SMITE tier revision

[ArkhamDC06]

Matthew Schroeder What would you suggest to do then ?

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

That's a good question. Cause unless we compromise wr still don't have a concrete agreement.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

So nothing new ?

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask Mr. Bambu to comment here as well.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No it not? One CLEARLY has a very good amount of scaling, lore, and story feats to back it up, and the other is MASSIVE downplay.

There's like one solid Low 2-C feat.

There's more than a few Tier 8 feats.

Simply due to purely numerical statistics, one is more accurate than the other if you want to be pedantic.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You should ask Mr. Bambu to comment here as well.

Delete the SMITE verse. It's nothing but a mistake.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

Ummmm first off: There are SEVERAL low -C feats. chronos, Neith, and Olorun are all capable of shaping universes.

Also many charachters have been shown and stated to scale around Neith and Olorun. Power scaling shows that a lot of the gods are on a similar basic level of power. Need I make the Cloud vs Sephiroth comparison again? Cause its a very apt one to use here. There are SO many pages on this wiki where a character is powere scaled to another through combat, lore, and statements. But NOOOOO that apparently gets thrown out with THIS one verse. When literally ALL the freaking gods are not only shown to be on a similar power tier, given some variances, through scaling, combat, and basic logic, on top of literally all coming from the same place and drawing power from and fueling their immortality from the same source....seriously it's BASIC AND CONSISTENT LOGIC....Do I really have to keep uses ither verses this wiki has done as reference? Cause I can.

Megaman: planet level: has had NO planetary feats of his own, but we scale him to Sun star and duo who DO have planet level feets.

Cloud: never busted a solar system in his life, but fought solar system busting Sephiroth.

So by example, Loki, who with a bit of tag teaming, mamaged to WOUND AND KILL ZEUS, who himself has been directly comapred in power to Olorun BY HIS OWN WIFE HERA, meaning, by basic power scaling logic and how this website works with so many other franchises, Loki should be on a tier RELATIVE to Zeus. Neith, who is capable of weaving the universe into existences, along with Athena and Mercury, did worse against Loki with Zeus' power than Loki and his team did against Zeus. But nah...lets just make all those like Loki who have shown to scale to low 2-C several times in this storyline less than what they have shown to be.

Sorry if this is sounding like animosity, cause that's not my intent, but it BAFFLES me that, given the consistency of scaling among the characters and how this freaking wiki works, that people are so damned against what is the more logical power scale. I don't get it at all. Like, how the freaking hell are you supposed to have me buy into Loki, Hel, and Ao Kuang only being star level when the three of them together KILLED ZEUS, Zeus who again has been compared to Olorun in power. Three star levels does not kill a universe level. But nah....lets just make them all freaking star level for the sake of avoiding low 2-C scaling....

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Everything I said before still applies. I've been asked many times to comment here and I feel like I have a good enough understanding of both camps and both could be considered valid.

I will say that the 2-C quote is bunk and can mean a lot of things, even if we ignore the fact that skins shouldn't get tiers based on their one-liners.

Some misconceptions here though. Neith never did a Low 2-C feat and Chronos Low 2-C feat is sorta iffy. Olorun absolutely has a Low 2-C feat and you could try to argue others do too but the only really solid one is Olorun.

I'm not interested in going in circles so if we are to reach a consensus here with me included then we need to decide if we're cool with stomaching scaling everybody to the guy that's flat out stated vastly stronger than everyone else except for guys like Zeus and Odin.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

But there have been NUMEROUS others who scale to Zeus, Odin, and other pantheon heads! And clearly he isn't THAT vastly stronger if events in the underworld are anything to go by. And omfg....even in her lore it's stated ahe wove the universe itself into existence. And if you wanna go with the "but she sprang from the minds of mortals" thing, then Olorun likely did to. And mortals MADE these gods and their stories from a desire to find the truths of the world around them. To these gods and the mortals, they should have that power that is stated in their lore. And guess what? Others have managed to either contend with them or have scaled to them or have fought or scaled to those who have fought or scales to them.

Olorun has been PROVEN to not be as powerful or as smart as we thought. Persephone has the advantage. Cerberus was able to wound, poison, and batter him around. His energy is drained. Zeus and Odin, whom were directly compared to him by Hera, who I'm pretty sure is credible as to how powerful her husband is. She more or less alluded to his wisdom, power, and temperament TOGETHER that would Humble Zeus. But in terms of power alone, he was compared to Odin and Zeus in a way that only sounded like he was a bit stronger. Not vastly. And....lets run through the list of fails and blunders of Zeus and Odin, shall we?

Odin: got kicked around by some basic bitch frost giants. Needed help from Hera, where his SON was taking on an ARMY of them and slaying dozens of them before needing help.

Zeus: The dude is TERRIFIED of the likes of Nox and Nemesis. It was implied without Nike he'd have lost the war of antiquity. And then there is his murder and imprisonment.

Oh and lets go over OLORUN.

The dude, who saw everyting supposedly from his place in the void of space, was repeatedly tricked and caught off guard by Persephone in the underworld and was blindsided by Cerberus. If he was so VASTLY powerful, the SLIGHT nerf to defense from Cerberus WOULD NOT have mattered much at all.

