Some minor resistance updates for Pre DOS Superman

[Emirp sumitpo]

I noticed Pre DOS Superman doesn't have resistance to Darkseid's Omega Beams, which is odd, so I'm gonna fix that, I'll also add another thing.

Existence Erasure & Causality Manipulation (Resisted Omega Beams from Darkseid) - Action Comics #586. This should have the same reasoning as his Post DOS key, as it's the same situation. And while you might argue Darkseid only wanted to torture Superman, he makes it very clear that he wants Superman dead when he yells "In your grave" in the panel above.

Matter Manipulation

• Survives Omega Beams attuned to his specific molecular structure - Action Comics #586
• Endures being within the Swarm, which decimates planets by eating all bio-organisms - Superman #67
• A molecular disruptor has no effect on him - Superman: The Man of Steel #12

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[AerrowStorm1]

I disagree with the existence erasure. He's not resisting them, Darkseid EXPLICTLY says "The Omega Force is spent. It will take time to return to full potency".

This isn't Superman resisting it, this is the beam's simply not being strong enough to do their usual thing after Darkseid got hit with his own blast.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I disagree with the existence erasure. He's not resisting them, Darkseid EXPLICTLY says "The Omega Force is spent. It will take time to return to full potency".

This isn't Superman resisting it, this is the beam's simply not being strong enough to do their usual thing after Darkseid got hit with his own blast.

Same thought, the rest is fine tho

 

[Armorchompy]

yeah, i agree with storm

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I disagree with the existence erasure. He's not resisting them, Darkseid EXPLICTLY says "The Omega Force is spent. It will take time to return to full potency".

This isn't Superman resisting it, this is the beam's simply not being strong enough to do their usual thing after Darkseid got hit with his own blast.

Fair nuff, there's already another example anyway.

Superman endures the Omega Beams from Darkseid in Superman: Confidential #10. Mind you, this is their earliest confrontation, as in Superman: Confidential #8, Superman had no idea who had Darkseid is.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Bump

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I noticed Pre DOS Superman doesn't have resistance to Darkseid's Omega Beams, which is odd, so I'm gonna fix that, I'll also add another thing.

Existence Erasure & Causality Manipulation (Resisted Omega Beams from Darkseid) - Action Comics #586. This should have the same reasoning as his Post DOS key, as it's the same situation. And while you might argue Darkseid only wanted to torture Superman, he makes it very clear that he wants Superman dead when he yells "In your grave" in the panel above.

Matter Manipulation

• Survives Omega Beams attuned to his specific molecular structure - Action Comics #586
• Endures being within the Swarm, which decimates planets by eating all bio-organisms - Superman #67
• A molecular disruptor has no effect on him - Superman: The Man of Steel #12

Fair nuff, there's already another example anyway.

Superman endures the Omega Beams from Darkseid in Superman: Confidential #10. Mind you, this is their earliest confrontation, as in Superman: Confidential #8, Superman had no idea who had Darkseid is.

Looks good

 

[Hypertornado099]

Does Darkseid tend to kill or erase people he's never met?

Survives Omega Beams attuned to his specific molecular structure - Action Comics #586

I don't think we know what this entails, its not really quantifiable. I think the other 2 feats for resistance to matter manipulation are better and should be used instead

 

[VinnyXD]

Wouldn't resisting something that effect biomass be resistance to biological manipulation?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Does Darkseid tend to kill or erase people he's never met?

He has no reason to want to spare Superman here.

I don't think we know what this entails, its not really quantifiable. I think the other 2 feats for resistance to matter manipulation are better and should be used instead

Sure, but the way it's phrase makes it pretty clear it's trying to manipulate matter in some way.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Wouldn't resisting something that effect biomass be resistance to biological manipulation?

I suppose

 

[Hypertornado099]

Now that I think about it, its probably closer to bio manipulation than matter. The swarm is basically an army of micro organisms that eat you from the inside, though I think that can be resisted with normal durability alone, so its probably not worth anything

 

[AerrowStorm1]

He has no reason to want to spare Superman here.

