Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

I realized this when he said that he thinks Solaris is stronger than The End

Cap-puccino. I'll be honest and say I hardly used VsBattles as my go-to source, to be real. Being complacent and relying on one place for info just rots the brain if you don't commit to your own research and study on a medium to come up with a conclusion.

People gotta realized that VsBattles isn't this be-all end-all to all discussion powerscaling-wise. Scaling also depends on independent thought, problem-solving, common sense, along with insight into the medium. Both with actual calculation, but also using narrative context (an element many seem to forget these days). One reason I often don't like people who bring up VsBattles as the true defacto truth of any debate ever.

 

[Alexander]

Well iirc there's 2 versions of Ultra; from Power Rings and from a Super Emerald.

The Power Ring variant lasts like 5 seconds and is probably hardly above Base.

The Super Emerald variant's power is just handwaved as somewhere above Super due its power source.

I'm moreso neutral nowadays regarding it and all of Archie

It was never stated

 

[ShakeResounding]

@The_Unknown_Warrior1 LMAO nah I'm mildly doomer on this match so I'm mentally prepared

Btw, you guys might have noticed Black Doom and the Black Arms didn't get their page updates. This is because there were a bunch of things that could still be improved, and so you can consider this a triple profile revision in one CRT. You guys will be eating good.

After that, I want to revise the Eggman Empire page and maybe create some sort of universal Badnik page/explanation blog.

 

[Oreo166]

The OVA feat.

Oh that…

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

It was never stated

I hardly count Ultra Sonic even having that varying power, anyway. It makes the scaling far too swingy for its own good and leads to this slippery slope that's just exhausting to have to walk on.

Ultra Sonic just sucks all around, personally. The design sucks, the explanation of its power sucks, the comic it comes from sucks, and a lot of the fans of it (and the comic) suck the most. Almost all of them are secondaries who get information from a guy that knows a guy that's actually MAYBE read the some of the comic.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

@The_Unknown_Warrior1 LMAO nah I'm mildly doomer on this match so I'm mentally prepared

Btw, you guys might have noticed Black Doom and the Black Arms didn't get their page updates. This is because there were a bunch of things that could still be improved, and so you can consider this a triple profile revision in one CRT. You guys will be eating good.

After that, I want to revise the Eggman Empire page and maybe create some sort of universal Badnik page/explanation blog.

As DJ Smokey has once said "The lore runs deeper than I thought....".

 

[Alexander]

I hardly count Ultra Sonic even having that varying power, anyway. It makes the scaling far too swingy for its own good and leads to this slippery slope that's just exhausting to have to walk on.

Ultra Sonic just sucks all around, personally. The design sucks, the explanation of its power sucks, the comic it come from sucks, and a lot of the fans of it (and the comic) suck the most. Almost all of them are secondaries who get information from a guy that knows a guy that's actually MAYBE read the some of the comic.

if time continues, one day, Game Sonic will be completely unreachable for Archie, we only need the atomic manipulation and a few more dimensional things

 

[ShakeResounding]

I'll be honest and say I hardly used VsBattles as my go-to source, to be real. Being complacent and relying on one place for info just rots the brain if you don't commit to your own research and study on a medium to come up with a conclusion.

Respect for that.

In fairness though, some people really enjoy researching and indexing in blogs/pages (I'm a prime example). And for me personally, I enjoy being able to consolidate so many various topics into dedicated blogs with as many sources as I can.

People gotta realized that VsBattles isn't this be-all end-all to all discussion powerscaling-wise. Scaling also depends on independent thought, problem-solving, common sense, along with insight into the medium. Both with actual calculation, but also using narrative context (an element many seem to forget these days). One reason I often don't like people who bring up VsBattles as the true defacto truth of any debate ever.

As an avid VSBW user, I agree and I'm sure many here could tell you similar. Sometimes this place gets TOO much credit (even if SOME of it might be deserved).

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

if time continues, one day, Game Sonic will be completely unreachable for Archie, we only need the atomic manipulation and a few more dimensional things

I already see Games as just objectively superior to Archie. Been superior for a long, long time imo. Especially due to the new Low 2-C scaling for Games Sonic that gave everyone a facelift.

I don't think Games canon even needs atomic manip at all. Peeps in Games Verse can tank Antimatter and Particle Beams in the Adventure Era.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I already see Games as just objectively superior to Archie. Been superior for a long, long time imo. Especially due to the new Low 2-C scaling for Games Sonic that gave everyone a facelift.

I don't think Games canon even needs atomic manip at all. Peeps in Games Verse can tank Antimatter and Particle Beams in the Adventure Era.

Game Sonic is 2-C now, so there's that

Now we just need another dimensional level for the god tier

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Respect for that.