Oh and if h3 is vastly ateonger then EVERYONE, then how do you explain Jormungandr? Or Excalibur which was one if the few things capable of harming him? Or how about Thor again, who without the power of Ragnarok, by Jormungandr's own lore, would have drawn in a battle to the death against the big serpent.

That's just a SMALL list of blunders from Olorun and two scaled directly to him. But nah....let's just treat him as omnipotent compared to everyone....when that's clearly not the case and the man has flaws.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

As for a consensus, I've beaten my points, their logical backing from combat, lore, and scaling from them with basic logic to the point I'm frustrated. We've been at this for what, a MONTH now? On two threads? And we've gone NOWHERE. As much as I wanna see this verse get it's proper treatment, I've grown tired and frustrated with things not going anywhere. Nothing anyone has said has convinced me against my points, and apparently everyone else seems to have this thing against Low 2-C scaling which, to me, has far more going FOR it than against it. I'm almost to the point of just giving up on this and saying do whatever, but I won't, cause I'm too damn stubborn and wanna see one of my favorite verses get the proper treatment I feel it deserves from me having constantly reread it's story and lore multiple times to form a scale that made sense to me.

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Mr. Bambu's sense of judgement.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Matthew I'm getting tired of this myself BUT I'M STRONGLY AGAINST DELETING VERSE. I know, i'm not an admin so if you decide it, i won't have any word to say but this is not a good option especially considering we're geting so close to finally end this with ideas that are more or less all valuable in their own ways.

Bambu I know, you're tired of repeating yourself and i understand but i need to ask some finale questions. Your system would be Low 2-C, High 4-C and 7-A. Would Olorun be the only Low 2-C tier or should the other pantheon leaders and Chronos scale to him ? The High 4-C thing does come from Hou Yi shooting nine suns right ? What about an early idea i have of making the regular gods "At least High 4-C, possibly Low 2-C" wich would make them capable of struggling against the pantheon leaders to an extent while still being weaker than them ? For the monsters, would it be 7-A or "At least 7-A, likely higher" ? Shouldn' Fenrir and Hades get a key for their Ragnarök-amped self (this is story-wise, even the Ragnarök skin Hades) ?

Also shouldn't Jörmmungandr be counted as Low 2-C due to his lore and his story and the Odyssey ?

So Antvasima, i know you're on Bambu's side but what do you think about Aldamore's idea ? And, most important, do you think you and possibly other admins should be like "Whe chose" and end this ? I know this is extreme but at this point, this seems to be the only way out and if this allows the verse to exist, then i'm ok with this, especially since (again) more or less every opinion has good point.

 

[Antvasima]

I am afraid that I do not remember his idea. My apologies,

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

I'd be fine with all the characters being labeled as "likely low 2-C". That at least gives those of us, like me, who STRONGLY view low 2-C as the more consistent scale the option to use them as such. At least that gives the consistent scaling from within the series' fights, story, and lore some ACTUAL consideration rather than tossing it out, for rather arbitrary reasons, as if it was trash. But, it also gives those of us who don't agree with it the option to not use it.

Wow. I'm starting to sound condescending even to myself ^^;

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I'm not sure if the "likely" part would be accepted especially since the idea is to make speration as clear as possible between the gods, hence why is proposed "possibly" instead, but i would be fine with it to.

For the rest, i need to see if Bambu, athew or anyone else still interested into this could accept that and i still need some precisions about Bambu's system (sorry but it's more likely this will be the one accepted) just to be sure i understood everything. So i hope we'll get an answer.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

At this point, I'd just be happy to have the option to still use my scaling even if its just as a "likely" or "possibly". I'm getting worn down on this topic and as much as I'd PREFER to see low 2-C given to all those who scale, this needs to be settled eventually.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Yeah. Note that if Bambu's system is used, monsters and humans (aside from Fenrir and Jor at least) will be "At least 7-A, likely higher" though. We can still discuss about Merlin however.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

Ok, if Arthur with Excalibur is somehow ONLY 7-A that will be absolutely stupid, no offence to him given he was able to keep up with gods and carve a gaping wound into Jormungandr. And likely Achilles to, who in his god lore was basically implied to be capable of taking on gods if he fought seriously, what with god forged equipment, being a demigod, and his "invulnerability" being something the gods fear. And with Persephone's scheme to give mortals a boost, they could likely be stronger soon, especially since Mulan is confirmed, adding creedence to the fact certain mortals may be elevated to god tier in terms of capability. We will have to see about that though. Oh and almost forgot Baba Yaga who is either just a witch or a witch/goddess combo. So we shal have to see how they scale. But Arthur and Achilles, Arthur especially so, have arguments for being higher tier. And monsters....yeah none of them outside of Fenrir, Jormungandr, and Cerberus have been featured in the story or against any gods in lore to really scale them admittedly.

