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Shadow gets Power nulled to base form, Shadow's Inhibitors aren't 4-A. Since Eggman is using the Chaos Energy Cannon as a strategy, he'd likely keep more 4-A mechs around for after Shadow gets Power nulled.
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Sonicverse 4-A Bracket Round 13: Super Shadow VS Dr. Eggman (CONCLUDED)
Shadow gets Power nulled to base form, Shadow's Inhibitors aren't 4-A. Since Eggman is using the Chaos Energy Cannon as a strategy, he'd likely keep more 4-A mechs around for after Shadow gets Power nulled.
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Shadow doesn't really care about his past nowadays
More like at the end of his game as well, at least the true ending
That is a good point, he just has to listen to Eggman, however you are forgetting two key details, first that Eggman has to drag Shadow to the chamber, which is hard to do when he can teleport and uses it in character, two that he could probably notice Eggman moving, since he wouldn't be as distracted as Sonic
That could work, if only Eggman didn't have to drag Shadow inside the chamber, which I don't see how he would when he could just teleport, or use Chaos Spear
Gilad_Hyperstar
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If so, then which votes to keep?
ShakeResounding
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Remove the votes? Not sure about that one, chief.
You are REALLY relying in the Chaos Energy Cannon when it was a one-off thing that has yet to be utilized ever again by Eggman. Eggman may be a cunning and brilliant scientific mind, yes, but there's a reason he always loses at the end of the day. Because he isn't efficient with all of the equipment at his disposal. The fatal flaw of villains like him, and the exact thing that'll be his downfall again in a matchup like this. Against someone who can be just as cunning in combat, if not way MORE, as he.
You are REALLY relying in the Chaos Energy Cannon when it was a one-off thing that has yet to be utilized ever again by Eggman. Eggman may be a cunning and brilliant scientific mind, yes, but there's a reason he always loses at the end of the day. Because he isn't efficient with all of the equipment at his disposal. The fatal flaw of villains like him, and the exact thing that'll be his downfall again in a matchup like this. Against someone who can be just as cunning in combat, if not way MORE, as he.
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There isn't evidence Shadow has complete indifference to his past. Eggman only needs a moment.
Cutscene?
Tricking Shadow to follow Eggman to the chamber. Shadow knows Eggman but usually does not see him as a threat. Eggman usually has an army flying around and Shadow is a video game character. Like SA2, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, they tend to focus on obstacles thrown at them first and then deal with Dr. Eggman.
Yeah, but Sonic and Shadow tend to focus on Dr. Eggman's army first then deal with him.
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This is a vs debate at the end of the day. We can only use the Chaos Energy Cannon as Dr. Eggman used it in canon.
BlastX
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I'm not sure how the Chaos Energy Cannon will work on Shadow given that Shadow has enough time to stop time and destroy it or kill Eggy given that it doesn't activate it's suppression powers right away (Sonic had enough time after it activated to look around surprised and then try to run away, Shadow probably wouldn't make the same mistake).
I doubt Shadow would be phased by his past anymore for that card to work.
I doubt Shadow would be phased by his past anymore for that card to work.
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1. Eggman's army, as Sonic and Shadow deals with them first always in canon
2. Gerald/Maria Card, as argued above, to slow Shadow's character down to activate it
3. Chaos Energy Cannon work on Sonic, making him unable to do anything to stop it
Dr. Eggman: "cough Before I go, there is something about Maria I want you to know-" Shadow karate chops Eggman mid sentence because he is the baddest edge lord you have ever seen!!
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Literally the end of his game, Shadow literally throwns a photo of Maria away
Shadow kills Eggman in 3/4 of his games endings, he tries to destroy Eggman's train in 06, he absolutely knows he is a threat, plus Shadow would tell that Eggman is making him go somewhere, he is already experienced that in 06:
Radical Train has a word for you:
BlastX
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Haven't you thought that Shadow would not be fooled by it because he knows Eggman is using it to save his own skin.
He knows Eggman is a piece of shit.
Also you forgot to adress the power null takes a few seconds to activate, which means Shadow can just stop time and **** that whole plan.
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Proof Shadow remembered his past while Dr. Eggman used the Gerald Card? That cutscene came off as Shadow hearing about his past and coming a conclusion.
WAIT WAIT WAIT!! USER!!
That Last Story cutscene had a "I created you" Dr. Eggman line! The Neutral Ending is more canon over Dr. Eggman saying "Gerald created him"
What? That cutscene does not show Dr. Eggman attempting to trick Shadow? Am I missing something in there?
Vs.... All the other many times?
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Headcanon? Shadow the Hedgehog Game doesn't support not standing around during "saving skin tactic"?
Meaning?
By that logic, Sonic, the fastest thing alive, shouldn't have been caught by it
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What stops Shadow from just thinking and teleporting out of the Chaos Energy Cannon before it drains him? Stopping time also works.
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"What stops Sonic from just running/flying out of the Chaos Energy Cannon before it drains him?"
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The fact that he's incredibly cocky and loves to smack talk.
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Yes, because thats what Sonic did while he stared at Eggman.
Maria/Gerald card. Since Shadow has worked with Metal under Eggman's direction (Sonic Rivals), he is up for giving Eggman the benefit of the doubt
BlastX
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The fact he stood there trash talking and then when the machine was revealing itself he stood there looking around like a moron and only ran at the last second.
Shadow wouldn't do those same mistakes.
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You are not giving me any reasoning or canon events to support that.
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Shadow isn’t gonna stand there shit talking Eggman all day.