In fairness though, some people really enjoy researching and indexing in blogs/pages (I'm a prime example). And for me personally, I enjoy being able to consolidate so many various topics into dedicated blogs with as many sources as I can.

As an avid VSBW user, I agree and I'm sure many here could tell you similar. Sometimes this place gets TOO much credit (even if SOME of it might be deserved).

And that's valid. I just wish people didn't just look at this wiki and turn their brain off afterwards. All it does is plague certain spaces with ignorance and I am tired of it specifically in the Sonic Fandom. I've said this before and I'll say it again, but Archie Sonic fans and Dragon Ball Heroes fans smell the exact same a lot of the time and a lot of them are equally annoying. I could say the same about regular Sonic and DB fans, but Archie and Heroes fans specifically tend to be way louder.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@ZothythoTheNephalem Btw, I don't recall seeing you much in this Gen. Discussion, so welcome from wherever you came from! Be that another site or just a different thread, new faces are always welcome!

I just wish people didn't just look at this wiki and turn their brain off afterwards. All it does is plague certain spaces with ignorance and I am tired of it specifically in the Sonic Fandom

Nah I getcha. Ironically, being an avid researcher has drawbacks because then people tend to rely on sites such as these like you mention.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Game Sonic is 2-C now, so there's that

Now we just need another dimensional level for the god tier

People won't believe me for my 5-D Base Sonic scaling via Sonic Shuffle and I'd prolly just get dragged for saying that cuz people like to believe the spin-offs are non-canon or that the feat's an outlier. Which is fine and all LMAO. Honestly, I just think that the Games just have more meat on their bones to actually explain their feats and power levels as opposed to Archie, which is something you really gotta argue for and look over like you're trying to decipher ancient scriptures. Actually agonizing and exhausting how Archie's shlock is.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

@ZothythoTheNephalem Btw, I don't recall seeing you much in this Gen. Discussion, so welcome from wherever you came from! Be that another site or just a different thread, new faces are always welcome!


Nah I getcha. Ironically, being an avid researcher has drawbacks because then people tend to rely on sites such as these like you mention.

Oh, I've kinda been lurking around and checking the Sonic scene every so often. I've mainly been in the YouTube comment section powerscaling scene a lil. It's as exhausting as it sounds, there's little payout, people don't read, but but it's still so f-ing funny.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

You know what I've been thinking lately? Shadow Generations is such a great game to constantly replay over and over again, but it's such a shame that, with the upcoming DLC in mind, that Shadow Gens only has seven levels to play around with.

As unlikely as it is: I hope Sonic Team and SEGA consider adding at least two more levels to the game as part of free DLC like all the content they added in Frontiers, maybe even something to promote the upcoming Sonic x DC crossovers in 2025.

 

[ShakeResounding]

"The Source Wall Act 2"

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

You know what I've been thinking lately? Shadow Generations is such a great game to constantly replay over and over again, but it's such a shame that, with the upcoming DLC in mind, that Shadow Gens only has seven levels to play around with.

As unlikely as it is: I hope Sonic Team and SEGA consider adding at least two more levels to the game as part of free DLC like all the content they added in Frontiers, maybe even something to promote the upcoming Sonic x DC crossovers in 2025.

I hope they add more Shadow 05 Levels since the game was super-lacking in it.

Also it would be very funny if they added a Gotham Level. What Sonic Team really needs to capitalize on is the free update game. Just like how they did with Frontiers. If they keep that up, the game is replayable, people will keep buying it, AND people will be happy to get more content. They should definitely consider adding more skins as well.

Maybe I'm asking for a little much, but it isn't like this is new (again because of Frontiers).

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

"The Source Wall Act 2"

Sonic Verse scaling to DCU is gonna be so funny, bro. Trust in the system LMAO.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

"The Source Wall Act 2"

That would be sick as hell, but I imagine issues would arise when the crossover is all said and done and people start asking questions about copyright and all that.

Maybe as a better than safe scenario or something, SEGA could add a Shadow Batman skin. But I don't think they'll go so far as to add an entire level based off DC Comics.

Though the idea of Sonic being apart of the DC Omniverse is quite enticing to the imagination.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

That would be sick as hell, but I imagine issues would arise when the crossover is all said and done and people start asking questions about copyright and all that.

Maybe as a better than safe scenario or something, SEGA could add a Shadow Batman skin. But I don't think they'll go so far as to add an entire level based off DC Comics.

Though the idea of Sonic being apart of the DC Omniverse is quite enticing to the imagination.

It'd be a huge mind-f, that's for sure. I'd consider it as crossover-y as its somewhat associated comic company crossovers like Image and stuff like that. But at the same time, it'd be both super funny. Also kinda cringe considering the tangled state comics are in rn with so many things packed in together. One of the reason why Archie got so absurd and complicated and hard to follow.

