Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Can't the Shatterverse be treated similarly to the macrocosms from Dragon Ball? Where even though they refer to it as the universe, it's a universe with multiple universe sized places contained within it.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

 

[JJSliderman]

It can, it’s just the premise is based on the existence of the multiverse within Prime, when none of the worlds in Prime show anything galaxy or higher.

 

[Omegabronic]

Frankly your replies are just really long and answering them in the way you write them takes up a lot of space, so I tried doing it this way.

Ignoring points because they debunk your notion is not a smart move

My point was, the council not knowing they’re in a splintered universe also coincides with how the council has seemingly never left the confines of a single planet, so their knowledge of the scope of their own space and the wider Shatterverse is limited.

neither did we, in real life, left even our Moon to Earth system, does that mean all cientists are not reliable sources for the universe?

So when they hear Sonic mention the idea of parallel versions of characters within their space, that likely sparks up the idea that these other spaces fall more in line with alternate dimensions rather than just parts of their universe.

Aka they are talking about their own shatterspace and not others, thank you for conceding, can you stop now? No? Ok

And universes can contain small space times within themselves (I.e hyperbolic time chamber).

......DB is not comparable to Sonic and i WILL IGNORE THIS COMPARISON, no, Universes don't hold dimensions inside itself, and in DB's case, a universe is 2-C because their's does......meaning you are agreeing Sonic's is as well

So if the Eggmen say they want to conquer the universe, multiple non-universe sized space times can still fit in that vision.

Stop lying, it can't, YOU SAID IT YOURSELF IT WOULDN'T FIT AS PART OF THEIR UNIVERSE, WTF ARE YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF NOW

The strange new multiverse thing can also just be referring to alternate space times of non universe size spatially, which doesn’t qualify for uni+ and can work cuz none of the shatterspaces show anything like galaxies within them, and if the void is the space between the shatterspaces it can hold thousands of MSS tier spaces within it and still be just universe sized, which would make sense if this entire multiverse came from breaking a single universe into pieces.

Nope, they are completely separated Space-Times, and since one individually are also called "universe" makes it clear that they are all universes, again, stop being dishonest

But they didn’t mention “their world”, specifically. They just talked about “the universe”

In reference to their world, yes, which again, is corroborated by the "strange new multiverse" and multiple universe comparison it has


Now can you stop lying and contradictinf yourself just because you want to downgrade Sonic? Again, your self admited spite is not puttinf a good image here, you should stop

 

[Omegabronic]

It can, it’s just the premise is based on the existence of the multiverse within Prime, when none of the worlds in Prime show anything galaxy or higher.

They don't need to show that when they arw stated to be universes, when Mario had a similar thing you didn't do this, i wonder why

 

[Theuser789]

But they didn’t mention “their world”, specifically. They just talked about “the universe”

Yeah, their universe. Even if the Eggmen believed the Shatterworlds to be small, in order for them to have a frame of reference to what even is an "universe", their world has to be one.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Omegabronic I know you may be a tad annoyed, but please just try and take it easy.

I know you don't mean anything by it, but you are really coming off as hostile right now. Maybe just take 5 minutes to cool off?

JJ is at least doing us a favor in bringing arguments we may not have thought about (even if some aren't the best) And he's been a helping hand plenty of times, remember?

 

[Omegabronic]

@Omega I know you may be a tad annoyed, but please just try and take it easy.

I know you don't mean anything by it, but you are really coming off as hostile right now. Maybe just take 5 minutes to cool off?

JJ is at least doing us a favor in bringing arguments we may not have thought about (even if some aren't the best) And he's been a helping hand plenty of times, remember?

Yeah, sorry @JJSliderman my.......irl stuff is at the peak of stress, i let get to me, sorry for that

 

[JJSliderman]

Sorry for bothering you so much, then. I admit that you have to make a lot of concessions (like saying each space is only MSS size, that the Eggmen were talking about all the alternate areas in their dream of universal conquest because they just heard about the existence of alternate locations and alternate Knuckles, that they wouldn’t know the scope of the world and would assume the alternate places were part of the same world), I just thought it was plausible because the Shatterverse isn’t a traditional multiverse and was just made from a single universe. But there are some args that even small components of the prime world are universe sized like the cyberspaces so, I suppose 2-C Sonic universe can actually make sense.

 

[Theuser789]

Cyberspace is 5D here, tho.

 

[JJSliderman]

Cyberspace as in the gun federation and eggnet

 

[Darkmon_cns]

This feels convoluted, since there's no way the Chaos Council even know the Shatterverse is a splintered universe.

