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We can't force a "pattern" though, we have to go by individual feats because of the variable nature of the Chaos Emeralds. You can't force consistency onto something inherently inconsistent
Yes i can when we accept a very clear mechanism which the emeralds vary from that we can indeed analyse, Empowerment via Thoughts and Emotions

Aren't the copies inferior or something like that? I remember bringing this up but getting a response against it
Only Perfect Chaos specifically cuz without "heart" Chaos energy cannot use their empowerment, which is the basis of its power, all others don't have that malefactor
 
You should make a CRT about this. You seem in a better position to make it than I am, and it's a huge addition
I found one of his responses.



So, yeah. It can't be the illusions because they need to be actively triggered by a user. The range for passive power null is pretty damn impressive too, considering the PR was nowhere near Hidden Palace Zone & the fact that Angel Island is beyond massive.
 
Tbh, this was flawed. The way we scale Super Forms is by individual feats, not by things like this. The Metal Overlord stuff went against this.

So, Metal Overlord should go down to 2-C. Light-Man Eggman should also be revisited, though I think he'll be Low 1-C because of the Egg Field
I honestly feel like the Super Form mechanic stuff is just support to the already pretty blatant upscaling Metal Overlord has over Void.

Super Neo has the Speed Sim stuff, so maybe he could be higher than 2-C?
 
6 pages after I left Yesterday
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I was about to say how I think we should just make a Super form’s peak change alongside their base strength, but then I realised I kinda don’t have a reason for doing that beyond it being the easiest option to work around lol. Does anyone know if that kind of idea is supported in the series?
 
They really downplayed the Phantom Ruby when comparing it to the Wonder Flower & King Boo. Matthew "Ultraguy" Jones neglected to mention that it passively, without any users, nullified the Master Emerald long enough for Angel Island to crash back into the ocean. You know, the artifact that can power null something with far better reality warping than the Wonder Flower, the Chaos Emeralds.
Death Battle mischaracterizes characters based on wonderfully bad media literacy, completely misunderstands basic Sonic lore, and spitefully mock and humiliate Sonic characters and yet I am supposed to like the episode simply because the animator tried his hardest to add some Sonic hype in the episode? Nah. Moro tried but he couldn't save this episode from being basically Mario vs Sonic 2 Villain Edition. If the animation was like the latter people would realize this. Moro saved this episode.
 
I was about to say how I think we should just make a Super form’s peak change alongside their base strength, but then I realised I kinda don’t have a reason for doing that beyond it being the easiest option to work around lol. Does anyone know if that kind of idea is supported in the series?
I could be wrong, but I believe the first 2-C feat was in sonic rush that took place before or vaugly around the adventure games, the main 2-A feat was in 06 and of course the low 1-C stuff happened in frontiers.

Dark Gaia is also briefly compard to the end by tails at one point but having seen the statment and the context I rather doubt that alone would ever have been enough to scale dark Gaia to him.
 
Honestly, the Phantom Ruby just feels so fraudulent with its powers. First it's able to bypass Super Sonic's invulnerability, next it somehow "negates" the Master Emerald's power (cap on its superiority to the Master Emerald especially due to later feats), then it gets folded by base level characters? It's the most "i do whatever the hell i want" power that fails so miserably it's funny and the scaling just proves it. Keep in mind that Eggman had the real Phantom Ruby in the Death Egg Robot and he still loses.
 
Hey wait something just hit me, has eggman ever built a robot om his own that can fight SS in the Modern era? That dosen't like, totally realy on an artifact of some kind?
 
Closest is probably Sage’s barriers stacking up to Super Sonic level threats, but that’s just more indication to me that Super Sonic is getting stronger to the point Eggman can no longer keep up with technology alone.
 
I can just imagine Eggman having this rubbed in his face then he screams and gose build a device capable of generating it's own chaos energy and builds 10 of them just to prove that he can
 
10Gs can meaningfully affect super Sonic but it's also somehow enough to affect the rotation of the Earth. The second instance of writers being bad at math in one story even if said story was pretty peak.

Edit for context trained humans can experience 10Gs in fighter jets and only pass out lol.
 
Honestly, the Phantom Ruby just feels so fraudulent with its powers. First it's able to bypass Super Sonic's invulnerability, next it somehow "negates" the Master Emerald's power (cap on its superiority to the Master Emerald especially due to later feats), then it gets folded by base level characters? It's the most "i do whatever the hell i want" power that fails so miserably it's funny and the scaling just proves it. Keep in mind that Eggman had the real Phantom Ruby in the Death Egg Robot and he still loses.
Honestly, I see this as a consequence of Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces originally not being related, the connection with the Phantom Ruby was a later addition and early on they were just very different, which explains why in Sonic Mania the Phantom Ruby is directly stated to mess up with space-time, while in Sonic Forces early script, it was all just illusions, even Classic Sonic was implied to just be an illusion triggered by Tails.

