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Some Masadaverse Upgrades.

VenomElite

VenomElite

VS Battles
Retired
1,092
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On Chat yesterday CrossverseCrisis, EvilMegaCookie, Trexalfa, and I were discussing the Masadaverse when Trex pointed out a potential upgrade in Attack Potency for certain characters in Dies Irae based off a statement in Kajiri Kamui Kagura.

The statement is simple. Keishirou Kyogetsu is much weaker than he was originally as Wilhelm Ehrenburg (Kaziklu Bey). That being said, Keishirou who is 7-A compared to Wilhelm's At least 7-B, likely higher should be changed to just 7-A. This doesn't just affect Wilhelm as he is not the strongest of the LDO. Thus, some other LDO members should be changed also to 7-A as well.

Here is the statement about Keishirou being Mountain Level:

µö¥ÒüƒÒéîÒüƒÞ▒¬Òü«ÕëúµêƒÒü½þ¿Üµ░ùÒü«µ╝ÅÒéîÒüòÒüêõ©ÇÕêçÒü¬ÒüäÒÇéÞéëõ¢ôÒüïÒéëÕêçÒéèÚøóÒüòÒéîÒüƒµ¡¬Òü┐Òü»ÒÇüÕ«╣µÿôÒüŵÂêÒüòÒéîÒüªµäÅÕæ│ÒéƵêÉÒüòÒü¼ÒÇéÕêصÆâÒüºÒüØÒéîÒéÆÞ¬ìÞ¡ÿÒüùÒüƒÒüîÒüƒÒéüÒü½µ╗¥ÒéïÕèøÒü»Õà¿Ú£èõ¢ÖÒüòÒüÜÒÇüÞç¬ÕÀ▒Òü«Õ╝ÀÕîûÒü©ÕÉæÒüæÒéëÒéîÒüªÒüäÒüƒÒÇé

"There is not even a leakage of naivety inside this unleashed weapon. The strain when Distortion was separated from the body was meaninglessly and easily erased. One can recognize that the boiling force of the first attack does leave anything to spare for whole soul was turned into self-strengthening. "

Þ¬çÕ╝ÁÒü¬ÒüÅÕ▒▒ÞäêÒüòÒüêþ®┐Õ¡öÒüÖÒéïÒüôÒü«õ©ÇµÆâÒÇéÕÀ▒Þç¬Þ║½ÒéƵءÒü¿Þ▓©ÒüùÒÇüÞ▓½µ«║ÒéƵêÉÕ░▒ÒüòÒüøÒéïÒüØÒü«þ¬üÚÇ▓Òü»ÒÇé

"It is not an exaggeration that this blow can even perforate through mountain ranges. The charge to fulfill the transmutable-killing by lending him with the stake."

Õñºµ£¿Òü«ÕªéÒüÅÕÀ¿ÕñºÒü¬ÚÖ░Òü«µØ¡ÒéÆÕÅ®Òüìõ╗ÿÒüæÒÇüÒüòÒéëÒü½µÇƵÂøÒü«õ╣▒Þê×ÒéÆÒüèÞªïÞê×ÒüäÒüÖÒéïÒÇéÞêÉÒéüÒüªÒéïÚûôÒü½µ╗൫║ÒüøÒéôÒü¿ÒÇüÕì│Õ║ºÒü½Õ«┐ÒüÖµ¡¬Òü┐ÒéÆÕà¿ÚûïÒüùÒüƒÒÇé

"He threw the stakes of the giant shadows like giant trees, coming with it is the wild dance of the angry waves. The Distortion is immediately harboring when it was fully released as the death ray is flashing while consuming."

þ®┐ÒÇüÞ▓½ÒÇüÕê║ÒÇüþâêÒÇéþºÆÚûôÒü½ÒüèÒüäÒüªµò░ÕìüÒéÆÞÂàÒüêþÖ║þöƒÒüÖÒéﵡªÕ¿üÒü«µ│óµ┐ñÒÇé

"Dig, pierce, stab, fury. The buoys of surging seas occurred beyond dozens of seconds."

