Some more about demons

[Firephoenixearl]

So since y'all agreed that all demons have 4D stuff from using Demon Energy (which is 4D). And since Mundus' feat was accepted as Low 2-C (despite the main feat not being Low 2-C) because he used Demon Energy as well.

Wouldn't that mean that all demons now should be Low 2-C for pretty much the same reason that Mundus got Low 2-C, it was accepted for him and the argument remains the same for the most part?

 

[SagaTheLegend]

Agree completely, even a fraction of Low 2C Power should be Low 2C. Demon Energy is accepted as Low 2C and all demons can use it, thus all demons are Low 2C. All non Low 2C keys should be removed.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Hax =/= AP

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Define hax though. Demon energy isn't hax, it's well energy, it can get AP.

Hax doesn't = AP if it's sth like Medaka Box for example where the abilities have no medium.

The point is, we already did that for mundus, what's different for normal demons?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

they have the batery, can't use it for more than that, simple

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They have the battery? That's not a correct analysis. They are using energy that is by default 4D to do things. They can do it, same as mundus. So what's the difference?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Your comment seems to imply that you think they are 4-D themselves or anything like that to be able to shit universes on command. They aren't, they are 3D guys being powered by 4D shit (and that hopefully will be changed by next week).

This obviously means they can't use it to do AP feat, in case you don't know demons can handle a certain amout of power before their bodies get overloaded and basically fall from too much power (check volume 2 for this), something that Argosax and Mundus don't have problems with as you know, they did the shit ton of feats for the verse.

Unless of course, you can prove that random demons can fart universes or fuse them like the demon gods can

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Your comment seems to imply that you think they are 4-D themselves or anything like that to be able to shit universes on command. They aren't, they are 3D guys being powered by 4D shit (and that hopefully will be changed by next week).

This obviously means they can't use it to do AP feat, in case you don't know demons can handle a certain amout of power before their bodies get overloaded and basically fall from too much power (check volume 2 for this), something that Argosax and Mundus don't have problems with as you know, they did the shit ton of feats for the verse.

Unless of course, you can prove that random demons can fart universes or fuse them like the demon gods can

Yes they are 3D dudes being powered by 4D stuff. Regardless of your physical condition if you can power yourself up with higher degree stuff you can get an AP feat for it.

Ok but the issue is they already use this 4D energy and don't explode so what would be the issue?

I am not here to prove anything, im just asking questions based on what was accepted. All im discussing is stuff tht was already accepted. Also the battery example is incorrect, cus the fact of the matter is what was accepted wasn't "battery is 4D" it was "electricity is 4D" so regardless of the battery the point stands.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Because being powered doesn't prove that they can use it in a physical manner like the god tiers can. 3-D power, 4-D power, infinite D power, I don't care for the example but they have a limit for how much power they can use, something the rest lack.

im just asking questions based on what was accepted

And what is accepted is that Argosax and co. are the only ones being able to do this kind of stuff, not rest of demons.

Regardless of how you understand how things go, they can't use it to create physical shit or do physical feats like argosax and mundus can. The pages reflect this perfectly with how only Argosax, Mundus and Plutone are the ones capable of fusing, separating, creating the universe.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Because being powered doesn't prove that they can use it in a physical manner like the god tiers can. 3-D power, 4-D power, infinite D power, I don't care for the example but they have a limit for how much power they can use, something the rest lack.

They can use strictly 4D energy to do things though. That's already a feat and we know demons can use demon energy to power up.

And what is accepted is that Argosax and co. are the only ones being able to do this kind of stuff, not rest of demons.

What was accepted was Demon Energy is 4D energy.

And the argument is no different for what was accepted for Mundus, what is holding these guys back? I don't understand. The setting is the same.

 

[Cropfist]

Yeah, this doesn't fly

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

They can use strictly 4D energy to do things though

Yes but not for AP

What was accepted was Demon Energy is 4D energy.

That doesn't prove lesser demons can do universal feats

And the argument is no different for what was accepted for Mundus, what is holding these guys back? I don't understand. The setting is the same.

Mundus already had more feats on that scale, him farting a universe to fight Dante just serves as more proof, something that, again, lesser demons can't do.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes but not for AP

They can use it to amplify their powers though. This is already accepted and on the demon physiology page.

