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so the downstreamers are tier 0 now?

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Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
That Tier 0 is no more
Click to expand...

Tier 0: Boundless​

0 | Boundless: Characters who demonstrate an equivalence to, or can create/destroy/affect, transcendental abstract levels of existence which conceptually stand superior to even High 1-A levels. Being “omnipotent” or any similar reasoning[4] is not nearly enough to reach this tier; characters at this level must transcend High 1-A characters as High 1-Acharacters would transcend 1-A ones. This tier has no true endpoint, and can be extended unto any higher level, spiraling infinitely upwards.

Yeah, I am awfully curious now at what exactly got changed for Tier 0.
 
Rest are fodder baselines, Azzy and yoggy are both 1 times, some movie characters are like 2 pr 3 times above, idk how far WoD is and manifold is basically a vsbw version of an accepted mathiverse
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
You said it doesnt have a baseline. It does.

Previously, it didn't, since all Tier 0s were all the same.
Click to expand...
I have to ask Ultima Reality in this regard since I did said it didn’t have a baseline till the revisions.


“Is it? Tier 0 doesn’t have a true baseline or at least it didn’t in the former Tiering system prior to the Tier revisions of recent times by Ultima and other things.”
 
As you should know, the baseline is any character who conceptually stands above the framework of a High 1-A hierarchy and any extensions that comes out of it. Any character who is one transcendence above this level is not baseline anymore.
 
That doesn’t explain much like at all aside from the purely abstract mathematics stuff and not much from the scientific perspective, but other than that, still not seeing how it is not suggverse in a way in saying “This Tier 0 is stronger than Character X Tier 0” tbh.
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
Because Tier 0 starts at Mahlo Cardinal (or so I was told). And as you know, there are several other cardinals above Mahlo. Dozens.
Click to expand...
Wait, what?

My head is already hurt due to the ridiculous complexity of the Tier 0 has be.

“Mathematically, 1-A has its size represented by further uncountably infinite cardinals beyond useful applications of certain measures (ℵ2 and onwards, most specifically) and can be extended unto greater levels of infinity, representing different complexities or qualitative "steps" on an Outerversal scale, in the same way 1-B and 1-C are divided. Characters who stand an infinite number of steps above "Baseline" Outerversal realms and structures are to have a + modifier in their Attack Potency section (Outerverse level+)”

Also according to the Tiering System, Cardinals starts at Tier 1A or something.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Also according to the Tiering System, Cardinals starts at Tier 1A or something.
Click to expand...
Aleph starts there, aleph 1 is basically uncountable infinite dimensions, or layers which show any sort of metaphysical or size(uncountable infinite bigger than lower to be precise) superiority, going all the way up to aleph omega which is 1-A+, there are lot of more stuff in between.

Mahlo cardinal is an innaccesible cardinal.

Also **** conceptual trascendence, metaphysics are wanked, long live chad math
 
ImNot4nUser said:
Mahlo cardinal is an innaccesible cardinal.
Click to expand...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahlo_cardinal


“In mathematics, a Mahlo cardinal is a certain kind of large cardinal number. Mahlo cardinals were first described by Paul Mahlo (1911, 1912, 1913). As with all large cardinals, none of these varieties of Mahlo cardinals can be proved to exist by ZFC (assuming ZFC is consistent).

A cardinal number
\kappa
is called strongly Mahlo if
\kappa
is strongly inaccessible and the set
{\displaystyle U=\{\lambda <\kappa \mid \lambda {\text{ is strongly inaccessible}}\}}
is stationary in κ.

A cardinal
\kappa
is called weakly Mahlo if
\kappa
is weakly inaccessible and the set of weakly inaccessible cardinals less than
\kappa
is stationary in
\kappa
.

The term "Mahlo cardinal" now usually means "strongly Mahlo cardinal", though the cardinals originally considered by Mahlo were weakly Mahlo cardinals.”

It seems like it is normally inaccessible, but I digress as my head does hurt a little tbh.
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
They are the strongest Tier 0 the wiki has right now
Click to expand...

Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
Yes
Click to expand...
Pepsiman25th said:
All other tier 0s are fodder baselines, then theres cthulhu mythos, then stronger than them are twin speaks then manifold trilogy
Click to expand...

Why do you think so?
Right now there are 18 tier 0 characters on the wiki
And only 6 of these 18 characters have type 4 transduality:

Azathoth (Cthulhu Mythos)​

The Amaranth​

The Fireman​

JUDY​

God (Unsong)​

Kaito(Isekai Cocaine)​


As you see, neither Downstreamers nor The Goddess of The Manifold is here.
 
1. Transduality doesn't dictate power.
2. The Downstreamers scale to Woodin Cardinals, something far above every other Tier 0, who don't even get past Mahlo Cardinals
3. This
4. They should have Type 4 as well
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
The Downstreamers scale to Woodin Cardinals, something far above every other Tier 0, who don't even get past Mahlo Cardinals
Click to expand...