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Eggman used his begging for Sonic that he'll be good to play on Sonic's ego
Maria/Gerald card plays on Shadow's heart and thinking "This is Eggman... the only living relative I have left. I left my past behind but the present is right before me"
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Then Battle Shadow doesn't know about his past either, only the things he researched about and was told then. Yeah, I know, that's why Eggman says he lied in the Devil Doom fight
Shadow knew that Eggman was looking for him and wanted to find him, that was my point
What other times? Heroes, when Rouge was the leader? His game when Eggman wasn't the focus (and even then when he does wants Eggman he goes straight at him in Lava Shelter)? 06, which is what I showed? The rivals games, where he is solving a mystery?
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I still don't see how Eggman, without prep, would make Shadow follow him since he can either use Chaos Spear or teleport to him
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Choose to follow her directions. When they had the Egg Pawns boss battles, Eggman(Metal) was hovering right over there yet Shadow choose to focus on the Egg Pawns.
Also, no SA2 mentions?
But, you said Battle Shadow knew about his past, so that a mute point. The point is, that ending of Eggman using the Gerald card has no evidence of being canon, when the other Eggman ending follow... close to the true canon of events.
Eggman was looking for Mephiles and you said
in response to:
How does "Looking for Mephiles" = "Tricking Shadow"?
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That's because in Heroes he followed Rouge because she would lead him to his past, it doesn't really count nowdays. I didn't mention SA2 because he never fought Eggman in that game.
The ending are what if scenarios, they simply point us what could have happened, this doesn't help your point bro, he would just use it in here then, and receive the same treatment
My bad on the whole 06 point there, I confused myself with the scene in Sonic's story, but I still stand Eggman without prep wouldn't trick Shadow
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The reasoning for the current FRA's is:
1. Super Shadow scaling to Super Sonic so Super Shadow just claps
2. Shadow's intelligence is better than Sonic's and that Shadow knows the limits of Dr. Eggman
1. Super Shadow scaling to Super Sonic so Super Shadow just claps
2. Shadow's intelligence is better than Sonic's and that Shadow knows the limits of Dr. Eggman
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My reasoning is that Shadow is superior to most of his machines, and the one at his level are easily beaten, Shadow resists a lot of hax and is prone to using them more than Eggman, the CEC needs way too many steps to be used and unlike Knuckles Shadow is less likely to fall for it
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Only if you can prove Shadow had his memories back during the what if sencario and even then, the Maria card and making up a sob story. It worked for the General of G.U.N. on Shadow.
Also, evidence Shadow didn't remember his past is during the General scene, before facing Eggman and his Gerald Card
SA2 applies to Shadow dealing with random Robots and imperfect Chaos copies Shadow deals with on the side as he heads off towards his goal
I wanted to clear that point up before moving on. Sorry to call you out like that.
Technically, with how we set up with Eggman's profile having all his equipment as standard equipment, he is always in post-prep phase. Actually, Eggman having mulpite self-made mechs, is post Prep.
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Wait, Knuckles had nothing to do with CEC. Scale Sonic
And Eggman pulled it off with Sonic, his arch-enemy. Dr. Eggman should still have the data Gerald made in his arsenal, while Shadow was in his egg containment, which is how he began attempting to create Shadow Androids
This is all good for cross vs debating with other franchise, but inverse matches and with both oppentents knowing each other beforehand, we would need to analyze their relation in canon. Shadow has been willing to work with Eggman in multiple games and Eggman tends to betray those he works with like Knuckles. Knuckles is not that dumb and Knuckles is generally less willing to work with Eggman post-Sonic Adventure 1, unlike Shadow
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What? Wouldn't he have his memories back make it easier for him to not be tricked? Plus you are using an example of when he didn't have his memories yet using it as a point when he has them? Comander Tower isn't Eggman, Shadow didn't knew him plus he wasn't lying
No? Shadow has 4 stages, in the Radical Highway he already had his goal (the emerald), in White Jungle ditto, he already had set the explosives, in Sky Rail his goal was just to follow the tornado, and in Final Chase it was to get to Sonic, your point is only valid to the latter
He has his equipment, but that doesn't mean he has prep time, simply that he just has them
Mentioned Knuckles because of the prior thread, even then Sonic fell because two things Shadow doesn't have as much, one he followed Eggman flying, something he wouldn't do, he would teleport, and 2 because of his compassion, by telling him he wouldn't be bad,
That only makes it easier for Eggman to pull it off, with someone he knows inside out versus a black hedgehog that tricked him in his first appearence
Except we aren't here to writte fanfiction
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The clip you showed doesn't offer anything new about how Shadow thinks of Eggman. He knows Eggman is dangerous from SA2 and Battle, but yet he still doesn't help Sonic in Sonic Colors to take him down, providing evidence that he doesn't see Dr. Eggman as that big of threat, like Sonic who stands around under a hidden CEC.
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I was mostly talking about the second mission, after the first, where they find Eggman's secret plans, he doesn't help Sonic because he feels he doesn't need to
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Well, in the 2nd mission, he gives Sonic info but still doesn't help Sonic fight Eggman like Vegeta did with Goku for Frieza
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Vegeta literally didn't fight Freeza together with Goku, in fact they never fight together, I don't see how this means he in general doesn't see him as a big threat, obviuosly in that game he doesn't, but this is far different from in general since in Forces he takes him seriously
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Sorry, I meant Majin Buu. Vegeta and Goku weren't friends against Frieza like they were for Majin Buu and Sonic and Shadow long before Sonic Colors.
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They also didn't fight against Kid Buu together at first, only Goku fighting him, plus I was talking about RoF
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Also, on that note, Shadow wanted to work with Sonic to defeat the Biolizard but not against Eggman in Sonic Colors. Current Shadow, from Sonic Battle, has all the memories from SA2. Shadow does not see Eggman as a major threat.
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