Some Minor Sage Monarch Additions

[Muchacho_mrm]

Really simple conceptual manipulation.​

So MC created a technique and it's been stated to incorporate these human abstractions:

Yang Qi had sages, emperors, rulers, gods, and the Sovereign Lord.

He was fighting an opponent who's technique controlled the world so he's technique works under this assumption that people > world:

People controlled heaven and earth. Without them, heaven and earth were nothing. Meaningless. Empty.

The technique is based on:

Yang Qi’s Sage Monarch Grand Magic was based on the nature of humanity.

Essentially, he uses the definitions and brings them into reality.

For example, one of the moves is Spear of Heroes based on this definition.

Most people, in their hearts, wanted to be both hero and hegemon. As it was said, heroic hegemons could dominate everything under heaven.

And it directly stated he brings these into life:

The Sage Monarch Grand Magic brought to life the dreams of all people, drawing on the ultimate meaning of both hegemons and heroes.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3; controls human defined concepts)

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The below is handing a state of being called 'Lifeless and Destructionless'.



At first I thought the below was Immortality (Type 5) but it's more like Transduality (Type 1), as it's a state of being that is neither on the life or death side of things.

What did it mean to be neither dead nor undead?

Death implied being without life. But this scholar wasn’t dead. On the other hand, he wasn’t alive, either. It was hard to say exactly what he was. Maybe he was dead, maybe he was alive. Maybe he wasn’t dead, maybe he wasn’t alive. It almost seemed like he had achieved a state of being lifeless and destructionless.

Limited Acausality (type 5) in his Lifeless and Destructionless state.​

The argument:​

In real life, if someone were to die, provided there is no afterlife, although pointless, they can reasonable be defined as being unbound by a lot of things, including causation. The state of Lifeless and destructionless is dying but at the same time you're alive since you're still present...If that makes sense.

With that out of the way...Life is referred to as suffering:

“Alright, listen up. In life, there is suffering. In fact, life is suffering. The only way to free yourself from pain is to lack life itself. So-called lifelessness is nirvanic extermination, and the death of nirvanic extermination is to become destructionless. Lifeless. Destructionless.

You can't really escape interpersonal relationships that may lead to your suffering or your own problems, so the point of the above it show how in death you escape suffering (causation).

And we get confirmation that Lifeless and Destructionless does not stimulate causality.

In fact, Yang Qi quickly drew on King Life-Killer’s sword technique, causing another rain of swords to appear, the kind that could bring nirvanic extermination to all living things, and summon that which was lifeless and destructionless from the void, neither touching nor stirring the chains of cause and effect.

Also, according to a God in the verse, literally dying causes an end to suffering. Can't suffer if you're dead and gone, smart. LMAO XD.

King Life-Killer’s name was very specific. He wasn’t King Killer, but rather, King Life-Killer. He believed that all living entities experienced the bitterness of suffering. In fact, he believed that on a person’s face, the eyebrows and eyes were the character 艹 and the nose and mouth were 古. Put them together, and it created the character for suffering 苦. The only way to be free from suffering was to exterminate life. Ending life resulted in that which was lifeless and destructionless. Only then would the world not give birth to suffering. Return everything to the starting point, cause all heaven and earth to go silent, prevent all growth, and send the universe back to a single point. That was life-killing. Lifeless and destructionless.

So in essence, in the Lifeless and Destructionless state you gain the benefits of truly dying (not interacting/stimulating causality, ending your history, etc), without actually dying.

And we see that in the lifeless destructionless state you vanish from reality as if you never existed to begin with.

“A thought brings life; with many thoughts, no life; lifeless and destructionless; a subversion of dreams….” Yang Qi’s heart continued descending into calm. The more dangerous the situation was, the less flustered he was, until he entered a state of mind that could be considered lifeless and destructionless. Not even the ancient legion of gods could easily enter a state like this; it was the kind of thing that could be encountered by chance, but never searched for and found. With life came destruction. But at the same time, with lifelessness came a lack of destruction.