Yog-Sothoth's description:
["It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self--not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep--the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign--yet in a flash the Carter-facet realized how slight and fractional all these conceptions are.]
 
We don't accept statements like that, otherwise we'd have quite a bit of Tier 0s that scales above every cardinal possible via a two-word sentence, or simply because they are "above math". Cthulhu Mythos is mostly baseline Tier 0 rn (i.e Mahlo).

Plus:
Similarly, existing "beyond all logic and mathematics" does not allow to automatically qualify for this tier, as such a statement is fundamentally unprovable in the context of an indexing wiki. At most, such feats can be quantified based on how far mathematics extend into the verse in question.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
question why aren't the downstreamers omniscient.


In the profile it just says nigh-omniscience.


didn't the intelligence page say they were omniscient?
 
If a simple "beyond maths" statement was enough to make someone the strongest tier 0, then omnipotence statements would be valid too. The wiki doesn't work on NLF like that.

Also funny thing I know Cthulhu Mythos is the wiki's baby but the guy who spoke that "beyond maths" statement didn't even know about the existence of infinite higher dimensions(or how higher dimensions even work) at that point in the story.
 
just wondering guys


is there any possible opponents for the downstreamers? (i am hoping to make a possible matchup for them)

Obviously it's going to base key downstreamers since they are tier 2.
 
Darksmash said:
If a simple "beyond maths" statement was enough to make someone the strongest tier 0, then omnipotence statements would be valid too. The wiki doesn't work on NLF like that.

Also funny thing I know Cthulhu Mythos is the wiki's baby but the guy who spoke that "beyond maths" statement didn't even know about the existence of infinite higher dimensions(or how higher dimensions even work) at that point in the story.
Click to expand...
Can anything even be beyond maths?
 
One question.
How many times The Downstreamers and/or The Goddess of Manifold?
For example, in Cthulhu Mythos, The Supreme Archetype (the true form of Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth) transcend the true aspect of Shub-Nigurath or The Clear Light of Twin Peak that transcend the "God". The Clear Light and The Supreme Archetype transcend one time a normal Tier 0 Being.
Thanks.
 
JmikaelP said:
One question.
How many times The Downstreamers and/or The Goddess of Manifold?
For example, in Cthulhu Mythos, The Supreme Archetype (the true form of Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth) transcend the true aspect of Shub-Nigurath or The Clear Light of Twin Peak that transcend the "God". The Clear Light and The Supreme Archetype transcend one time a normal Tier 0 Being.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Are you asking how many levels of transcendence they are over baseline?

If so, a lot. The gap between Monarch of Pointland and Azathoth is too small to compare to the gap between baseline Tier 0 and The Downstreamers.
 
Then, in a hypothetical case, How I can explain the power of a being like The Goddess of Manifold and The Downstreamers?
Another question.
Who is the most powerful being in World of Darkness and how many times it transcend a normal Tier 0 being?
Thanks.
 
JmikaelP said:
Then, in a hypothetical case, How I can explain the power of a being like The Goddess of Manifold and The Downstreamers?
Another question.
Who is the most powerful being in World of Darkness and how many times it transcend a normal Tier 0 being?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
my question as well because udlmaster has said infinitely into tier 0 and 3 layers. both are greater than all other tier 0s
 
WOD is the stronger tier 0 verse, 3 layers over baseline (how on earth did anyone think they were infinitely into tier 0)
Then everything else i don't really care about

Unironically Manifold should be tier 0. Just that the wiki has a stick up their butt about type IV's. So don't regard my downgrade as Downstreamers true power level. They are 100% not L1-A, but my hands are tied in that regard. There are probably legitmate verses out there (not shitty fanfic) that's far stronger then anything here, but is buried deep in the internet.

i could have made the verse tier 0 again if it weren't for the transduality type 3 changes no longer being auto 1-A
 
Jibz said:
WOD is the stronger tier 0 verse, 3 layers over baseline (how on earth did anyone think they were infinitely into tier 0)
Then everything else i don't really care about

Unironically Manifold should be tier 0. Just that the wiki has a stick up their butt about type IV's. So don't regard my downgrade as Downstreamers true power level. They are 100% not L1-A, but my hands are tied in that regard. There are probably legitmate verses out there (not shitty fanfic) that's far stronger then anything here, but is buried deep in the internet.

i could have made the verse tier 0 again if it weren't for the transduality type 3 changes no longer being auto 1-A
Click to expand...

you sure that manifold should be tier 0?

also wonder when WOD ends up getting downgraded

i feel like all tier 0's are hanging by a thread. cause all it takes is just something and they stop being tier 0. (cause dimensional tiering gets really wonky)
 
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