Son Goku vs. Vegeta

[Noahkaismith]

I'm gonna be closing this thread and after Vegeta and Goku get their ugrades, I'm gonna redo it.

Son Goku: 6 (Paleomario66, DarkDragonMedeus, Jobbo, Marco Shark, ThrasherEX, DatOneWeeb)

Vegeta: 2 (TheC2, Bruce Reb)


Come if you wanna! I'll take you on! Gather the strongest guys you can and come at me! I'll beat every last one of them!


Your training isn't over when your body gives up, but when your mind gives up

 

[Akreious]

Yeah you'll probably have to restrict Kaioken since Vegeta, even after that training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in the Goku Black Arc, isn't reaching SSB Kaioken levels yet. Especially if Goku goes x10 or god forbid x20.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

If Kaioken is restricted then Vegeta could potentially pull it off. I'm not sure if Goku has closed the gap that Vegeta widened in the Goku Black Arc.

 

[Noahkaismith]

Yeah you'll probably have to restrict Kaioken since Vegeta, even after that training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in the Goku Black Arc, isn't reaching SSB Kaioken levels yet. Especially if Goku goes x10 or god forbid x20.

Fair enough, but keep in mind that a Kaioken Goku and Toppo were fiercely matched, and if the fight continued, one of them would've likely died. It's fair to say that Kaioken Goku = Toppo. Yet we still see Vegeta going toe-to-toe with Toppo in the Tournament of Power.

 

[Paleomario66]

If we limit Goku to normal Kaioken, then Vegeta could potentially win, since he could match and surpass Toppo without even giving it his all (as he often was distracted by Goku's fight with Kefla), while SSB Goku struggled with him. Though Toppo hadn't powered up yet, Vegeta was doing even better than Goku did. If Goku gets Kaioken x10 or x20, then so far Vegeta doesn't have anything to keep up with that.

 

[Noahkaismith]

If Kaioken is restricted then Vegeta could potentially pull it off. I'm not sure if Goku has closed the gap that Vegeta widened in the Goku Black Arc.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Goku has not shown to be 100% on par with current Vegeta. Vegeta was easily demolishing Toppo who's peak is at least implied to be on SSJBKK level. And in the Goku Black Arc he was curbstomping Rose Goku Black who previously was stomping Goku,Vegeta and Trunks at the same time.

So If we limit it to SSJB Goku and SSJB Vegeta then i would say that Vegeta has better feats as of now.

 

[Paleomario66]

I agree, though I think Toppo was only implied to be SSB Kaioken level once he powered up.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I agree with that. Although it didn't seem like Vegeta was going all out against him either (considering the constant interruptions.)

 

[Paleomario66]

True. I was just pointing out when Toppo was implied to be SSB KK level. I agree with everything else you said though.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Both Son Goku and Vegeta are frequently growing stronger and stronger all the time; "One shots himself from yesterday". Vegeta in SSB form may be even stronger now then SSB Goku was, but I don't think that's really a good argument to say that current SSB Vegeta is stronger than current SSB Goku. Current SSB Goku should still be on the level of Current SSB Vegeta, if not above. But with Kaioken times two, Goku is easily much stronger.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I think Vegeta still keeps an edge on Goku and I'll explain why. Bear with me for a bit:

A while back Whis talked about Goku's and Vegeta's power. (The episode where he compared them to a tree while Beerus is a castle.) The oracle fish asked Whis why he didn't have them train as SSB. Whis said it was because training their transformations wouldn't yield as big a power increase as training their base forms. During this, Goku and Vegeta are training with weights in base form. Whis also mentioned he doubled Vegeta's weight to keep everything fair, as Vegeta had been training more than Goku.

Then think about the rest of Super. Vegeta's been putting in more and more training. Remember, he'd been training with Whis for an extensive period of time and then he had his session in the RoST. Goku has been mixing Kaioken into SSB, but that's kind of it.

Also, I believe that it was said that Vegeta was stronger than Goku at a point but then Goku got SSBKK .

To me, a lot points to Vegeta having an edge. But jury's still out. Guess we'll see in how he handles Jiren.