ÒüØÒü«õ©ÇµÆâõ©ÇµÆâÒüîÚø▓ÒéÆÕë▓ÒéèÒÇüµÁÀÒéÆÞúéÒüìÒÇüÕ▒▒ÒéƵû¡ÒüñÒüáÒüæÒü«ÕèøÒéƵ£ëÒüùÒüªÒüäÒéïÒü«Òü»ÒééÒü»ÒéäþûæÒüäÒéêÒüåÒééÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé

"That each and every single blow has the power to split the clouds, tore through the seas, no one can doubt their power that can break/cut off even mountains."

ÕêæÕú½ÚâÄÒü«Õ«┐ÒüÖÕëøµ»àÒéÆÕÅìµÿáÒüùÒÇüþá┤ÕúèÒü«þÇæÕ©âÒü»þø┤µÆâÒüÖÒéïÒÇé

"That the direct hit of the wave of destruction is reflecting the fortitude that harbored inside Keishiro."

þÀÅÒüªÒÇüÚûôÚüòÒüäÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüµ©øÚÇÇÒééµ£ÇÕ░ÅÚÖÉÒü½ÒÇéÚ⢠ÒéÆÕà¿ÕúèÒüòÒüøÒéïÕÅ░Úó¿õ╗Ñõ©èÒü«ÒÇüÞç¬þäÂþÅ¥Þ▒íÒüòÒüêõ©èÕø×ÒéïµÜ┤ÞÖÉÒüîÕ«┐Õä║Òü«Þ║½õ¢ôÒéÆÞ╣éÞ║ÖÒüùÒüªÒÇé

"No doubt that everything is destroyed at smallest level. The body of Sukuna was inflicted by the violence that surpassed even natural phenomena, more than typhoons that can destroy whole capitals."

The next point is an upgrade I personally can argue for extensively. Some LDO members have their speeds scaled to Massively Hypersonic for different reasons. I believe they all should be scaled to Beatrice due to logic telling me they all should be able to at least keep up with her casual speed in Briah i.e. at most Massively Hypersonic instead of Supersonic. For example Kai is shown outright to be fighting Beatrice head on.

Beatricevskai

She clearly has her Briah active. However she is still the second fastest in the LDO. Lightning speed is her casual speed in Briah. She can move even faster (possibly in the Sub-Relativistic range). Because the speed of a lightning bolt through the air should be considered. Electron drift, which is the current within any conductor, including air when the voltage potential gets high enough, is in the order of 20,000 km/s. The actual speed varies with the conductor and other conditions. But most electron drifts hover between 15,000 kps and 25,000 kps.

The speed of sound also varies. But we can specify the speed of sound is 0.343333 kps. So the speed of a bolt through the air is N = 20000/.343 = Mach 58309. So if Massively Hypersonic+ caps out at Mach 8810.2 Beatrice should Sub Relativistic. Please correct me if I'm missing something.
 
Is it specifically the bolt through the air though. My senior high sensei made it very clear to us that we have studies of lightning being "Sub-Relativistic"
 
VenomElite said:
Is it specifically the bolt through the air though. My senior high sensei made it very clear to us that we have studies of lightning being "Sub-Relativistic"
Click to expand...
It is pretty specifically the speed of lightning through air, let me see if I can find the paper

EDIT: Here it is
 
As we've talked about in chat yesterday, i heartly agree with having them at just 7-A. Though HIT pointed out that it's really a big of an upgrade as they're already pretty close to the tier, it's not that far-fetched for them to be there given their feats like Wolfgang casually nuking Berlin or Wilhelm threatening to destroy the city that Ren lived in....i think. So that and of how Tubal Cain was said to able to bust a mountain, it doesn't hurt much to actually bump them further a bit to just being a solid 7-A.

