Speed ratings in a void without time

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

"something can be both a plot convenience and an outlier at the same time."

Could you elaborate on that? I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Reppu Existing before the universe is an example. You existed before space and time or simultaneously spawned with them.

You can also be independent of the temporality, meaning you just have a nature different to space and time. Your speed therefore, cannot be measured by it.

 

[Antvasima]

I just mean that it is a plot convenience per definition, but that such an extreme irregularity would also have to be counted as an outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

I have now edited the speed page:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Speed&diff=1005415&oldid=885656

 

[Antvasima]

• Sonic the Hedgehog (Game Character)
• GCat
• Becquerel
• Claude Triello
• The Elder Gods
• Spaw and Hell Kings (i.e. Zera (Image Comics))
• Erazor Djin
• Atlach-Nacha
• Kayto Shields
• Asaga
• Alice Sunrider

So, is anybody willing to help out by adjusting the above profiles?

 

[Promestein]

I'll get to them.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the help.

 

[Promestein]

I've fixed all the ones that weren't already fixed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks again.

 

[Antvasima]

I have now been told that some profile pages also list characters as having immeasurable speed for moving in erased time.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/581689

This would obviously be even more exaggersted than listing them with infinite speed.

As such, I would appreciate help with finding, listing, and adjusting such profiles. Thank you.

 

[Reppuzan]

Before I start making the list, I would like to ask a question.

Would being a higher-dimensional being (i.e. 6-Dimensional and above) automatically qualify you for Immeasurable speed? It seems that a lot of profiles are Immeasurable for this reason.

 

[Antvasima]

I am uncertain, but I think that we have previously treated it that way.

However, The living tribunal1 has suggested some modifications to this rating that have been accepted by DarkLK. That discussion, and possible revision, will have to wait for a while as of yet though.

Currently, the only character profiles that are relevant are the ones that are rated as immeasurable solely for venturing outside of regular universal timespace, or being able to move after it has been destroyed.

Also, thank you for the help.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'll be list any Immeasurable who seems to be lacking justifications in general.

• Asriel Dreemurr
• Bedlam Spirits
• Bilious Slick
• Flowey
• Gods of Ragnarok
• God (Saint Seiya)
• Hermaeus Mora
• Lavos
• Mammoth Mogul (Archie Pre-Genesis Wave)
• Mister Mxyzptlk
• Rex Salazar
• SCP-001 (Kate McTriss's Proposal)
• Tails (Archie Pre-Genesis Wave)
• Tamamo-No-Mae (Anime)
• The Arise
• The Evil Entity
• The Player (Undertale)
• Time Eater
• Tokiha Misa
• Ulmo
• Yusha

 

[Sera_EX]

Shouldn't immeasurable be part of the "variable tier" like omnipresence?

 

[Ryukama]

@Reppuzan Saint Seiya's God is Immeasurable powerscaling to an entity that transcends the entirety of space-time and dwarfs Tier 2s as they do regular humans. His rating is fine in my opinion.

As is Mxyzptlk's, since he's a 5th dimensional being.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lavos is scaled from Serge (Chrono Cross) and the Chrono Cross and Trigger in general.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Clarification for some.

The Undertale god tiers are immeasurable for transcending the basic flow of space-time.

Bilious Slick is literally a cluster of timelines.

Ulmo is a Vala, just like Morgoth.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

They transcended it?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ryukama

Then that should be specified on his profile and not left blank.

It's also stated on our speed rating system that being higher-dimensional =/= to Immeasurable speed.

@The real cal howard

That also needs to be specified on his profile rather than saying "Comparable to the Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross" with no links.

 

[Sera_EX]

Ok, now I'm getting confused. Wouldn't that be infinite speed?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

They transcended it?

The basic flow of time? Yes. Chara became a single omnipresent entity across multiple timelines. Omega Flowey and Frisk fought across multiple SAVE files, and Asriel wiped the current timeline just as a casual attack against Frisk.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I had no questions about Chara. He's good where he is. But I don't think the latter two are actual speed feats, or signs of transcendence. Please forgive me if I'm wrong, my friend.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Being able to wipe out the entire timeline you're in and being completely unaffected despite the fact you originated from that timeline is definitely a sign of transcendence. Remember, Asriel didn't actually expect Frisk to still exist after that.

Flowey's is less obvious, but he is creating timelines after effectively ripping the old one apart. Fighting freely between these isn't purely speed based (as in, he doesn't do this by "going fast" as opposed to using his control of time), but it is a demonstration of speed beyond normal constraints of time, if that makes sense.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Flowey is far above Chara, he should scale anyway.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Saik. Zeno is far above Zamasu. Doesn't make him omnipresent, or even 4-D.

That's acausality, Azzy. Otherwise, and I'm gonna use Zeno as an example again, Zeno would be immeasurable. Though I'm confused on the second one (the Flowey related one). That may just be me being not as familiar with that kind of stuff.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's acausality, Azzy. Otherwise, and I'm gonna use Zeno as an example again, Zeno would be immeasurable. Though I'm confused on the second one (the Flowey related one). That may just be me being not as familiar with that kind of stuff.

Yes, and he was acausal because he had transcended the timeline as a whole. Flowey never said "I want seven human SOULs so I can be acausal and just that". He said things like he wanted to "become GOD" and "gain complete control of the timeline". The acausality is a sign of his transcendence, not the opposite of it.

For the Flowey thing, think of it like this; I can "blitz" the fastest 2-D character. I can't do this because I'm particularly fast, or because I used my speed on its own to transcend dimensions. I just automatically have the inherent advantage of having another axis of movement, which is related to my speed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'll agree to the second part, as that makes sense to me. But the first part is definitely a matter of AP. Time Trapper and Dialga both have complete control of the timeline and they're infinite

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Restricted Dialga is literally universal time. It's infinite because its speed can be whatever it wants, but it is still shown to be limited to traditional speed and time (which makes sense). Though an argument can be made for it being immeasurable, but that involves some assumed PIS and things that aren't shown.

Time Trapper is an actual timeline, and is Nigh-Omnipresent last I checked.

 

[Ryukama]

@Reppuzan the profile directly says that God scales to Chronos and links to the profile. So I think the profile is fine. Any stats Chronos has logically apply to God as well.

Also I'm fairly sure 5-D Imps like Mxyzptlk do transcend the lower dimensional world's timeline.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Azzy, maybe it was SBP I was thinking of? Regardless, you proved your point.

Though, Dialga's heartbeat alone is universal time.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, as I alluded to, eventually there will likely be a revision of the immeasurable speed rating to being temporally multi-dimensional instead, which may be easier to classify.

However, all that is relevant for this discussion is that I have been told that certain characters have been rated as immeasurable for moving in erased time.

Hence, we need to identify those profiles, but that is also it for the moment.