Sonic vs Alien X

[manu_zarri]

according with profiles:
Sonic Stamina: Extremely high (Sonic is capable of taking large amounts of punishment with only mild annoyances. Sonic also boasts vast endurance as, throughout the course of several hours, he was captured and beaten on more than one occasion, was being continuously hunted, and makes note that he's physically and mentally exhausted and can barely continue moving. Only after all of that, along with ultimately fighting to the death with his greatest nemesis, did he finally pass out due to exhaustion.) (also i togled the 2 limtless because i think they are refered for super sonic and ultra sonic)

Alien X Stamina: Unknown, likely Very High

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

and it's not like Sonic uses his equipment that much, well at least not to do too OP shit.

Sonic undeniably uses the shit out of Power Rings whenever he has them.

Also, both their stamina is rated at “Very High” so I’m not sure either than an advantage on that front.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Sonic FRA

 

[Greenshifter]

Sonic undeniably uses the shit out of Power Rings whenever he has them.

Ah my bad then.

As for Alien X’s stamina, Celestialsapiens can take eons to make even a single decision, if that scales to stamina then yeah...

 

[Greenshifter]

Sonic FRA

Based on who’s arguments and what wincon exactly?

 

[Planck69]

Ah my bad then.

As for Alien X’s stamina, Celestialsapiens can take eons to make even a single decision, if that scales to stamina then yeah...

It doesn't.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Sonic FRA

No one even voted Sonic yet. A couple of people just said he stomps.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I was just saying that Sonic wins

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Sonic:
+Immortality/Fate hax/Power Rings prevent his death
+Amps himself with Power Rings (AP/Dura are technically irrelevant on both sides but Sonic amping his speed means he can easily dodge all of AX’s attacks)
+Chaos Control would instantly beat AX via time stop, but this isn’t in-character

Alien X:
+Time Reversal
+Regen makes him unkillable
+Better stamina
-Sonic can come back from BFR with Chaos Control, Mind hax is resisted
-Time waves can debatably be dodged

 

[Greenshifter]

It doesn't.

Well in that case we'll have to make a few distinctions. Consciousnesses don't need rest to my knowledge, when you sleep your brain may be less active but your mind can conjure up the weirdest things in your dreams. So Bellicus and Serena would in fact have pretty much limitless stamina as the self-sustenance type 3 on his page implies. Meanwhile Ben is just his physical body in the pocket dimension, so he could get tired from controlling Alien X, however Ben obviously has great stamina from all his overnight exploits. Then you have Alien X's body's stamina, you have either the resilience to damage and the physical tiring of muscles, the former is probably no problem since Celestialsapiens have had their hand blown apart and got turned to shreds without showing an inch of pain. The latter is probably also no problem due to alien physiology, also due to regen and even if his body did get tired, he could basically time reverse himself to get back in peak condition.

Now because of this I think that Alien X actually edges out in the stamina department because without any hax being involved, Sonic would probably collapse from physical damage before Ben gets sleepy, with hax the fight only ends faster.

 

[Greenshifter]

Sonic:
+Immortality/Fate hax/Power Rings prevent his death
+Amps himself with Power Rings (AP/Dura are technically irrelevant on both sides but Sonic amping his speed means he can easily dodge all of AX’s attacks)
+Chaos Control would instantly beat AX via time stop, but this isn’t in-character

Alien X:
+Time Reversal
+Regen makes him unkillable
+Better stamina
-Sonic can come back from BFR with Chaos Control, Mind hax is resisted
-Time waves can debatably be dodged

Sonic also has some stuff with his power rings and 1 chaos emerald, the only thing I won't argue against (I think) of that though is BFR.
Does Chaos Control have a time limit? Alien X's can also stop time (and is probably a wincon as well since I don't think he has a time limit) since time reverse > time stop. Ben also uses time slow/stop/reverse when having access to aliens with said powers (Clockwork) such as when he slowed down time against the squid monster or when he time reversed and then stopped Mad Ben in time with a single time beam.