Though when i think about it, wouldn't this by extension change the tiers of the 3 Commanders? Cause if they 6-B+ due to being a million times stronger than those like Beatrice, Wilhelm, and even Cain, it's possible that they too will be upgraded to something like Large Country level, which would make them end up even more powerful up in the Tier 6 range....though Reinhard is still their superior though. xD

And of course for those who can't be scaled by AP but for otherwise (i.e Spinne, Riza, and Valrian's Dura), they still get a boost in some way like the above.

As for speed, i can see MHS+ going for the characters in speed. From what i'm seeing, for those that would scale, this would pretty much make everyone MHS+ for keeping up with one another....except those like Spinne. xD *Coughs* Anyways like the one for AP, i'm also up for a speed upgrade like this too. Kai/Cain is also a regular LDO member and he himself fought and kept up with Beatrice even when she had her briah active. Considering that she becomes as fast as real lightning (i.e MHS+) and Kai kept up and traded blows with her still, there's no doubt that the other members should be of about as fast as Kai/Cain.

Looking at it though, this should also effect Ren Fuji's and Shirou's speed right? Especially Ren because he's MHS+ (i think) with EFO yet since he's likely to get boosted to here, him being MHS+ would "maybe" make EFO being MHS+ a bit redundant. I'd personally change it to like "higher with EFO" but that's just me IMO. Would like to discuss it here on what others think of it (if there's people that somewhat care enough to discuss that, i mean).
 
CrossverseCrisis said:
snip
Click to expand...
They are probably at the tier already, lol

I don't see any problems with the revision

Although I think if this comes through it would be a good idea to put EFO Ren at "At least Massively Hypersonic+"
 
@HIT: Yeah lol xD

Edit: I see. Well i didn't think of doing that either, but your idea also works too so i'll do that as well later.
 
Only me and HIT actually approved of that part, Venom. I think that the biggest one is the speed considering that we're jumping from Supersonic+ to all the way to as high as MHS+.

I'll have to highlight this to get more input. The 7-A rating isn't that much of a big deal as, like HIT and you pointed out, they may as well be 7-A given how close they are to it. As for the Commanders, i think a likely High 6-B or just High 6-B might be something we'll be looking at.

The speed is something we have to get some more input on to be on the safe side.
 
Ant, we've already rated them as "at least City level+, likely higher". I don't see why we can't upgrade them, especially that a character did something like this and commented himself that he was weaker than when he was back in the previous part of the verse story AND of how one other character was stated of busting a mountain.

Though nonetheless, you do have a good point about it. Would "At least 7-B, likely 7-A" being plausible enough?
 
@Ant

That's definitely a good point. But if I'm reading it correctly, it was also tearing apart the clouds while still retaining the force to split mountains.

But as you said, splitting mountains =/= busting mountain ranges.
 
Well, my problem is that it is kind of vague to just state that a character can bust a mountain in a book, without specifying the size. It could be anywhere from 7-C to 7-A.
 
Hmm. Fair enough then. But i still think they can very well be at that tier given Venom's reasoning.

Is the speed upgrade at least acceptable enough?
 
As long as it is scaled from 440000 m/s, I think so, yes.
 
Well Beatrice is stated to be as fast as lightning itself, which is noted on her profile here. And there are characters in the verse that can trade blows with her (ex. above pic), at least keep up with her (ex. same as before and another character), and/or even be faster than her with her ability on.

"Supersonic+ (Comparable to Wilhelm), Massively Hypersonic+ with her Briah (As fast as lightning itself)" This from her base.

So there's that?
 
Okay. That seems fine then.
 
Thank you. But as said above and just saying, along with Venom's reasoning and what i said and given other feats like i noted above, i can still the characters being possibly 7-A at the very least. But i'll concede for now (i'm not changing my mind on the possibility or likelihood of them being there, Ant). Again, i'll concede for now then on this matter of the AP. The speed is fine enough from the looks of it to me...

Anyone else on this?
 
Well, what are their current tiers? Perhaps we could add an "At least" before them?
 
I literally told you this and pointed out as well. Several characters of Dies Irae are "At least City level+, likely higher" due to being able to harm another and, most importantly of why, because they are completely impervious to any weapon mankind has ever made, which extends up to even that of the Tsar Bomba.