Life and destruction comprised the rhythm of existence.

“Attack!” The ten streams of power blasted their way into Yang Qi’s sea of consciousness, only to find that it was absolutely empty. There was no soul there, no will, no true energy, and no physical matter. It was as if Yang Qi didn’t exist at all. It wasn’t that he had died, but rather as though he’d never existed at all.

He had entered a majestic state of being that was attainable only by Fateless Ones. Lifeless and destructionless. Endless nirvanic rebirth. It had nothing to do with King Immortal-Slayer's legacy medallions, the God Legion Seal, or the Cruiser of Civilization. This was Yang Qi’s power and constitution.

“Why can’t we find the brat’s soul?”

“He has no will?”

“He's a Fateless One! I can’t believe he actually entered the level of being lifeless and destructionless! Without our true selves to provide power, we won’t be able to possess him. But we should be able to find the God Legion Seal and take it away from him.”

Not to mention how a move was used against the MC that could not be dodged nor defended against at the time, he went into a lifeless and destructionless state and the attack could not touch him. Which is hopefully an example of how the quotes above imply you can't be interacted with.

Minor: Immortality (Type 8) for Proud Heaven. ​

• His standard equipment, the Great Necropolis has inheritors based on seeds received by it, however, Proud Heaven took the first and real seed, making him the true inheritor. Only an inheritor can kill another inheritor. And an inheritor will exist so long as the Great Necropolis exists, even their soul being one with the Great Necropolis.

Proposal:​

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3)​

Transduality (Type 1)​

Limited Acausality (Type 5)​

Immortality (Type 8) for Proud Heaven​

Accepted:​

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3)​

Immortality (Type 8) for Proud Heaven​

Low 1-C, Possibly 1-C range upgrade for Yang Qi​

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Edited and added immortality (type 8) for Proud Heaven.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess these changes seem fine. Acausality Type 5 might need more inputs.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

For Acausality type 5, that was my conclusion, I'm open to suggestions of how to label it. Definitely more than what I've presented of it can be deduced. Probably more if I used IRL Buddhism (suffering or sea of suffering is mentioned IIRC).

To expand on it, imagine an ocean that represents life. Everyone is swimming in it but this sea also represents suffering. So let's call it the sea of suffering/bitterness. To escape it you need to swim or get a boat to the other shore, right? So let's call the other shore Paramita. I called the other shore Paramita because the translator once said this. Interestingly, MC has an ability that causes the sea of suffering to appear and for the other shore of Paramita to disappear for his opponent.

Anyways, as stated in the quotes in OP, in true death, you escape this sea and in doing so, you don't interact with causality. Whether it's the consequences of your actions, interpersonal & physical interactions, etc, anything participating in cause and effect, turning the gears of life and perpetuating the sea of suffering, the state of being (lifeless and destructionless) is exempt, imitating true death.

I guess some conceptual invulnerability could also be at play. But like I said, I'm open to suggestions on how to label it.

 

[Elizhaa]

Conceptual invulnerability reworded, in this case, could a form of transduality type 1.

In any case, it is best to have more inputs. @Planck69, if you can share your thoughts, what do you think on the proposals?

 

[Planck69]

It feels more like Invulnerability and Resistance to Causality Manipulation to me. Especially considering he still acts and has effects to his actions to a degree.

Immortality (Type 8) and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) look good to me though.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

For the conceptual invulnerability part, I meant the resistance to suffering due to being outside the concept. As a result of that, they don't interact with causality. Although it was obvious since suffering is part of causality, as whatever hurt you physically and/or mentally had a cause. Which is a major reason Acausality (Type 5) came to mind.

Additionally, their resistance to suffering extends to Karma itself. When accepting faith, it also comes with karma but for Buddhism as a result of turning that faith lifeless and destructionless, the karma is destroyed.

As a representative of the original Buddha, I can accept the karma of living beings,” Archmonk Dharma Treasury said. “Compassion cometh from Buddha. You see, buddhism is an empty void. When the faith of living beings returns to that void, it becomes lifeless and destructionless. Buddhism destroys karma.

