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RoF?
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Sonicverse 4-A Bracket Round 13: Super Shadow VS Dr. Eggman (CONCLUDED)
Gilad_Hyperstar
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The fact that even Eggman helps Sonic more than Vegeta helps Goku is really saying something (and don't mention Vegito or Gogeta since Goku basically have to play the card of "either we do that or everyone dies")
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Revival/Resurrection of Frieza
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Me using? I used the Maria Card and you the time when Shadow didn't have his memories as evidence the Maria/Gerald card wouldn't work
How often has Eggman ever lied to Shadow? None at all?
So... what are you using in this example? Sonic's goal is always running to the end of the stage. Are you claiming every Sonic game, Sonic doesn't fight a single enemy?
He had to have built them and know the machines he'll be using for a vs match
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Again, Eggman's army would slow him down like Super Sonic. Sonic's goal is always reaching the end of the stage in every game, yet Sonic Unleashed cutscene has him taking out ships while chasing Eggman, proving attacking Robots while going through stages isn't game mechanics.
Yes, because Shadow has no compassion for anyone, including his last living relative (Sarcasm)
Eggman knows better due to doing research like making the Shadow Androids. ... Shadow? Not enough evidence of what Shadow knows better about Eggman. Also, Eggman has a lot more data on Shadow since SA2
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I honestly see Shadow not falling for the CEC due to Eggman taking advantage of his compassion, being out-of-character for Shadow to get a W for this match up.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,198
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Well, I'll hold off the votes for now.
I'll remove all of them for now. When you two can summerize the arguments for Shadow and Eggman clearly, then please post them here
I'll remove all of them for now. When you two can summerize the arguments for Shadow and Eggman clearly, then please post them here
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I'll wait for User. To respond to my points and/or summarizing the match 1st then I'll go.
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He doesn't see Colors as a major threat, correct, and he was correct
Ressurection of F
Yeah, because if doesn't work when he is easily influenced it isn't working now
He literally lied about him being an android, something you agreed
No, I am saying Shadow is focusing on his goals
He already built them, we treat as if he never lost them
Sonic isn't Shadow, and even then Chaos Blast would wipe them out in one shot
Yes, why would he care about Eggman when he killed his entire ******* race my man?
Yet in the same game Shadow can literally kill him in all endings, you are overhyping Eggman into an almost fanfiction version of him, while ignoring that for Shadow, basically you are highballing him but lowballing the hedgehog
You shouldn't remove the votes, they are still valid, we went through this in other threads, someone having an different opinion is not enough to make votes invalid, unless he can bring something that is objectively correct that debunks my reasoning, they shouldn't be removed, and he hasn't
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But if you are removing votes, I am only making my summary tommorow, this has wasted enough of my time
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Hm....................................... . ... rude
Those votes were opinions that first came into the thread were not supported by any facts. I've actually taken the time to support my "different opinion" through canon material
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Like, objectively, Shadow is always willing to hear what Eggman has to say, so l
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Shadow's won game tends to differ, he tries to manipulate him into being his android so he can follow him
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Which Eggman, unprovoked by Shadow, comes across and tells Shadow the truth. Didn't have to, didn't give Eggman any advantage what so ever, but he did. Thats the objective part of Dr. Eggman tending to be more honest with Shadow than any other character.
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When he is about to die from his pov
BlastX
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I still don't buy Shadow getting trapped by the CEC since all he needs to do to get out of it is Chaos Control to teleport or stop time while the machine is activating or even as Eggman is about to press the button, which he is very likely to do since it's an objective fact he spams Chaos Contol unlike Sonic.
Pulling the Maria/Gerald card at best would only distract him for a few seconds and that's enough to still escape, even then just seeing Eggman activating the button should snap him out of it and get him to focus.
That's assuming it even distracts him as he already got over his past in his game and Battle, heck Shadow may get pissed that he brings up the Maria/Gerald card since they were good people who strived to help while Eggman is being Eggman and pretty much spitting on their wishes.
Also, this assumes Shadow can't manipulate Eggman himself, in SA2 he tricked him to get the Chaos Emerald and then end up destroying the world while making Eggman believe he would conquer him, not to mention Shadow had already been manipulated by other people (Black Doom and Gerald) and as shown in 06 he learned from his mistakes and told Mephiles to **** off when he tried the same.
Pulling the Maria/Gerald card at best would only distract him for a few seconds and that's enough to still escape, even then just seeing Eggman activating the button should snap him out of it and get him to focus.