And Merlin. He isn't even mortal in smite. Merlin is a GOD, just from a previous cycle. I'm annoyed people keep calling him a mortal when he isn't.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Gaara is wrong. Clearly neither Arthur nor Merlin have feats on that level.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

What?...Arthur literally almsot KILLED Jormungandr with Excalibur! And Jormungandr is the thing that's murdered numerous gods across countless cycles with even pantheon heads like Odin and Ra not meaning much to him! And Merlin is literally the one who was capable of binding the damn thing and was responsible for forging Excalibur, and was the only one able to rip the power of ragnarok from Jormungandr. Yeah, sure, NO feats....also Arthur was powerful enough with his sword that Jormungandr initially thought he was a god, and Merlin has in canon stated to BE one.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

Arthur greatly wounded him and Merlin has spells capable of halting and hindering the damned thing who slaughtered countless pantheons across many cycles of creation and made the blade capable of harming him through energy manipulation. Both clearly have abilities on that level. But nah....just say I'm wrong without ANYTHING to support my being wrong. Especially with Arthur.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Like i said, we'll have to wait, at leats for finally having some system.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

I just hope its soon cause I'm actually starting to get very frustrated with having to keep going on and on and on and about the same damn feats, lore, and scaling that I've given more of for said scaling than everyone who has been arguing against it....I just wanna get this over with at this point. And there is....whatever THAT was just a few posts above.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I'm getting frustrated to but at least, we're possibly getting to the end of this. I have profiles ready since a month by now, the only thing i need is the tier system.

Note : So all the gods will basically have Immortality (Type 1, 2 and 4) right ?

 

[God_Aldamore]

@ArkhamDC06 for immortality I would agree

also @ArkhamDC06 I agree with the tiering. At this rate I'm going to ask the members that are actively commenting to vote Low 2-C everyone and be done with it so we can actually get stuff done

 

[ArkhamDC06]

God Aldamore So we would have Low 2-C for Olorun and Pantheon Leaders maybe, "At least High 4-C, possibly Low 2-C" for regular gods and "At least 7-A, likely higher" for the monsters and mortals right ?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If the original suggestion I made was used, no, Olorun wouldn't be the only Low 2C. I proposed scaling him to Zeus and Odin, and continue scaling from there. High 4C was from Hou Yi shooting down nine suns and Artio being the embodiment of Ursa Minor (or Major, don't remember) w Hinch is made of nine stars.

Fenny and other Ragnarok people should be considered stronger during Ragnarok.

 

[Antvasima]

Mr. Bambu seems to make sense.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Bambu All right then. So all the pantheon leaders would be Low 2-C as well as everyone who scale.

Also, what do you think about putting the regular gods to "At least High 4-C, possibly Low 2-C" instead of simply making them High 4-C ? Do you think it could work with your system ?

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

I'd say likely low 2-C, not possibly. Though at this do I really need to stress the point of them FAR more than likely scaling to low 2-C than not? "At least high 4-C, likely Low 2-C" sounds like a fair compromise. And no. 7-A is gonna be freaking stupid, especially when the monsters eventually get shown to be able to fight gods, and we have mortals like Arthur and Achilles. Mulan....I'll give you that one unless the story gives her some kind of amp to place her on god tier. But if you honestly expect me to believe that Arthur is freaking 7-A, then you're high on something.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

No need to be angry about it. I'dsay we should put them to "At least 7-A, likely higher" like Cabrakan is currently but first, i want to know what Bambu think about the "At least High 4-C, possibly (or likely) Low 2-C" thing.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

Sorry, just still annoyed about that one guy.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Have to wait to see what happens.

So Bambu what do you think about this ?

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

We have Heimdallr's video and god bio.


He also has forseight, able to predict attacks, and can sense when harmful presences are nearing. His forseight, similar to a certain Marvel character named Taskmaster, has difficulties with only the most unpredictable or skilled of foes, explaining his rivalry of sorts with Loki. Also he was either born of, or connected to the great tree itself.


And from other official sources, he can see either across the nine realms or hundreds of leagues. He can hear thinds from the faintest of sounds like grass growing or whispers of the dead, to hearing every scholar speak. He can also see invisible foes, weapon creation, dimensional trav via the bifrost and portals, and more. Heimdallr is DEFINITELY someone not to **** with.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Just saw it. Loved it. I would also add Limited Light Manipulation via Piercing Sight, Sound Manipulation/Vibration Manipulation, Summoning (Can summon the Bifrost) and BFR via his ultimate. I'm preparing his profile for when it will be ready.

Anything new from Bambu so he could answer and we could maybe finally get rid of this ?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Bambu So what do you think about the idea of "At least High 4-C, possibly Low 2-C" for regular gods ? I know, you already gave your opinion but we might be able to finally end this after that ?

Or maybe Antvasima ? I know you're not very knowledgable on this verse but i want to know if you think this could be good ?

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

I'm fine with it myself. Not SUPER excited that it coule come down to that, but at LEAST it gives those who prefer the low 2-C scaling the option to use it, and could end this back and forth arguing.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Then taht means that if we get an answer to this, we could finally start to make profiles.

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

Hopefully

 

[Antvasima]

You can politely remind Mr. Bambu about this thread if he does not reply in a few days.