 

[Alexander]

"The Source Wall Act 2"

"Presenting, beyond everything, beyond space, time, the speed force, the sphere of gods, the source wall...do you want a ride?"

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

"Presenting, beyond everything, beyond space, time, the speed force, the sphere of gods, the source wall...do you want a ride?"

You just reminded me of MvC2. "I wanna take you for a ride!"

 

[Oreo166]

Just curious, how do y’all think Game Sonic deals with Archie’s 1 billionth ring?

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Just curious, how do y’all think Game Sonic deals with Archie’s 1 billionth ring?

Archie's fate hax get completely negated by Game Sonic's casual fate defiance and general acausality (seen in Secret Rings and implied in Fronters). This is also something Games Shadow also has (in terms of acausality).

 

[Alexander]

You just reminded me of MvC2. "I wanna take you for a ride!"

I want to stay at your house

 

[Alexander]

Just curious, how do y’all think Game Sonic deals with Archie’s 1 billionth ring?

By having 70 billion rings off course, how else you think he can?

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

By having 70 billion rings off course, how else you think he can?

It's funny cuz a lot of what the Chaos Emeralds, Chaos Energy, and just Super Forms can do in the Games is just enough to deal with Archie Sonic's canon plot armor.

 

[Alexander]

It's funny cuz a lot of what the Chaos Emeralds, Chaos Energy, and just Super Forms can do in the Games is just enough to deal with Archie Sonic's canon plot armor.

Sonic with plot armor in secret rings:we are not so different

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Sonic with plot armor in secret rings:we are not so different

It's funny that they are similar, but in the opposite direction. Yet everyone in the Games Sonic verse easily scales to Sonic.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Though the idea of Sonic being apart of the DC Omniverse is quite enticing to the imagination.

I always liked thoughts and theories such as these. That far off in some random, distant DC universe, Sonic's world is just peacefully (mostly) minding it's own business lolol

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

I always liked thoughts and theories such as these. That far off in some random, distant DC universe, Sonic's world is just peacefully (mostly) minding it's own business lolol

I like the imagery of all comics and crossover-y stuff just having a shared super-multiverse in general LOL.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

I always liked thoughts and theories such as these. That far off in some random, distant DC universe, Sonic's world is just peacefully (mostly) minding it's own business lolol

Giving me Transformers flashbacks lol. It's cosmology is in a similar way where it's kinda out there with Marvel, and then MLP's cosmology exists within Transformers.

 

[Theuser789]

Archie's fate hax get completely negated by Game Sonic's casual fate defiance and general acausality (seen in Secret Rings and implied in Fronters). This is also something Games Shadow also has (in terms of acausality).

Archienic's fatehax is 7D and works on acausals. It's on his page.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Giving me Transformers flashbacks lol. It's cosmology is in a similar way where it's kinda out there with Marvel, and then MLP's cosmology exists within Transformers.

I somehow completely forgot about Transformers and MLP sharing a cosmology LMAO

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Archienic's fatehax is 7D and works on acausals. It's on his page.

It says limited, so I can't attribute an entire negation upon all acausals in general. Entirely depends on how the acausal negation works and how it would even fair. That and not much entirely convinced of Archie Sonic's "superior tiering" compared to Games Sonic. Not to say my word is law or something, just never agreed with certain things about Archie and Games scaling compared to one another.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Archie's fate hax get completely negated by Game Sonic's casual fate defiance and general acausality (seen in Secret Rings and implied in Fronters). This is also something Games Shadow also has (in terms of acausality).

Oh fr? My goat is just like the other goat?

 

[Theuser789]

It says limited, so I can't attribute an entire negation upon all acausals in general. Entirely depends on how the acausal negation works and how it would even fair. That and not much entirely convinced of Archie Sonic's "superior tiering" compared to Games Sonic. Not to say my word is law or something, just never agreed with certain things about Archie and Games scaling compared to one another.

The negation comes from Sonic's fatehax helping defeating Mogul even when he became Master Mogul.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

The negation comes from Sonic's fatehax helping defeating Mogul even when he became Master Mogul.

I didn't ask where it came from, but specifically how it's limited and what it's limit would even be.

Also, I'm really just wondering about the entire common consensus on the Sonic Shuffle scaling, how Sonic was one of the people to beat Void in base. There's no longer the note of it being an outlier on his page, so I just wonder if that'd ever change the scaling.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Oh fr? My goat is just like the other goat?

Eyup. Shadow Gens gave him a bit of touch-ups.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Eyup. Shadow Gens gave him a bit of touch-ups.

What specifically? Did I miss anything?