That's assuming it even distracts him as he already got over his past in his game and Battle, heck Shadow may get pissed that he brings up the Maria/Gerald card since they were good people who strived to help while Eggman is being Eggman and pretty much spitting on their wishes.
Also, this assumes Shadow can't manipulate Eggman himself, in SA2 he tricked him to get the Chaos Emerald and then end up destroying the world while making Eggman believe he would conquer him, not to mention Shadow had already been manipulated by other people (Black Doom and Gerald) and as shown in 06 he learned from his mistakes and told Mephiles to **** off when he tried the same.
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Sonic can teleport as well, possibly exactly like Shadow since all Sonic needed to learn how to use Chaos Control in the first place was seeing Shadow do it once. Sonic was not able to while CEC was holding him, even while he was in pain as Super Sonic. Shadow teleporting out of the CEC is a mute point.
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Or Sonic running away as the machine is activating (these are becoming repeated points)
And its an objective fact Sonic spams running
Like Eggman playing Sonic's ego
Sonic was looking straight at Eggman the entire time
Why would Eggman "spitting on their wishes" matter to Shadow, since Shadow has been letting Eggman do that for multiple games?
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Mephiles said "Destory all humans" like Black Doom's "Destroy all humans". That is not evidence of Shadow being unable to be manipulated like "Shadow! Spare me. You and I are the only family we have. I-I can try to be better."
Sonic: Multiple times dealing with Dr. Eggman and saving the world more than anyone else in cast drops his guard to Dr. Eggman's manipulation
Shadow: Stronger family connections, generally on friendlier terms with Eggman than Sonic (SA2, Sonic Rival, always refer to Eggman in a respectful manner DOCTOR) and less experience with Eggman overall compare to Sonic (Shadow fans: Shadow is incorruptible!!)
Shadow had something Eggman wanted and Eggman knew Shadow had it, being Gerald creation. If that's Shadow's only manipulation feat, having something Eggman wanted, compare to Eggman who can just pull the sympathy card and generally have more experience manipulating and in good favors with Shadow...
That argument not impressive, or rather, not in Shadow's favor
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BlastX
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Ok stop acting like Sonic and Shadow would do the same thing in the exact same situation, the two act and use their powers differently.
And no, Sonic didn't use the Chaos Control to escape because he rarely uses it, not a problem with Shadow cause it's in character for him to use it
And no, Sonic didn't use the Chaos Control to escape because he rarely uses it, not a problem with Shadow cause it's in character for him to use it
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I'm not saying they are. But neither one of them is shown to be smarter than the other.
Using power differently isn't the same as simply using them. Sonic spams running and he tried, as Super Sonic. What is supporting Shadow succeeding where Sonic failed? Chaos Control? He doesn't spam that all the time in cutscenes, like when Rouge was falling in Sonic 06 and Shadow ran and hopped to save her, not teleport.
That argument, again, is mute by 2 things:
1. When Sonic was about to die in SA2, Sonic used Chaos Control when given the chance.
The next time Sonic was in a "I'm about to die" situation would be... Heroes? no... Shadow the Hedgehog? no... the endings can't be used as they are non-canon since they were all on the verge of death with no Chaos Energy when Shadow defeated them and appear just fine in the True Ending... Sonic 06? no... Mephiles jumped Sonic... Unleashed? no... Eggman powernulled Sonic and Sonic was never in any danger against Dark Gaia... Sonic Colors? no, Sonic had that covered... Sonic Generation? no, Sonic wasn't in an "I'm about to die and need to teleport away" moment...
(I got nothing. I can't recall another situation of Sonic's "I'm about to die" moment since SA2, maybe Unleashed but Eggman was powernulling him)
2. CEC Powernulls Chaos Energy
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I feel like you are trying to hard to pass that interpretation that Shadow would act the same way as Sonic would, or that Eggman would trick him as such, but you still haven't even given a reason on how Eggman would even lure Shadow into the room when he can teleport to him, or use Chaos Blast to AoE, or Chaos Spear for range, two things that Sonic doesn't use since he would rather boost into someone. Plus Kousoku is right that Shadow uses Chaos Control more in character, you keep forgetting that Sonic dropped his guard, also Shadow was there for Colors when Eggman said to the entire planet he was good, making him fall for his tricks far less likely now
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I change my vote to Eggman, I completely forgot about the Phantom Ruby being a thing, all Eggman has to do is make an illusion of the area to lure Shadow in the CEC, which would be GG for him
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Ok. Counted
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Change my vote to eggman
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Bump
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Grace is over and Shadow won
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Gilad_Hyperstar
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Hey, I just want the bracket to continue
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I know. My bad, Gilad
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****** (eggman) fra
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