They just were totally different projects that used very different systems that had to be mixed together because they wanted to make a tie-in, which only made things confusing.

So the Phantom Ruby has a completely contradictory backstory, powers that overlap with different explanations and make no sense. Because going from both Mania, the Phantom Ruby can mess up with space-time and even be used to warp reality and travel between dimensions, while in Sonic Forces (except for the odd thing of the Null Space), it's just illusions (except it can still cause dimensional travel because... they changed the original plot as originally Classic Sonic was an illusion).
 
Honestly, I see this as a consequence of Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces originally not being related, the connection with the Phantom Ruby was a later addition and early on they were just very different, which explains why in Sonic Mania the Phantom Ruby is directly stated to mess up with space-time, while in Sonic Forces early script, it was all just illusions, even Classic Sonic was implied to just be an illusion triggered by Tails.

They just were totally different projects that used very different systems that had to be mixed together because they wanted to make a tie-in, which only made things confusing.

So the Phantom Ruby has a completely contradictory backstory, powers that overlap with different explanations and make no sense. Because going from both Mania, the Phantom Ruby can mess up with space-time and even be used to warp reality and travel between dimensions, while in Sonic Forces (except for the odd thing of the Null Space), it's just illusions (except it can still cause dimensional travel because... they changed the original plot as originally Classic Sonic was an illusion).
Thankfully the Otherworld story made a good compromise between the two extremes.
 
Classic Sonic was implied to just be an illusion triggered by Tails.
Honestly, I prefer this over what we actually got. It adds more depth to the story and makes tails’ character feel more pitiful, as classic Sonic (or something resembling Sonic) appears as a manifestation of his coping. It gives the narrative a more tragic and meaningful angle rather than the "just because" explanation we were originally given
 
Honestly, I see this as a consequence of Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces originally not being related, the connection with the Phantom Ruby was a later addition and early on they were just very different, which explains why in Sonic Mania the Phantom Ruby is directly stated to mess up with space-time, while in Sonic Forces early script, it was all just illusions, even Classic Sonic was implied to just be an illusion triggered by Tails.

They just were totally different projects that used very different systems that had to be mixed together because they wanted to make a tie-in, which only made things confusing.

So the Phantom Ruby has a completely contradictory backstory, powers that overlap with different explanations and make no sense. Because going from both Mania, the Phantom Ruby can mess up with space-time and even be used to warp reality and travel between dimensions, while in Sonic Forces (except for the odd thing of the Null Space), it's just illusions (except it can still cause dimensional travel because... they changed the original plot as originally Classic Sonic was an illusion).
Yeah, it sucks. They dropped the ball big time with Sonic Forces so miserably despite having many years to work on the game. I hear it's because they switched around with writing teams or something, so there might have been some reverse backwash or something going on. It was painful to see such an ambitious game turn out the way it did. Even worse for such a cool concept such as the Phantom Ruby. I honestly wish it was just scaled way better and not glazed as much in the story itself. I still think Otherworld is odd due to the implications of a Phantom Ruby prototype contending with Super Sonic?? When the real Phantom Ruby couldn't in Forces? I hardly even believe it, to be real. I don't even know how the Phantom Ruby even WORKS anymore.
 
Fully this.

Also, did you guys see the flak over the 2-C upgrade? Base gets Low 1-C and there would be a riot and downgrade a week later lolol
People need to get their head out of their bungholes, bro. They'll slob on Archie's knob all day long, but when it comes to Game Sonic they can't have anything? It took so long for Base Game Sonic to be stronger than BASE Archie Sonic. Then you have people immediately trying to get Archie up to 1-A after the fact to "save Archie". It's infuriating and some real bull-ish if you ask me.
 
Honestly, I prefer this over what we actually got. It adds more depth to the story and makes tails’ character feel more pitiful, as classic Sonic (or something resembling Sonic) appears as a manifestation of his coping. It gives the narrative a more tragic and meaningful angle rather than the "just because" explanation we were originally given
Dude, that actually sounds very sick. Yet another reason for me to dislike Sonic Forces because of the sheer amount of potential it had to be great, before fizzling it out like a deflated balloon.

The silver lining about Forces' existence is that it gave us Sonic Forces: Overclocked, which is an absurdly goated mod that functions as a smaller fan made sequel to Forces.
 
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