I don't really understand what this statment proves, If they don't know it's a shattered universe then they would have no frame of reference to know there reality was 6 times smaller then normal, as well we have no evidence they've studied space to Any nnotable extent- so there's no way they'd know either way if there universe was the size of a normal one. I just can't see this statment as evidence for anything.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Ignoring points because they debunk your notion is not a smart move

The way you worte your replys is extremely taxing to reply to, please do not accuse people of bad conduct just for trying to find a less taxing way to reply to them.

 

[Omegabronic]

Sorry for bothering you so much, then. I admit that you have to make a lot of concessions (like saying each space is only MSS size, that the Eggmen were talking about all the alternate areas in their dream of universal conquest because they just heard about the existence of alternate locations and alternate Knuckles, that they wouldn’t know the scope of the world and would assume the alternate places were part of the same world), I just thought it was plausible because the Shatterverse isn’t a traditional multiverse and was just made from a single universe. But there are some args that even small components of the prime world are universe sized like the cyberspaces so, I suppose 2-C Sonic universe can actually make sense.

Again, Sorry for the way i phrased things, you really didn't deserved that

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Yeah, their universe. Even if the Eggmen believed the Shatterworlds to be small, in order for them to have a frame of reference to what even is an "universe", their world has to be one.

I disagree the word would have developed exactly as it did here to refer to everything in space no matter how much or little they know about it. We were using the word universe long before we had estimates for the size of the observable universe. If there reality was 6 times smaller then a normal universe or not, they'd still be calling it a universe because they have no frame of reference to know it's small.

 

[Omegabronic]

I disagree the word would have developed exactly as it did here to refer to everything in space no matter how much or little they know about it. We were using the word universe long before we had estimates for the size of the observable universe. If there reality was 6 times smaller then a normal universe or not, they'd still be calling it a universe because they have no frame of reference to know it's small.

The universe here is accepted as infinite, 6x infinite is still infinite

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The universe here is accepted as infinite, 6x infinite is still infinite

You say that but every tier past 3-A is basically based on some infinite being higher then others. The universes im the shatter verse could definitely be a 'smaller infinte' then the infinte of a normal universe.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

You say that but every tier past 3-A is basically based on some infinite being higher then others. The universes im the shatter verse could definitely be a 'smaller infinte' then the infinte of a normal universe.

Besides that the actual physical size of a Universe isn't what I mean, what matters for tier 2 in the temporal make up the timeline, if that has a 6th of the temporal stuff as a normal universes timeline due to being shattered- it would only make the hsatter verse collectively low 2-C

 

[JJSliderman]

Each shatterspace already has a unique flow of time, the main concern for me was each of them potentially not being universe sized.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Each shatterspace already has a unique flow of time, the main concern for me was each of them potentially not being universe sized.

Without taking statments from people who shouldn't have any way to confirm what there saying you could look at stars.


Tbh I still doubt it, sonic's universe did not have 5 separate flows of time to spread out, it's one flow of time was split in 6, the Time in each shatterverse should be more insignificant then the orignal sonic universe.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Tbh I still doubt it, sonic's universe did not have 5 separate flows of time to spread out, it's one flow of time was split in 6, the Time in each shatterverse should be more insignificant then the orignal sonic universe.

That's not how temporal tiering works. The fact that each Shatterspace has a flow of time means there is no time that's "less/more" significant/insignificant, even if they all stemmed from one original universe.

That doesn't downgrade anything from Tier 2 to Tier 3, for example A timeline alone, as long as it is a universe, is Tier 2.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

That's not how temporal tiering works. The fact that each Shatterspace has a flow of time means there is no time that's "less/more" significant/insignificant, even if they all stemmed from one original universe.

That doesn't downgrade anything from Tier 2 to Tier 3, for example A timeline alone, as long as it is a universe, is Tier 2.

Less then universesally significant 4D stuff is high 3-A. Just taking the logical assertion that the low 2-C sonic universe was split up would imply each individual reality is very high into high 3-A for temproal matter, there would need to be something to prove this isn't the case to rate them all as low 2-C

Besides if this was how it worked why wouldn't sonic's universe still be low 2-C even if it had all the supposed extra temproal matter the shatterverse implys? It's still a universe with a timeline as your discribing.

 

[Theuser789]

High 3-A is just 3D. Also there's no reason to assume universe doesn't mean universe, that's just pendantic.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

High 3-A is just 3D. Also there's no reason to assume universe doesn't mean universe, that's just pendantic.

I disagree there characters in question habe no frame of reference but the reality they live in. They literally would not know if there reality was less significant than a normal universe if it was unless they had say got to the sol dimension and other realitys and realized there's was smaller

They'd say the same thing either way therefore the statment has no meaning.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

High 3-A is just 3D. Also there's no reason to assume universe doesn't mean universe, that's just pendantic.