That doesn't prove lesser demons can do universal feats

Why doesn't it? For mundus used the same argument and it was accepted. Mundus had no Low 2-C feat himself, just the fact that he used demon energy sufficed.

Mundus already had more feats on that scale, him farting a universe to fight Dante just serves as more proof, something that, again, lesser demons can't do.

He didn't have feats on Low 2-C, it was all on a lower scale. Him farting out the universe was never Low 2-C which is why we resorted to the Demon Energy argument.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

They can use it to amplify their powers though. This is already accepted and on the demon physiology page.

that is not proof of them being able to cause universal feats

Why doesn't it? For mundus used the same argument and it was accepted. Mundus had no Low 2-C feat himself, just the fact that he used demon energy sufficed.

Mundus is not a lesser demon, is that all your argument has? Because if so this should be clossed.

He didn't have feats on Low 2-C, it was all on a lower scale. Him farting out the universe was never Low 2-C which is why we resorted to the Demon Energy argument.

Argosax: distorts time and space on a universal scale and wraps the universe itself, fuses 2 universes that have their own time and space

Mundus: does the same thing

Sparda: separates the universe into 2 with their own time space

Plutone: does the same as sparda

Void Mundus: Fuses the universes too, is the source of all demon power in the alt universe

Qliphot: can fuse the universes together

The thread was made to literally bump all of their feats to L2-C because they all affect time and space on a universal scale, literally all of them are higher than Mundus farting a universe to fight Dante

 

[Firephoenixearl]

that is not proof of them being able to cause universal feats

It is in this case cus they are using 4D energy. That on its own is a feat. You already agreed that the energy they use is 4D in every way, and same for their hax. 1 of their hax happens to be powering themselves up though.

I don't know much about the verse but this seems pretty contradictory.

Argosax: distorts time and space on a universal scale and wraps the universe itself

Lower demons have the same feat. And are using the same energy.

Also none of the other feats are Low 2-C, they all cap at 3-A, which is why Low 2-C didn't happen sooner.

Mundus is not a lesser demon, is that all your argument has?

Using more energy just makes someone stronger within the dimensional tier. Having kinetic energy than a truck doesn't make someone below 10-C.

 

[Livinmeme]

that is not proof of them being able to cause universal feats



Mundus is not a lesser demon, is that all your argument has? Because if so this should be clossed.



Argosax: distorts time and space on a universal scale and wraps the universe itself, fuses 2 universes that have their own time and space

Mundus: does the same thing

Sparda: separates the universe into 2 with their own time space

Plutone: does the same as sparda

Void Mundus: Fuses the universes too, is the source of all demon power in the alt universe

Qliphot: can fuse the universes together

The thread was made to literally bump all of their feats to L2-C because they all affect time and space on a universal scale, literally all of them are higher than Mundus farting a universe to fight Dante

i am just saying that because character A didnt do a low 2-C feat doesnt mean he isnt low 2-C just saying

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

He didn't have feats on Low 2-C, it was all on a lower scale. Him farting out the universe was never Low 2-C which is why we resorted to the Demon Energy argument.

So wrong that its not even funny....

May want to read this again....and pay attention this time maybe.....

https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-re-scaling-about-dmcs-big-bad.113436/

Low2C was given because its separate from all other realms which are all individually low2C....it's seperateness was the whole arguement. Its Mundus's own feat not DWE.

DWE is was only used for scaling strictly.....and to prove that its not an outlier.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Low2C was given because its separate from all other realms which are all individually low2C....it's seperateness was the whole arguement. Its Mundus's own feat not DWE.

Separate doesn't mean it has a separate flow of time. But it was given to him because using demon energy another demon (agrosax) could mess with space and time. It literally says up there in the arguments "scaling from agrosax" and even brings up the demon energy part as the reason why it would be Low 2-C.

And that same scaling can be applied here? What's the issue?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

i am just saying that because character A didnt do a low 2-C feat doesnt mean he isnt low 2-C just saying

Funny how this opposite of this arguement were used to against upgrades of God Tiers in past way back...."no feat , no upgrades, no extra feats then outlier".

