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Classic Sonic
Classic Sonic's speed is listed here as FTL because of these reasons:However, as shown on the Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats page, the criteria is here as follows.
- Stated to be capable of outrunning lasers.
- Has reacted to and outsped lasers.
Based on the criteria, statements must say that the beam must be called lightspeed or light, or must act like light in the ways listed above.Most lasers in fiction are not real or provable as real. Often they are supernatural in nature and do not function anywhere close to how real light should. Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:
Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show a beam is NOT real light:
- The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
- The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
- The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
- It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
- It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera
- It is shown at different speeds in the same material.
- It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans.
- They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above.)
The "Light Speed" Statements
In Sonic Chaos, the lasers in Electric Egg Zone are not shown to fulfill these requirements and are not stated in the manual anywhere to be beams of light or moving at lightspeed.
- Stated to be capable of outrunning lasers.
"But what about the final boss? It's clearly called the Laser Walker and has refracting shots!"
The shots are quite literally called "bounce shots" in the manual, and they don't even act the same on the surface they bounce off of. This shouldn't qualify as a lightspeed laser based on what is required in the criteria.
I'll talk about both these calcs down below.
- Has reacted to and outsped lasers.
Truth Bullets' Calc
On this calc, four of these dodging feats are done in games from the Classic Era and all come out as Relativistic+.I personally don't see anything wrong with this calc blog, but if someone wants to recalc it again then I guess go ahead. Other than that this seems solid.
ShakeResounding's Calc
This calc though is what gets to me and I ask as to why it was approved at all.First of all, this screenshot is from Super Smash Bros. 4, a crossover game that's not even part of the franchise.
Second, it does not say anything about the laser beams moving at lightspeed or being made of light.
This calc should be removed because it relies off statements that are not in a mainline game.
These would fall under his other tiering that reads "At most Massively FTL+" though I don't know how credible the side missions in Sonic Generations are since it's more of an obstacle course like Stardust Speedway in Sonic CD rather than an actual running race.
- Can beat Modern Knuckles and Modern Amy in a race, able to gather Chao faster than Cream, and can dodge bombs from Rouge)
Modern Sonic
For Modern Sonic, there's a few things I'd like to change about his statements on the page.First, what the heck is "warp speed"? Is that supposed to be FTL?
And second, there's a statement made by Official Dreamcast Magazine that states that "both characters move faster than we've ever seen Sonic go before", so Adventure Era Sonic's speed is increased to Massively FTL+ via multiplying this with the Spin Dash calc. However, to me this isn't a reliable source of information because the way it's worded is clearly meant to be hyperbole in order to increase sales and it is not elaborated on anywhere else at all. It's the exact same way Sega was gassing Infinite up in promotional material for Sonic Forces as "Sonic's most powerful enemy yet" despite clearly not being comparable to other enemies in previous titles (This statement is not used for Infinite's profile at all by the way), so in my opinion I believe it should be removed.
This is also true with the statement about him having to "run faster than he ever had before" in Sonic Frontiers' promotional material. There's no material stating he is running faster than ever before. It's just advertising and gassing things up (Plus this wouldn't include the Spin Dash as this isn't "running").
Eggman's Ships
He's shown able to catch up with Eggman's spaceships in Sonic Colors I can agree with that, but where is the proof that they flew all the way to Planet Wisp or let alone superior to Dodon Pa's rocket? He could have teleported or done any other Eggman stuff since they appear almost instantly in Planet Wisp's atmosphere, so I don't think there should be comparisons made to the rocket because there's nothing backing it up.Pitches for
Classic Sonic
- [If all CRT info is accepted]
- Relativistic+, FTL reactions (Sonic consistently reacts to Metal Sonic's V. Maximum Overdrive Attack in close quarters combat, which amplifies Metal Sonic's speed by four times. Can dodge bombs from Rouge. Can react to attacks from the Death Egg Robot alongside Modern Sonic and Avatar.), Massively FTL with the Spin Dash, Drop Dash, and Super Peel Out (323.164c; The Spin Dash is a technique that increases the speed and reactions of those who use it by 346x, the Drop Dash is an aerial variant of the Spin Dash, and the Super Peel Out referred to as faster than the Spin Dash). Higher with Color Powers (Able to tag Blaze with assistance from the Spike Wisp)
- [If partial CRT info is accepted]
- Relativistic+, FTL reactions (Sonic consistently reacts to Metal Sonic's V. Maximum Overdrive Attack in close quarters combat, which amplifies Metal Sonic's speed by four times.), At most Massively FTL (Can dodge bombs from Rouge. Can react to attacks from the Death Egg Robot alongside Modern Sonic and Avatar.), Massively FTL+ with the Spin Dash, Drop Dash, and Super Peel Out (111,814.744c; The Spin Dash is a technique that increases the speed and reactions of those who use it by 346x, the Drop Dash is an aerial variant of the Spin Dash, and the Super Peel Out referred to as faster than the Spin Dash). Higher with Color Powers (Able to tag Blaze with assistance from the Spike Wisp)
Modern Sonic
- [If all CRT info is accepted]
- FTL (Stated to instantly reach lightspeed in Adventure 1. Is superior to E-102 Gamma and far above to his classic self. Outran a black hole in Shuffle.), Massively FTL with the Spin Dash, Super Peel Out and Boost (The Spin Dash increases his speed and reactions by this much.) | FTL (Commented that light speed was small-time to him after having his speed measured by E-123 Omega. Faster than a Cyan Wisp, which is confirmed to move at the speed of light, and has multiple WOG statements confirming he has surpassed the speed of light. Can catch up to and keep pace with several of Eggman’s ships. Able to keep an even pace with the Death Egg Robot with his normal speed, which was stated to surpass Infinite by Eggman and was corroborated by Tails.), Massively FTL with the Spin Dash, Boost, Drop Dash, and Super Peel Out (Blitzed a group of Prism Energy-enhanced Eggforcers to the point where they were moving in slow motion in comparison despite initially being pummeled by them) | FTL (Sonic is fast as he is while uninfected, but the constant running required to make sure he doesn't turn into a Zombot will make him slower after prolonged periods of time and exhaustion)
- [If partial CRT info is accepted]
- Massively FTL (323.164c; Stated to instantly reach lightspeed in Adventure 1. Is superior to E-102 Gamma and far above to his classic self. Outran a black hole in Shuffle. Was stated to be moving faster than he ever did before alongside Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2.), Massively FTL+ with the Spin Dash, Super Peel Out and Boost (111,814.744c; The Spin Dash increases his speed and reactions by this much.) | Massively FTL (Commented that light speed was small-time to him after having his speed measured by E-123 Omega. Faster than a Cyan Wisp, which is confirmed to move at the speed of light, and has multiple WOG statements confirming he has surpassed the speed of light. Can catch up to and keep pace with several of Eggman’s ships. Able to keep an even pace with the Death Egg Robot with his normal speed, which was stated to surpass Infinite by Eggman and was corroborated by Tails. Was stated to have run faster than ever before by the time of Sonic Frontiers.), Massively FTL+ with the Spin Dash, Boost, Drop Dash, and Super Peel Out (Blitzed a group of Prism Energy-enhanced Eggforcers to the point where they were moving in slow motion in comparison despite initially being pummeled by them) | Massively FTL (Sonic is fast as he is while uninfected, but the constant running required to make sure he doesn't turn into a Zombot will make him slower after prolonged periods of time and exhaustion)