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Smite Revisions?

1. Low 2C Zeus is scaled to Olorun since Odyssey literally states Olorun is equal in power to Zeus or Odin.

2. Where does it say Nox can kill him? It talks about making a dude sleep with the context being a character that is the mother of dreams, this sounds like hax.

3. Why do we assume in game versions are arbitrarily weaker than their lore showings?
 
@Mr. Bambu

A big part of the backstory is that the Age of the Gods are ending due to humans abandoning then and now they're battling it out for supremacy.
 
A big part of the story is also that Zeus is dormant and doesn't have an AP during the game. Since the dude is "dead" or whatever we consider the people Persephone has negged. So I guess the better question would be- why do we give Zeus a key for a time when he's dormant? If this is better displayed in way older Odysseys then that's grand, just point me in the direction of the lore and I'll leaf through it. Only been playing for a few months.
 
I'm gonna need that excerpt from the Odysseus where it states Olorun, Zeus, and Odin are equal.

Also it's not an assumption their in game selfs are weaker, it's pretty much the base theme of the game.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
SMITE Lore is... Very scattered honestly. More so than LoL
Click to expand...
Sure, I'm moreso just asking if you know which Odyssey event had all this lore.

Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
I'm gonna need that excerpt from the Odysseus where it states Olorun, Zeus, and Odin are equal.
Click to expand...
Persephone felt a wave of power radiate from Olorun as he rose. From his expression, she could tell that Hades felt it as well. The new king of Olympus had all the strength of Zeus or Odin. A god among gods. To confront him openly would be foolish, if not suicidal. It was no wonder Set had made himself scarce, and that Bellona and the other, more belligerent gods had not issued the expected challenges.
~ Odyssey: Underworld Lore, Part I​
 
Any relevant lore source would help me, then, if you could remember where it actually was stated. Like WoG would even be fine if it was reliable. As long as it isn't in the comics since those things are wildly inconsistent with everything else.
 
Why do you see dormant in what she does to him ? Sleep can mean anything and again, everything indicates she can KILL him and the other deities. The lore talks about a sleep without dreams as a metaphor for death. I don't understand why the words "sleep" and "dreams" are taken in their literal sense when it's obviously an expression for death ?

Aside from that, i don't really know about the weaker form thing. The comics mention the gods need prayers but i don't know if the rest of the game does. In any case, the statement about Olorun sounds correct (though where does it come from ?).
 
You admit it can mean other things and still say it has to be Low 2C. I see sleep meaning literal sleep because of her status as the mother of things like Dreams. Meaning it takes no assumptions to take the text literally, Occam's Razor.

The statement is from Odyssey: Underworld, Part 1. Posted the source at the end of the quote.
 
That doesn't mean Zeus and Odin are Low 2-C. It says Olorun is > Both of them which is a known fact. If Zeus and Odin were equal to him then Olorun existence serves no purpose at all. The whole point of his existence is that he's > the other gods and the ideal ruler of Olympus.
 
...it doesn't say that though?
 
Just red it. Olorun is clearly described as more powerful than Odin and Zeus. Alos, the Cerberus feat against him is clearly due to poison.
 
He literally still isn't though. The text makes the following power comparison:

"The new king of Olympus had all the strength of Zeus or Odin." (Note that it doesn't say Zeus and Odin, it says one or the other. Not both. I feel like this has been skipped over.)

"To confront him openly would be foolish, if not suicidal." (Speaking from the viewpoint of Persephone, a normal god, this still makes sense.)

Nothing else is said in that chapter of Odyssey: Underworld. So where are you getting your information from that Olorun = All of the other big gods combined when he is directly compared to a single one? I'm interested.
 
And, please, when you answer, give a source. I'm growing tired of just hearing your take on what is literally spelled out. I don't mean to sound rude. I'm just asking you do the same thing for me that I do for you- provide a source to what you're saying since you claim it's literally from the same chapter I'm looking at right now. A quote, or something.

If it were a scenario like Matt where a vague recollection is had and he can't remember, sure, but I am not expected to accept Matt's ideas as fully 100% true. You assert that your claims are undeniably true despite not giving any quote, just changing the meaning of the words. So please, enlighten me. I'd like to get this CRT over with.
 
The Underworld Odyssey (Chapter 1) mentions Amaterasu and Ra among the gods Olorun now rules over, with him giving them various tasks like Ra as an ambassador for him to the other pantheons, wich indicates he obeys him. Now, this could be a sign of appreciation but it's more likely he is simply more powerful than them.

I also searched for other stuffs, like the "A Closer look" article about him. The developpers state "He does not directly participate in any human rituals, nor does he have any shrines or sacrifices dedicated to him" wich makes him (along with Chronos who is time itself and Chernobog who kills his own followers for fun so it's clear he doesn't need them to be powerful) the only god to not rely on worshipping while the others (including gods like Zeus or Odin) do.

In the same article, the devs states that he becomes the new King of Olympus but also the ruler of the gods. He is stated to be the winner of the Battle for Olympus and its explained that "Olorun's divine cosmic magic is awe-inspiring to the other gods, and his ability to stifle conflicts are quickly demonstrated." He is also described as "an all-encompassing symbol of divinity and creation itself."

