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I am able to remove all the ratings that I have access to and replace them with Unknown.Antvasima said:
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Or content modsAntvasima said:
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I Believe that's everything(at least for profiles that are accessible to me.)
Now I feel like we should discuss who else should keep or lose the infinite rating.
For example @Dinorangerblack mention the sinnoh legendaries. Should they keep their infinite rating, I'm not to keen on Pokemon to have an opinion. Whichever is the answer will also affect Elder Tita as his reasoning is the same as theirs.
Edit: Nevermind after looking at the sinnoh trios infinite reasoning I also agree it should be removed. However the elder Titan and Chaos Knight one is up for debate still.
Now I feel like we should discuss who else should keep or lose the infinite rating.
For example @Dinorangerblack mention the sinnoh legendaries. Should they keep their infinite rating, I'm not to keen on Pokemon to have an opinion. Whichever is the answer will also affect Elder Tita as his reasoning is the same as theirs.
Edit: Nevermind after looking at the sinnoh trios infinite reasoning I also agree it should be removed. However the elder Titan and Chaos Knight one is up for debate still.
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About Dormammu and Zera
Dormammu literally predates the concept of time, and exists outside of it.
It's also implied that he's Omnipresent within the Dark Dimension.
As for Zera, Hell Kings are also outside time, and Zera is the most powerful being in creation so I scaled her from them.
Dormammu literally predates the concept of time, and exists outside of it.
It's also implied that he's Omnipresent within the Dark Dimension.
As for Zera, Hell Kings are also outside time, and Zera is the most powerful being in creation so I scaled her from them.
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However, if Spawn is able to keep up with the hell kings and Zera, and he has never demonstrated anywhere near such extreme speed in practice, it nevertheless seems uncertain to scale from this.
I am also not sure about Dormammu, unless he demonstrated infinite speed for practical applications. Listing him as Omnipresent should be fine though.
I am also not sure about Dormammu, unless he demonstrated infinite speed for practical applications. Listing him as Omnipresent should be fine though.
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My thing is...this is the same as if a 3-D character was put into a higher-dimensional space. Let's say you can throw a baseball in a 7-D space. Does that baseball get immeasurable speed because it is traveling in a higher dimensional space? No. It would not travel at the same speed as a 7-dimensional object. If a 3-D (4-D timespace) object is put into an area that lacks any form of linear time, do they get infinite speed? No. It is still an object that "moves" through a temporal dimension (and thus within that universe's temporality), it's just that it now is within a space where it is not moving through a temporal dimension (and thus outside that universe's temporality). Even if this is shown consistently, moving in a void should not warrant infinite speed, unless the character:
1. Moves in a void regularly (like if they normally reside in a void.)
2. Is a character completely independent of the universe's timespace.
3. Possesses Hax.
I can see why someone would reason that if the feat is consistent, it should be use, but what if we have an Sub Relativistic character normally but this character can also move in a void. Are they Sub Relativistic or Infinite? Well, that's a big jump in speed if we assume the latter, when the former is more consistent, but infinite speed is the same as immeasurable in relation to how any character can have it temporarily, even consistently so, depending on the circumstances. The individual laws that govern that verse should also be reviewed in relation to the feat.
1. Moves in a void regularly (like if they normally reside in a void.)
2. Is a character completely independent of the universe's timespace.
3. Possesses Hax.
I can see why someone would reason that if the feat is consistent, it should be use, but what if we have an Sub Relativistic character normally but this character can also move in a void. Are they Sub Relativistic or Infinite? Well, that's a big jump in speed if we assume the latter, when the former is more consistent, but infinite speed is the same as immeasurable in relation to how any character can have it temporarily, even consistently so, depending on the circumstances. The individual laws that govern that verse should also be reviewed in relation to the feat.
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Well from what I know the Creation Trio would likely keep Infinite Speed. Or get bumped to Immeasurable or something. Not really good on this infinite speed stuff. Darkaine already said the other ones as well. Most SMT characters Infinite and beyond are most likely fine as well.