 

[Akreious]

Vegeta trained his base SSB form to superior heights than Goku, no doubts about that. But that's also because Goku wasn't solely focused on training his base strength and was instead training to apply Kaioken to SSB which he succeeded by being able to reach SSB Kaiokenx20.

 

[Marco_Shark]

Goku fra

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

While I do see some points; yes, Vegeta did train more than Goku. But at the same time, Goku was thought to have greater natural growth due to the fact that he's more relaxed and allows his body time to rest more often then Vegeta. Vegeta typically does what can be referred to as "Over-training"; at least compared to what Goku does. Goku also eats more and is thus inhaling more protein, which will also give Goku more nutrition for growth. Keep in mind that Hit initially stomped SSB Vegeta, yet Goku was able to land a hit on him in base form. So yeah, inconsistencies aside, Goku is usually considered stronger of the two on average regardless of transformations.

Goku also tends to hold back a lot more than Vegeta does, so he almost never really uses his full power. So if Vegeta stomps a character whom Goku seemingly struggled with, it usually because Goku was playing around. When Goku stomps a character Vegeta was struggling with, it's usually a legit feat. There's also the fact that Vegeta kind of admitted that Gohan was possibly stronger then he was, SSB Goku is comparable to Gohan, Golden Frieza kind of beat Gohan; though it's unknown if Gohan was using his full power and was mostly playing along with Frieza's plan. And Goku in SSB had a draw with Golden Frieza. Additionally, every time UIO wears off, despite Goku's exhaustion, his base form becomes drastically stronger than ever every time he recovers. This is also seen by the fact that base form Goku was more than a match for SS2 Caulifla.

All in all, I'm still positive that SSB Goku is a bit stronger than SSB Vegeta still.

 

[Jobbo]

You can't assume Vegeta's stronger than Goku just because he fought Toppo. He seemed stronger when he overwhelmed Black too, but then Goku was on par with him against Black's clones and then surpassed the Father Son Galick Gun on his own. Goku's rate of improvement seems to be much greater than Vegeta's, so he should easily be able to compensate for Vegeta's RoSAT training.

 

[Random1201]

Is Vegeta a more skilled combatant?

 

[Jobbo]

Is Vegeta a more skilled combatant?

Not really. At best you could say they're equals in terms of skill going off their fight in the Buu Arc, but Goku wasn't even going all out.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Goku is more skilled, but Vegeta has less CIS. But Goku does consider Vegeta a serious opponent so I'm pretty sure Goku will actually fight back and use his clever tactics.

 

[ThrasherEx]

Goku stomps with Zeno button XDDDDDDDDD

Seriously though, Goku should take this, Vegeta is stronger in SSB vs SSB, but kaiokenX2 gives Goku the boost to close and pass the gap in power.

(Haven't seen 122 yet, so this may change after watching it)

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Vegeta SSJB>Goku SSJB ever since the Goku black arc. I don't think Goku has closed the gap but it is possible because of the zenkais he has gotten from Jiren

 

[Jobbo]

Vegeta SSJB>Goku SSJB ever since the Goku black arc. I don't think Goku has closed the gap but it is possible because of the zenkais he has gotten from Jire

Goku put out more power than Vegeta & Trunks' combined blast that very arc. And the promotional material for the TOP arc lists Goku as the strongest member of the U7 team with Freeza being his equal.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

That was with the Kaioken

Well, Jiren said that his final flash was strong, and Vegeta did better alone against Jiren than he did with Gokus help, even Goku was shocked. I agree that Goku is probably stronger but it could go either way

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Jiren was holding back even more against Vegeta than he was when he fought Goku; and yes, Vegeta did impress Goku. But it is common for both Goku and Vegeta to occasionally demonstrate a temporary boost.

 

[Yui_KotegawaTLR]

ep 122 Vegeta Saiyan Blue >= Goku Saiyan Blue kaioken 20 times

 

[Jobbo]

ep 122 Vegeta Saiyan Blue >= Goku Saiyan Blue kaioken 20 times

Not really, Vegeta himself stated that Jiren was using less power and speed than when he fought Goku. And Goku was able to block Jiren's attacks fairly well despite being heavily exhausted, Jiren was just holding back massively.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Wel just have to wait and see about Vegeta's (hopefully) relevant powerup.