Especially considering he still acts and has effects to his actions to a degree.

It's a temporary state he's never acted without leaving it. It's more of a defensive state for his first key and for his second key, although it is possible to act...It's completely useless and unnecessary.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Also I forgot to update Yang Qi's range in the previous CRT to Low 1-C possibly 1-C (With the God Legion Seal) for his first key.

 

[Elizhaa]

invulnerability and resistance to causality manipulation or limited causality type 5 is fine with me. In any case, the former seems fine, and the latter needs more staff approval to be accepted.
The range update seems fine.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Let's try to get this finished then.

Invulnerability: (Cultivators in the Lifeless and Destruction state of being are outside of the concept of suffering, therefore cannot incur harm of any kind without either leaving this state or having the concept applied to them).

Limited Acausality (Type 5): (Within the Lifeless and Destructionless state, cultivators do not interact with causality, not even the workings of karma affecting them. At the cost of not being able to interact with reality without leaving this state of being)

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Elizhaa]

I technically could be fine with both.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

 

[Elizhaa]

Honestly, I am not against a form of compromise if possible. @Planck69 what are your thoughts on the recent posts above?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Honestly, I am against a form of compromise if possible. @Planck69 what are your thoughts on the recent posts above?

I guess I'll add all the other accepted stuff and leave the addition stuck in limbo. Not the first time it's happened. Profile needs unlocking though.

 

[Elizhaa]

My bad, I meant to say I am not against compromise. I unlocked the page.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

My bad, I meant to say I am not against compromise. I unlocked the page.

Added range and conceptual manipulation (Type 3). As for Acausality (Type 5) and the invulnerability...It probably requires more staff like you said. I honestly just wanted someone to give it a different perspective I missed.

Anyways, you can close the thread if you want. Thank you for everyone's contributions.

 

[Elizhaa]

Sure, I locked the page. Invulnerability is fine; I think the changes like Planck69 stated could be applied. Limited Acausality Type 5 would need more inputs.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Okay, I'll add Invulnerability later.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Okay, I'll add Invulnerability later.

I tried to add it but the profile is locked lol.

Anyways, since I'd rather not create another CRT for a while, I'll quickly handle this now.

Firstly, I'll be adding this explanation on Yang Qi's profile:


Yang Qi lacks mind manipulation, however, he has it in the form of manipulating souls, wills, nascent divinities.

God Legion Seal​

The God Legion Seal is an item/entity created by the Sovereign Lord to control the Gods. It is an item that houses a throne for every God that offered prayer, the throne being the representation of their being. No God whose throne is housed within the God Legion Seal can fight against it nor harm the bearer of the God Legion Seal as it controls every aspect of their being, even auditing their thoughts to automatically remove any evil/negative thoughts towards the bearer of the God Legion Seal. Aside from this aspect of it's nature, the God Legion Seal itself has considerable strength of it's own, although not to the degree of King Immortal-Slayer, who had broken it into 3 pieces.

Those 3 pieces fell into the lower worlds. One piece to stay eternally in the past, one piece in the present and one piece in the future. The piece in the present came into the possession of Yang Qi, who later collects all 3 pieces and combines them.

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Secondly, Yang Qi should have NEP (aspect 5) from the previous-previous thread for his metaphysical aspects such as his will, life/essence, destiny (not fate), nascent divinity, etc. This also extends to his fateless constitution (what makes him exist outside history). The statement of everything about them becoming non-existent is linked on his profile.

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Thirdly in OP, Lifeless & Destructionless is also NEP. Since it's a state in which it is a void lacking even the void, completely annulled and without form. But I won't be adding it, since it's unnecessary & he already has it in his second key but I thought I'd make a note of it in this thread.

 

[Elizhaa]

The changes seem fine. I unlocked the page.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

You can lock the thread and profile. Thank you.

 

[Elizhaa]

Glad to help. I will do so.