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I will actually make a thread for Elysium's attack. For now I will remove it because her attacks is an attack that attacks instantaneously regardless of where the opponent is. But it could also be just a really fast invisible projectile.
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The creation trio would fall under, living in a void so they would still keep it.
Since Zeno will be downgraded i'll do a calc for his speed.
Since Zeno will be downgraded i'll do a calc for his speed.
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Spawn Speed is kinda nonsense, I'll admit. I suppose downgrading everyone but the Tier 2s to FTL or so would make more sense.
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If I remember correctly, an angel flew across the universe, although no timeframe was given.
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sounds ok to meAntvasima said:
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I can see all the points people have brought up regarding this potential issue. And I'm not necessarily opposed to downgrading a lot of characters if we agree with this new rule. Nor would I mind if we deem these sorts of feats unquantifiable hax all together.
However if we're going to define being able to "regularly move within a void" and "being independant from the universe's space time" as still being infinite speed, then I don't see why Dimentio should have his rating changed.
Him being able to move within the void is a huge part of his entire plan, since he intends to destroy all worlds and create "perfect new" timelines. Not just one obscure scene of him walking in a void, his entire goal as a villain kinda relies on this ability.
He is also clearly independent of the universe's spacetime, as the destruction of all worlds, timelines, dimentions within the Marioverse will not damage him. And as Count Bleck once said earlier in the game, The Void will reduce to the world to not just destruction but as if it never existed to begin with. Dimentio isn't bound to his universe's spacetime.
Now I don't have an issue if others disagree with this. But I personally think Dimentio might still meet the requirements that it seems people have now brought up.
However if we're going to define being able to "regularly move within a void" and "being independant from the universe's space time" as still being infinite speed, then I don't see why Dimentio should have his rating changed.
Him being able to move within the void is a huge part of his entire plan, since he intends to destroy all worlds and create "perfect new" timelines. Not just one obscure scene of him walking in a void, his entire goal as a villain kinda relies on this ability.
He is also clearly independent of the universe's spacetime, as the destruction of all worlds, timelines, dimentions within the Marioverse will not damage him. And as Count Bleck once said earlier in the game, The Void will reduce to the world to not just destruction but as if it never existed to begin with. Dimentio isn't bound to his universe's spacetime.
Now I don't have an issue if others disagree with this. But I personally think Dimentio might still meet the requirements that it seems people have now brought up.
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Absolutely. Dimentio's speed would remain, and my personal Nintendo expert says the same.
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Well, there is still the issue of potential massive contradictions with actual speed displays. Perhaps we should go with my original suggestions instead after all? Othervise we will still encourage severe abuse of the rating.
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I don't mind Dimentio getting downgraded because of this at all. I just feel if this is the new standard he still fits under it. Again I'm even fine with this nature of things being deemed unquantifiable all together. It's whatever the majority of staff decide.
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@Ant I would rather further discuss about Super Dimentio's condition before deciding wether to remove it or not. I was actually supportive of the downgrade since I brought the issue up earlier but after what Ryu stated, it seems to make sense to a certian degree and I'm starting to have second thoughts. Plus, he only has a single game debut, so he has no future or previous games to contradict his abilities. However, I would still have Paper Mario downgraded. Sorry but it's hard for me to accept it and I was never accepted it in the first place, Pure Hearts or not.
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If Dimentio keeps his rating there is no reason Paper Mario shouldn't. He couldn't have defeated him if he were literally infinitely slower. And like Dimentio has a single debut with no other appearances to contradict, Mario amped by Pure Hearts is a one time form with nothing else to contradict. Why is he even 2-B to begin with if we're not going to scale him to Dimento?
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Wait I got a question: Goku, Trunks and Vegeta can move in a void, previously we discounted it because it would be an outlier but now we consider it hax so in this case can it be added to their powers and abilities section?