BFR to the Forge of Creation isn't that easy to get away from, people who have the range to get into the forge still can't access it. The chrono randomization barrier is still in the way. Either it prevents portals from reaching the forge or people who use portals end up BFR'd through time instead (only Paradox, people with the map of Infinity and Celestialsapiens themselves can access the forge). I assume the same applies to getting out since the barrier would still be in the way. Sonic however might be able to use Chaos Control to come back from temporal BFR.

Not only would Alien X have planetary range on his time abilities (lowballing it) based on almost saving the dinosaurs from extinction a few million years after the event. But AX can also duplicate and teleport all around Sonic or become really big to the point that Sonic can't dodge his time abilities anymore.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Chaos Control can freeze beings in time for at least five years (that’s how long King Shadow was frozen by it before being freed by an outside source). Also when has AX stopped time?

Chaos Energy has Multiversal+ range, infinitely greater than Celestialsapiens and Professor Paradox’s 2-B range. Sonic should be able to teleport back to the battlefield if AX pulls that. And yeah, Chaos Emeralds enable travel through time as well.

I’m still uncertain how AX’s time waves having that range or how in-character it is for him to use them, though I won’t contest this point since I don’t know everything about him.

Now that I think about it, if AX started screwing with time wouldn’t Sonic counter by trying to use his own time hax?

I will say AX’s cloning is admittedly a great advantage.

 

[Greenshifter]

Actually Alien X should be able to reverse time to undo the time stop due to his pocket dimension being unaffected and his power coming from within it.

1 or 2 chaos emeralds enable time travel?

Gwen also has enough range to get to the forge, the problem isn’t range, the problem is the barrier stopping portals from accessing it.

(also check my Clockwork argument above, still Ben so still in-character, also check the Discord)

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Isn’t AX baseline?

Yeah he is baseline very, very, very casually

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Actually what are Sonic wincons expect of his Fate hax (ignoring AX Acausality type 2 of course)?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Actually what are Sonic wincons expect of his Fate hax (ignoring AX Acausality type 2 of course)?

Sonic’s Fate hax affects Type 4s.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Sonic’s Fate hax affects Type 4s.

Okay and what about it's range? Since you need 2-B range to affect his Pocket universe

 

[Greenshifter]

It has enough range, fate hax doesn’t prevent temporary KO, incap or BFR though.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

It has enough range, fate hax doesn’t prevent temporary KO, incap or BFR though.

Okay and Is Sonic only baseline Low 2-C ?

 

[Greenshifter]

He scales a bit above baseline.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Fate hax has 2-A range.

Sonic starts out at only slightly higher than baseline but can exponentially boost his AP with Power Rings. which also grant him 2-A durability, so no one-shotting.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

He scales a bit above baseline.

Then Alien x "T" poses too hard to the point where the Universe get reset GG

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Sonic amps his durability with Power Rings to prevent himself from getting KO’d.

pic related

 

[Greenshifter]

@Blanco Sonic also has access to power rings and a chaos emeralds's (archie version) abilities, you can search their pages. Not all of them are in-character or applicable though.

 

[Greenshifter]

Then Alien x "T" poses too hard to the point where the Universe get reset GG

Universal resets don't work against him. You literally can't kill him. Only temporarily defeat him.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Universal resets don't work against him. You literally can't kill him. Only temporarily defeat him.

are we going by K.O and Death? or just Death?

 

[ElixirBlue]

It most certainly isn't, pretty sure Elixir will back me up on this.

I've just noticed this thread.

I'm on Sonic's side but I don't think it's a stomp, due to Greenshifter's approach against the FateHax. 1st however,

Actually Alien X should be able to reverse time to undo the time stop due to his pocket dimension being unaffected and his power coming from within it.

How does this work? Alien X abilities activate from him using it outside of the pocket dimension, doesn't it?

 

[Greenshifter]

His power when creating a space-time continuum comes from within. They can also use their powers when Ben is not transformed into Alien X and he’s just a stream of DNA on Primus (see scan where they’ve been debating to save the dinosaurs (which also implies his powers can affect the past which is another way to stop the time stop, by preventing it from happening in the first place) and other things years before Ben transformed into Alien X). So everything related to space-time manipulation and reality warping should be able to accomplished in the same way as him recreating the space-time continuum, with an energy wave (I’m not including other haxes since one could argue his DNA on Primus has to take a certain shape to for instance mindhax, which sounds nonsensical but whatever). And stopped time does not stop an energy wave that alters time, since you’re altering the thing that’s supposed to stop it.