I will have to double check high 3-A it at least use to refer to none universal amounts of 4D matter as well

 

[Darkmon_cns]

That is odd, both 3-A and low 2-C call for universe sized structures, there simply isn't a stated tier for none universsal 4D odd, tho now that I'm thinking about it I remember hearing during one of the changes even tho it wasn't written sense it's below baseline low 2-C none univseral 4D would still be rated as s high 3-A

 

[Theuser789]

You don't need to triple post, but assuming the Chaos Council uses "universes" to refer to non-universal realms require far too many assumptions to even viably be used.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

You don't need to triple post, but assuming the Chaos Council uses "universes" to refer to non-universal realms require far too many assumptions to even viably be used.

I disagree. Assuming they have the frame of refence beaides there own realtity necessary to know if there reality is a proper universe is what requires far too many assumptions.

Edit: In fact it's explicitly not the case in the text of the show sense they don't know about dimensional travel until tails shows it to them.

 

[Omegabronic]

You say that but every tier past 3-A is basically based on some infinite being higher then others. The universes im the shatter verse could definitely be a 'smaller infinte' then the infinte of a normal universe.

......which s still infinite, yes

 

[Omegabronic]

Besides that the actual physical size of a Universe isn't what I mean, what matters for tier 2 in the temporal make up the timeline, if that has a 6th of the temporal stuff as a normal universes timeline due to being shattered- it would only make the hsatter verse collectively low 2-C

No cause you would need to assume these full universes are small to begin with

 

[Omegabronic]

I disagree. Assuming they have the frame of refence beaides there own realtity necessary to know if there reality is a proper universe is what requires far too many assumptions.

Edit: In fact it's explicitly not the case in the text of the show sense they don't know about dimensional travel until tails shows it to them.

Multiverse: a collection of different universes that are thought by some people to exist at the same time

https://www.wildbrain.com/trade-news/sonic-the-hedgehog-speeds-over-to-netflix-in-the-all-new-animated-series-sonic-prime

"Strange new multiverse"


I even put as the first phrase of the cosmology page even

 

[MysticMania]

You know what makes me cringe more than anything else in the Sonic fandom? Since Sonic x Shadow Generations released, and the changes being made to Sonic Generations, people who I consider to be angry tourists have attached buzzwords like "woke" and "DEI" to SONIC of all franchises.

Granted, they're nothing more than a loud minority of individuals that are trying to stir up drama to earn viewership, but I loathe people who normally don't care about Sonic trying to attach themselves to the series because of self perceived politics. It's just very cringe.

The same people who would genuinely attach the word "woke" to Sonic in a negative context, are the same people that'd probably genuinely elect Eggman as president.

 

[Omegabronic]

The same people who would genuinely attach the word "woke" to Sonic in a negative context, are the same people that'd probably genuinely elect Eggman as president.

Not quite, "woke" culture did ruin a lot of things nowadays......but of coutse, exagerating to apply it to SONIC of all things is silly

 

[Theuser789]

I disagree. Assuming they have the frame of refence beaides there own realtity necessary to know if there reality is a proper universe is what requires far too many assumptions.

Edit: In fact it's explicitly not the case in the text of the show sense they don't know about dimensional travel until tails shows it to them.

We don't know about dimensional travel in our universe, too, so I guess the rl universe isn't a real universe for some reason.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I don't see why their frame of reference on their own world should be any less than our own

 

[ShakeResounding]

I don't see why their frame of reference on their own world should be any less than our own

Because these are variants that don't remember the original universe nor how the Shatterverse formed while we do?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Because these are variants that don't remember the original universe nor how the Shatterverse formed while we do?

In the context that the space they live in is universe-sized, not the fact that the Prime World became a Shatterverse

 

[ShakeResounding]

In the context that the space they live in is universe-sized, not the fact that the Prime World became a Shatterverse

Oh my bad, sorry

 

[Darkmon_cns]

We don't know about dimensional travel in our universe, too, so I guess the rl universe isn't a real universe for some reason.

Very big false equivalence, our universe wasn't created by 1 reality separating into 6. The default assumption is that each of these 6 realitys are lesser then a universe unless proven otherwise.


The eggman can't know there reality is lesser then a normal universe without an outside perspective they lack, so them calling it a universe dosen't mean anything, of course they think it qualifys as one they've never seen anything else, it doesn't matter if there reality is universe sized or not, they would say the same thing either way so the statment has no meaning.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

No cause you would need to assume these full universes are small to begin with

Yes that's the default assumption given the nature of there creation unless proven otherwise.

 

[Theuser789]

This requires way to many assumptions without proof, versus thinking an universe is an universe and a multiverse is a multiverse.