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how about making moving in a void unknown unless the same character has other legitimately infinite speed feats (like moving in 0 seconds)?
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@Ryu
It's really more of the notion on how logical it is. Dimentio's powers are based around dimenision manipulation, fused with the true host of the Chaos Heart in the end of the game, and is hinted to be an Ancient and the creator of the Dark Prognocticus. It sorta makes him somewhat believable to give him the rating.
Mario....isn't any of this. The closest thing he has is the games gimmick to flip btw 2D and 3D but it's treated more of a theme due to the paper artstyle rather than a concept.
It's really more of the notion on how logical it is. Dimentio's powers are based around dimenision manipulation, fused with the true host of the Chaos Heart in the end of the game, and is hinted to be an Ancient and the creator of the Dark Prognocticus. It sorta makes him somewhat believable to give him the rating.
Mario....isn't any of this. The closest thing he has is the games gimmick to flip btw 2D and 3D but it's treated more of a theme due to the paper artstyle rather than a concept.
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Perhaps Dimentio is Infinite Speed, but we need a better reasoning.
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Logically Mario would never have been able to defeat Dimentio if he was infinitely slower. It makes no sense to only powerscale their AP and not their speed from the same fight they had. Pure Hearts Paper Mario again is also a new form with no other showings to contradict this new level of power from his amp. You can't just not powerscale him to someone he defeated because it sounds weird to you. It's like me saying I don't like the idea Hit being MFTL+ so I'm only rating him 3-A scaling to Goku's AP and not his speed.
If we deem moving in a void to be unquantifiable hax which I'm okay with, then yeah Dimentio can have the ability and not Mario. But if we rate Dimentio's whole speed as infinite, then logically Mario has to scale to that.
If we deem moving in a void to be unquantifiable hax which I'm okay with, then yeah Dimentio can have the ability and not Mario. But if we rate Dimentio's whole speed as infinite, then logically Mario has to scale to that.
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Ok then, I believe it will make much more sense if we deem the ability as a hax on Dimentio's part.
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I thought about it more; it's hard to judge GER's speed since it only appeared once, though its speed rating is 'NONE', so who knows. Unknown may be best there.
The Creation Trio should stay Infinite speed. So should the Shadow Men. As mentioned, the Creation Trio exist in a void. The Shadow Men do too.
Not much else to say here, I guess; I commented on what I know, and everything else seems pretty fine as far as I know.
The Creation Trio should stay Infinite speed. So should the Shadow Men. As mentioned, the Creation Trio exist in a void. The Shadow Men do too.
Not much else to say here, I guess; I commented on what I know, and everything else seems pretty fine as far as I know.
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Even going with the Dimentio example seen above, I'm still leaning towards this being a hax-type ability.
Take Dormammu (MCU) as an example. He resides outside of time in his own dimension. Infinite/Immeasurable speed. However once Doctor Strange introduces the concept of time there he gets downgraded to a more human level.
Same concept. A character can move that quickly when in a void, but outside of the void they are still constrained by time.
Take Dormammu (MCU) as an example. He resides outside of time in his own dimension. Infinite/Immeasurable speed. However once Doctor Strange introduces the concept of time there he gets downgraded to a more human level.
Same concept. A character can move that quickly when in a void, but outside of the void they are still constrained by time.
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@Xcano I see what you mean and like I've said multiple times I'm fine with this being considered hax. I was just saying that the standards Sera brought up for this to be considered infinite speed still apply to Dimentio. If we're not considering said conditions infinite speed I'm perfectly fine with a downgrade.
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I'm lost, now. Also, as I said above, the idea of Piccolo or Meta Knight lolblitzing Dialga seems very off.
I know that Dialga will keep infinite, but it's an example.
I know that Dialga will keep infinite, but it's an example.
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What kind of hax would this be called?
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Just "being able to move in a void". I agree with Xcano.
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GER's speed is unquestionbly infinite.
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