This is true, but he also in character usually only uses the Full Power of the Omega Beams/Erasing beams when he's been sufficiently pissed (for example, when Desaad nearly got Orion killed, when Batman came to the future and ruined his successful takeover of Earth, when a group of aliens threatened all of existence with the Oblivion bomb, when Superman and Orion ruined his plan to crush the Hunger Dogs spirit, when Virmin Vundabar tried to assassinate him and when Superman invaded Apokolips.)

He more often then not simply uses them as killing/incineration beams to deal with day-to-day problems, as shown against Doomsday, against Superman proof missiles, against the Xenomorph queen, against Granny Goodness and her Hunger dogs, against no-name Hunger Dogs and against Hank Henshaw.

While I don't doubt he was trying to KILL Superman, I doubt he was trying to ERASE him. He even states he does "no more than what must be done" to Desaad after sending the Forever people on a time trip.

 

[Shiraito983]

agree

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

This is true, but he also in character usually only uses the Full Power of the Omega Beams/Erasing beams when he's been sufficiently pissed (for example, when Desaad nearly got Orion killed, when Batman came to the future and ruined his successful takeover of Earth, when a group of aliens threatened all of existence with the Oblivion bomb, when Superman and Orion ruined his plan to crush the Hunger Dogs spirit, when Virmin Vundabar tried to assassinate him and when Superman invaded Apokolips.)

Is there anything that actually states so? His eye beams are just the omega beams by default, something he even states in Fourth World #5.

as shown against Doomsday

I don't see how this is a debunk to EE when we know the Omega Beams can be more than just EE.

against Superman proof missiles

I don't think using Darkseid destroying non living things is a good example for this case.

The other examples don't really prove anything because what's not to say they simply have resistance to EE?

While I don't doubt he was trying to KILL Superman, I doubt he was trying to ERASE him. He even states he does "no more than what must be done" to Desaad after sending the Forever people on a time trip.

I don't see why either would be mutually exclusive, when using EE would be the most effective method of getting his plans done.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

I don't see how this is a debunk to EE when we know the Omega Beams can be more than just EE.


The other examples don't really prove anything because what's not to say they simply have resistance to EE?
I don't see why either would be mutually exclusive, when using EE would be the most effective method of getting his plans done.

1. Yes, they can be more than EE. I'm simply pointing out narratively, and in character, he often uses them as simple death rays/incineration beams.

2. It's highly unlikely they have resistance to EE, as Darkseid can erase high-level New Gods with them, which would make no sense if no name Hunger Dogs can resist being erased.

3. Besides the fact that each time he's about to erase someone, he or the narrative has a big spiel on how he's using the FULL POWER of the Omega Beams to erase someone (It's even noted to be their full power, quite a few times), it also makes no sense for him, in character, to use the full power of the Omega Beams for average people, combining both his statement about only doing what must be done and no more (Remember, it would have been much more efficient to erase the Forever people, but he sent them on a time trip instead as he saw erasing them as expending too much energy for no reason), and the fact when he does erase people, he, or the narration goes on a rant about how this time it's different from the blast he used before and is the total wipeout.

Another clear example is when he was trying to kill Superman and used the Omega Beams on Supergirl. He notes that the Omega Beams reduced her to ash (yes, it later turned out she survived by being teleported away the instant before the beams hit her, but he didn't know that and was assuming she was hit by a blast meant to kill Superman) indicating he was using them as heat beams, but there will be "even less of you to bury", implying he's using their full power now that Superman's pissed him off and is going to EE him. This is a clear indication of him using them to kill people without erasing them vs. using them to erase people.

His official profile even separates incineration beams from the EE, considering "incinerate" and "annihilate" are separate" and in his who's who "Force bolts" are treated as separate from "disintegration beams".

Again, I'm not saying that Omega Beams CAN'T erase people, I'm saying Darkseid often uses them to simply kill people, and uses them to erase people when he's pissed off enough to unleash their full power.