But how tables have turned.....now people outside fandom using this arguement to upgrade fodder tiers.....ironic.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

What part of them being unable to use said energy to produce universal level feats is that hard to understand that it looks inconsistent to you

Lower demons have the same feat. And are using the same energy.

And unlike the god tiers, the lesser demons have a cap of power.

Also none of the other feats are Low 2-C, they all cap at 3-A, which is why Low 2-C didn't happen sooner.

All of their feats were 3-A, possibly Low 2-C, the upgrade didn't happen earlier because we weren't sure what we needed to do

Separate doesn't mean it has a separate flow of time.

Its like you are ignoring how different the flow of time is in both places, obviously they have a separate flow of time.

And that same scaling can be applied here? What's the issue?

Once again, only the demon kings have performed those feats.

Is literally that all you have? Because this is a gross misunderstanding and so far you don't get it

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Look, if you want this to fly for some reason you have to prove the lesser demons can shit universes just like the god tiers can "just because they have the same power source".

As how you should already know, having the same power source is =/= having the ability to perform the same or even better feats

If you can't understand that then this will go nowhere.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And unlike the god tiers, the lesser demons have a cap of power.

A cap somewhere in 4D? yes. Im not saying they're of equal power to the god tiers, im just saying they have accepted points that would give them the tier.

All of their feats were 3-A, possibly Low 2-C, the upgrade didn't happen earlier because we weren't sure what we needed to do

Fusing universes, creating universes etc, aren't "possibly Low 2-C". Cus there isn't any sort of remote mentioning of timelines being involved and the fusion feat is the one furthest from Low 2-C.

Its like you are ignoring how different the flow of time is in both places, obviously they have a separate flow of time.

There was mention of mundus' dimension having a different flow of time? Can you quote which part of the previous thread had that?

Look, if you want this to fly for some reason you have to prove the lesser demons can shit universes just like the god tiers can "just because they have the same power source".

As how you should already know, having the same power source is =/= having the ability to perform the same or even better feats

What you don't understand is the ability to use 4D energy. You seem to skip this part in this Q&A, even though you didn't in previous thread. Curious.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Separate doesn't mean it has a separate flow of time. But it was given to him because using demon energy another demon (agrosax) could mess with space and time. It literally says up there in the arguments "scaling from agrosax" and even brings up the demon energy part as the reason why it would be Low 2-C.

And that same scaling can be applied here? What's the issue?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-re-scaling-about-dmcs-big-bad.113436/

Read again....we both had a squabble over this in the thread.....I just reread it to confirm.

I pointed out why every realm is low2C and seperateness is important and main point....DWE/DE was used as supporting evidence to prove that it is AP/Dura applicable not to be confused with hax/reality warping....that was the intention all along. And scaling and consistency throughout the series obviously.
If the realm created was 4A sized no one would have bothered with low2C regardless of DWE being 4D because feat itself is 4A.....
But its 3A size along with space-times separateness grants low2C....not because source is 4D...

Now can you show this kind of explicit proof of feats for fodder tier, if not you are wasting time, and this should be closed

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Fusing universes, creating universes etc, aren't "possibly Low 2-C". Cus there isn't any sort of remote mentioning of timelines being involved and the fusion feat is the one furthest from Low 2-C.

Fusing and splitting feats were always 3A....."possibly low2C" was for space-time warping.

Now I am dead tired and don't give a shit so I amma say this out loud and open....
These CRTs that happened last months were all foundation for bigger stuff....what do I mean?? well don't worry....3A fusing/splitting feats will soon become 2C.....that's the end goal......and timelines is required for that....which we have proof of, which we have also used before and some new unknown stuff as proof.

So don't worry....The Biggest Storm has yet to approach.....

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Fusing and splitting feats were always 3A....."possibly low2C" was for space-time warping.

Wait so you agree the Low 2-C was from warping space-time which as we went over in the last Q&A you all agreed low tier demons are capable of doing? I am confused as to what your point is if you agree.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So what are some of the basic details for Low 2-C again, I'm already aware of universal scales, but what's the method of the Low 2-C feat. Is it simply warping, or do they physically shake the space time continuum among other things.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Wait so you agree the Low 2-C was from warping space-time which as we went over in the last Q&A you all agreed low tier demons are capable of doing? I am confused as to what your point is if you agree.