And of my first comment here, things like one character casually nuking Berlin and another character being able to destroy another city if he so wanted to plus the one i mentioned of a character being state of 7-A plus you have the feat above in the OP where another character was capable of breaking/or cut apart even mountains yet comments on being much weaker than how he originally was.

That's the current rating we have of them now.

"At least City level+, likely higher (The regular members of LDO are completely impervious to any weapon ever constructed by mankind, up to and including the Tsar Bomba)" This is for just about almost all of them bar the far notable ones like Reinhard and his three commanders.
 
Okay then. (I keep track of lots of different tasks at once, so it is hard for me to remember all the specifics of everything)
 
Sorry about that. But yes, the characters are at least of this tier given the description, how durable they are to other things, and how they can even harm each other with just REGULAR attacks. They can be likely higher given, once again, what i said (which is entirely of what i've managed to find while trying to revise the stats) and what Venom said.
 
Well, I am just saying that, according to our standards, the mountain busting statement does just not seem particularly specific.
 
You do realize when i say of the others, i'm not being that SPECIFIC about the mountain busting statement? I'm not just focusing on that, mind you. I literally meant that "they are rated as such without getting into the mountain busting statement, the OP's text of a character breaking/cutting apart a mountain and yet be weaker than what he originally was, and other such".
 
Beatrice is still faster than them.

"Nonetheless, all her slashes could only cut air. From the first glance, the retreating Eleonore might appear to be at a disadvantage, but her arms were still locked together, her expression still gleaming in superiority. There is no way she can seize all of the Beatrice's slashes with her eyes, for they are but momentarily glimmers of light. There is no way she can surpass the speed of lightning. Nonetheless, she dodges. Nonetheless, they can't find their target."

Eleonore: "How many times do you think I saw you dance?" The difference in experience. It might be the first time the two actually fight, but Eleonore has observed, knows the habits of her subordinate's blade. How could one not know the partner with whom they braved countless battlefields, the one responsible for protecting their back?

Even Eleonore can't keep up with Beatrice. She just knows her skill set and tactics so she's somewhat predictable. That's why she can fight her. Beatrice was likely not fighting Kai with her everything, I mean she loves him. Regardless they should still have at least a similar speed to be able to fight her. Such speed being supersonic makes no sense against Massively Hypersonic Beatrice.
 
Another worthy thing to note is perhaps this one:

þÀÅÒüªÒÇüÚûôÚüòÒüäÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüµ©øÚÇÇÒééµ£ÇÕ░ÅÚÖÉÒü½ÒÇéÚ⢠ÒéÆÕà¿ÕúèÒüòÒüøÒéïÕÅ░Úó¿õ╗Ñõ©èÒü«ÒÇüÞç¬þäÂþÅ¥Þ▒íÒüòÒüêõ©èÕø×ÒéïµÜ┤ÞÖÉÒüîÕ«┐Õä║Òü«Þ║½õ¢ôÒéÆÞ╣éÞ║ÖÒüùÒüªÒÇé

"No doubt that everything is destroyed at smallest level. The body of Sukuna was inflicted by the violence that surpassed even natural phenomena, more than typhoons that can destroy whole capitals."

Not sure how much energy that is, but I am pretty sure this at least dispels doubt about the LDO being above city level.
 
@Venom: Hmm. Well she's still MHS+ as she was able to at least keep up with her if that means anything?
 
Well, perhaps "Likely 7-A" then?
 
Well i'm fine with anything if we really do upgrade their AP. But as EMC gave us, which is also on the OP btw, that note would still put them higher in the City level tier, if not even more. Which further justifies their current tiers at the least.

Perhaps, "At least City level+, likely Mountain level" is alright?

Of course, and now i've calmed down about it, them being where they are is alright enough as is at the least but if people still think they can be bumped up a little, i'll stand on that ground instead then.
 
@Cross just add in Beatrice's AP for Briah that she is the fastest of thr LDO behind Schreiber.
 
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