Edit: They can also use their powers to accomplish stuff within the pocket dimension as well. Such as putting Ben on fire or creating a portal/viewing screen of sorts to see his friends. Might be useful information as well.

 

[Greenshifter]

“Type 2 is better than type 4 in the fact that it makes you immune to Fate and precognition for not existing in the future, type 4's can still be affected, they just run on a different / irregular system.”

Argument from Sonic vs Yhwach, doesn’t matter too much here but might as well discuss it here since I’m curious.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

We could have a debate if Sonic's FateHax would work on Type 2.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I’m a little lost atm

What are the current arguments?

 

[manu_zarri]

i don't think Type 2 > Type 4. because Type 4 is immunity to every possible change in causality and fate (past fate,present fate and future fate).

 

[Gohanblanco217]

i don't think Type 2 > Type 4. because Type 4 is immunity to every possible change in causality and fate (past fate,present fate and future fate).

Type 4 doesn't give you immunity to Causality manipulation (it gives you resistance only)

 

[manu_zarri]

Type 4 doesn't give you immunity to Causality manipulation (it gives you resistance only)

whatever it is:
Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality.

I think it's better because it cover you from attack by causes and effects by every time

 

[Greenshifter]

I’m a little lost atm

What are the current arguments?

For the match? I was waiting for you to tell me what Sonic can do with power rings and chaos emeralds to make life troublesome for AX (and what is in-character and what not). For acausality vs fate hax... I’m neutral so yeah (it doesn’t really matter for the match, but might be better to figure it out in a non-heated match like this one)

 

[ElixirBlue]

Obviously, BFR, but looking at this page, Sonic can also wish himself to another location, using the same method and power as BFR someone.

Sonic is aware of Nate Power Null/Stats Reduction of Ugly Naugus. Sonic, who uses Chaos Control from being aware Shadow is able to, tried it successfully in his first try.

 

[Greenshifter]

Are you arguing Sonic can BFR AX across the multiverse by wishing it, using a chaos emerald or power ring? And if so by a portal appearing or just instantaneous?

I have a bit of a problem with the power null on Naugus, on the scan itself it’s never shown that Naugus is power nulled, only BFR’d. So unless Naugus could have returned from the ZoS with his super form, I don’t think you can argue he got power nulled since we now know that super forms do have a time limit, of a few months give or take.

Power null/stats reduction doesn’t matter for AX though since his power is inside his pocket dimension which Sonic is unaware of.

Edit: also does Sonic need 1 or 2 emeralds to escape from temporal BFR?

 

[ElixirBlue]

using a chaos emerald or power ring? And if so by a portal appearing or just instantaneous?

Power Ring

Maybe a portal but Forced BFR. It drags the Opponent into another reality.

I have a bit of a problem with the power null on Naugus, on the scan itself it’s never shown that Naugus is power nulled

Had to have been Power Null. That was Ugly Naugus, one of 2 super forms on par with Ultra Sonic, along with Hyper Tails. Even in the middle of the fight, Naugus was making a portal into the Zone of Silence to swallow the main Zone/Universe. Naugus was BFR into the Zone of Silence but it wouldn't have stopped him if he was still Ugly Naugus.

also does Sonic need 1 or 2 emeralds to escape from temporal BFR?

What do you mean by “Temporal BFR”?

 

[Greenshifter]

Maybe a portal but Forced BFR. It drags the Opponent into another reality.

Thought based Teleportation + clones then.

Fair on powernull then. (Not on AX though)

That scan seems to be a bit more context dependent since they couldn’t even interact with stuff in the past so it seemed like they weren’t truly there right? But yes I meant getting BFR’d to the past or future, the only way to enter or exit the Forge of creation is via the chrono randomization barrier which BFR’s you through time, people with “baseline” portal creation/teleportation in Ben 10 can’t access it despite them having the range to do so most likely.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Thought based Teleportation + clones then.

You misunderstand. The Power Rings aren’t your traditional guns or weapons to simply be dodged and that’s it. They are Genies. Using a Power Ring is like making a wish. “No long wishes, Just go back now!”