I individually never agree for 4D DE only for DWE....

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So what are some of the basic details for Low 2-C again, I'm already aware of universal scales, but what's the method of the Low 2-C feat. Is it simply warping, or do they physically shake the space time continuum among other things.

1)Space-time warping of Human World on universal scale done by Argo using Demon World Energy which is 4D and comes from Demon World which is a space-time.

2) Mundus creates a standard universal sized Low2C realm.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So what are some of the basic details for Low 2-C again, I'm already aware of universal scales, but what's the method of the Low 2-C feat. Is it simply warping, or do they physically shake the space time continuum among other things.

Basically in another thread everyone accepted Demon Energy as a purely 4D form of energy, which scales to fodder demons. They used the 4D energy as an argument for Mundus being Low 2-C, but refuse to do the same for fodder demons. Because every demon currently has 4D hax and resistances from using Demon Energy, however the scaling to AP was never done.

Why don't fodder demons scale if they are using a 4D energy? They can amp themselves with said energy (accepted in the profiles) so why do they not have 4D AP from being able to amp from it?

That is my question. Everything is accepted, just not applied.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So what are some of the basic details for Low 2-C again, I'm already aware of universal scales, but what's the method of the Low 2-C feat. Is it simply warping, or do they physically shake the space time continuum among other things.

3)There's also Dante exploding Void Mundus who is a sentient realm and lives as nexus of all Demon World Energy which is 4D....

4)Also there are some environmental destruction feats on Low2C lvl.

 

[Thehunter077]

This 4D energy also confusing me tbh, I hope there's CRT to clear this kind of thing.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

This 4D energy also confusing me tbh, I hope there's CRT to clear this kind of thing.

The CRT happened already.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

This 4D energy also confusing me tbh, I hope there's CRT to clear this kind of thing.

Yeah we are making a blog to expain it better , no CRT is needed for that....but now for temporary sake make do with this post of mine on this CRT...

https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-re-scaling-about-dmcs-big-bad.113436/post-3625932

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So what are some of the basic details for Low 2-C again, I'm already aware of universal scales, but what's the method of the Low 2-C feat. Is it simply warping, or do they physically shake the space time continuum among other things.

Basically, Argosax being able to fuse both Universes together and we know it involves time and space on said universal scale, Mundus existence sustaining the Demon world (a space time construct) among others . It's not about shaking them, but fusing/separating them.

Then there is Mundus feat of creating a universe to fight Dante, which is why Earl somehow has problems with everything

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So what are some of the basic details for Low 2-C again, I'm already aware of universal scales, but what's the method of the Low 2-C feat. Is it simply warping, or do they physically shake the space time continuum among other things.

5) Yeah Tony reminded me with above post....Mundus has solid sustenance feat of Demon World which is another low2C feat....

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So what are some of the basic details for Low 2-C again, I'm already aware of universal scales, but what's the method of the Low 2-C feat. Is it simply warping, or do they physically shake the space time continuum among other things.

Come on dude. You were 1 of the ppl who agreed to the Low 2-C argument like 1 week ago.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Normally, simply warping time and space would just more so be range rather than AP or hax. Second, I don't have any strong opinions on the series as a whole, only that I thought the previous thread was elaborate and detailed. Like that Mundus or was it Argosax actually gave birth to the universe via their own demonic energy. And while that statement didn't specify that they created time and space, Universal creation feats can include time and space shenanigans but that generally requires proof. And then there was also using his own demonic energy to sustain the demon realm.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Normally, simply warping time and space would just more so be range rather than AP or hax.

You already accepted it. But the issue is what was also accepted was Demonic Energy is a purely 4D type of energy, which would mean it pretty much scales to everyone who can use it.

I call it an issue cus it was used to scale mundus, but not other demons.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

To elaborate on the issue further. Ppl were saying "demonic energy is hax", however demonic energy is not hax, otherwise we would have to remove all non physical feats done in the series (3-A, Low 2-C etc etc) because it would be just hax and therefore not scale in any way to AP.

However that doesn't seem to be an argument for Mundus, Agrosax etc. It does appear to be an argument for low tier demons though. For some reason.