 

[Jobbo]

The spoilers already confirmed that it's useless against Jiren. It seems he gets yet another power up vs Toppo which puts him at GoD level, though.

 

[Aceraspire]

ep 122 Vegeta Saiyan Blue >= Goku Saiyan Blue kaioken 20 times

Not really.

Vegeta stated that Jiren was using less power & speed against him compared to GOku

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Vegeta probably gets a new transformation or something in the next episode; SSB Vegeta is still at most comparable to SSB Goku Kaioken. Also, Goku and Vegeta are both always constantly getting stronger every minute at this point, and always taking turns which character is stronger than the other. So it's best to consider their various transformations equal, but an emphasise that Goku exclusive forms make Goku easily stronger overall.

 

[Fankid]

Didn't SSB Goku put up a much better fight than SSB Vegeta until Vegeta adapted to it?

 

[Bruce_Reb]

ep 122 Vegeta Saiyan Blue >= Goku Saiyan Blue kaioken 20 times

Not really.
Vegeta stated that Jiren was using less power & speed against him compared to GOku

I disagree. I feel like Vegeta was clearly talking about when Goku went ultra instinct. At Kaioken x20 Goku couldn't even get past his fast-punching technique, Vegeta could after having seen it once. He also went into the time chamber twice and was depicted as notably stronger than Goku in base/blue for the second half of the Black arc. I feel like Vegeta would take this one high diff.

 

[Aeyu]

I'm gonna think about this from the writing/character perspective of both characters:

Vegeta likely has more raw strength than Kaka-I mean Goku, but Goku is definitely a better strategist.

Thus Vegeta getting an amped SSB (2?) and Goku getting something that helps him strategize sounds perfect.

Now, they go at each other at absolute max power to settle old rivalries?

This is gonna be like Naruto vs Sasuke at the end of their series.

Inconclusive because muh feels.

 

[Siegfried10]

Currently i think Goku SSJ Blue >= Vegeta SSJ Blue, add Kaioken and its obvious who wins. Now if we use Vegeta's new Blue form... well, guess we need to see if it really reaches UI level of power.

 

[Hizack123]

Goku....because he is goku and Vegeta is......Vegeta.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I'm going for Goku people say Vegeta did a better job with Jiren however the big flaw was Vegeta stated he wasn't using as much power as he did with Goku and besides Goku did a much better job the second time even when his stamina was much lower and he was beat up!

 

[Noahkaismith]

Currently i think Goku SSJ Blue >= Vegeta SSJ Blue, add Kaioken and its obvious who wins. Now if we use Vegeta's new Blue form... well, guess we need to see if it really reaches UI level of power.

You need better reasoning if you want your vote to be counted.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

Goku. Remember, on his First fight, Vegeta used the Great Ape Transformation just to defeat Goku.

During Vegeta's Second battle with Goku, Vegeta has the Majin Power Up. And even then, he was on equal terms with Goku's SSJ2 state. However, not only did Goku have his SSJ3 form, but he also only lost cause of Vegeta's sneak attack. Now, since DBS may end with Goku beating Jiren in his U.I Power Up, Goku will EASILY take this match.

 

[Noahkaismith]

EDIT: READ OP

 

[ZERO7772]

Vegeta Blue > Goku Blue

Simply because Vegeta keep training like beast and push his limit as SSB and as shown in Black arc, Goku Black was kicking their asses until Vegeta power up and beat the shit out of him, Goku overpowering Fusion Zamasu on his own without Kaioken" is PIS because that means he's stronger than the combined power of SSR Trunks and SSB Vegeta even though he was losing to Black not long ago

DBS power levels and scaling are bullshit we all know that so trying to make sense based on one exchange or two won't cut it

STILL, even if Vegeta SSB is stronger than SSB Goku he can't close the gap between him and Goku once Goku goes KK especially if he uses KKx20 that just too much for Vegeta

Yeah voting for Goku here