Now this tends to confirm that he is more powerful than the other gods, as Top Gods like Ra, Amaterasu or Kukulkan (though i'm not sure if he really is the Top Mayan God in the lore) obey him, he doesn't need worshippers and is the only god with Chronos to control tim (and as spelled out by the Closer Look article "And this time, when we say slow, we don't just mean the movement speed debuff, we mean time itself".

Link ot the "Closer Look" : https://www.smitegame.com/news/olorun-a-closer-look

"I'd like to get this CRT over with." Trust me, i don't think you're the only one.
 
And no, you're not rude or anything. I still disagree with Nox but it's another thing and for now, i think we should focus on the more general matters, just that we can finally end this, edit the already existing profiles and add new ones.

Btw, do you intend to make specific profiles for that verse ?
 
1. The President of the United States rules over many soldiers that are physically more impressive than themselves. As does the Prime Minister of England and every other political leader. Sitting on the throne does not mean he's infinitely superior to each of the previous occupants of the throne when it never says that, and in fact very explicitly says he is equal to those former occupants.

2. Not relying on the same "fuel source" as other gods doesn't have any relevance here literally at all. It doesn't matter when determining his attack potency unless you can establish a link, something you seem to believe exists but have done nothing to actually prove. The fact of the matter is that he is still stated to be equal to Zeus and Odin.

3. His might is impressive, obviously. Impressive, say, on the lines of Zeus or Odin, the two he is compared to.

4. Yeah, I'd like to make profiles but first let's actually solidify this stuff, yeah?
 
2. Still gives him an advantage over ther other gods.but i think you convinced me.

4. Yeah right, just wanted to know what profiles you wanted to make exactly because i said above some days ago, i plan to make some myself.

So the Low 2-C gods would be Olorun, Chronos, Zeus, Odin, Ra, Amaterasu, Kukulkan and ?
 
Any god currently or in the future designated as the legitimate leader of one of the pantheons should be considered equal to Olorun as I currently understand it. If we find evidence of Matt's claims that gods are currently a lot weaker than they were earlier, then they can have a key of being superior but ultimately somewhat comparable to normal gods.
 
Mr. Bambu's second option seems to make sense to me. This appears to be a case similar to Marvel and DC Comics, with extreme inconsistencies in the power scaling for story purposes.
 
There are inconsistencies with this but it's more or less the best idea we have for now at least. Though to be honest, i don't remember if God Aldamore proposed something but if he did, maybe we could reconsider it.

Mmh looks like someone's commentary disappeared lol.
 
God Aldamore said:
I disagree but who cares right
Click to expand...
You're free to expand on this if you can give support to your views. I don't want to move ahead without hearing input, I just want the input to be valid. Perp's proposition might have scaled everyone to the highest two feats but at least it was supported.
 
As of now? It looks like we go with my original suggestion with a bit more understanding on powerscaling. Low 2-C for everybody was rejected and was the next best thing. I'd like to hear back from Perp though, if he's willing.
 
Sounds good. Though i have question about the 7-A thing, will it be 7-A laone or "At least 7-A, likely (much)higher" wich would explain how Merlin and Arthur are supposed to fight Jörmmungandr ? And what would be Jor's tier ?
 
If you have a reason for them to be listed as "likely much higher" then we can add it. For Arthur and Merlin they can certainly get it. Jor should be At least High 4-C, same as Thor, since they fight and Jorm is one of the divine children of Loki accredited with Ragnarok, which would destroy everything. Fenrir may even have a case for Possibly Low 2-C during the Ragnarok, since he became strong enough to break the chains he was unable to break before- and during this time IIRC he was supposed to just life-wipe Asgard, including Odin.
 
Don't know for Medusa and Chrion but yeah, Merlin and Arthur would get it. For the rest, like Fenrir getting Possibly Low 2-C (no need for another key i think, we should just put him to "At least High 4-C, possibly Low 2-C" during the Ragnarok).
 
Just red something about Jor. Apparently, Ragnarok has already happened, it's like a cycle of destruction and rebuilding a new world and each time, Jormmungandr is reincarnated to continue the cycle. It comes from the event "Legend of Camelot".
 
As someone who bas longed for a PROPER scale on smite, here is MY two cents.


The gods are all formed, apparently, from the thoughts and desires of mortals, trying to explain the world around themselves. Every cycle, gods show up, they leach off the worship of mortals, which enhances their longevity and to AN EXTENT, their power. When things get out of hand, Jormungandr rolls on in to clean the slate in a two gold fashion. Convince the mortals to abandon their gods, and then he KILLS them outright. Why the two fold method? Cause as we RECENTLY find out, death holds no true sway over gods for that long, UNLESS imprisoned, like what Hades and Persephone have done to Zeus, OR having the source of their constant immortality, mortal worship, cut off.

Hel stated that the gods are "not much better than humans" at this point, but this cant be a statement of power as the gods show power FAR beyond human levels, save the odd hero or demigod. Thus it's likely attributed to their immortality. However, lets talk about power. The earlier gods are formes from mankind. And all draw from their worship. As a collective, many of their stories, both true and some likely made up, are likely true to THEM and their worshipers. Meaning they all habe their powers and traights, but given that this all comes from the SAME PLACE, and that many are shown to kind of scale around each other to varying degrees, like Olorun being stated to having power similar Zeus or Odin, and later on getting BODIED by Cerberus in the recent chapter, and various other showings from many gods as being on a SOMEWHAT even playing field. Given all this, and that thw lorw and stories attributed to them, the gods ALL may sit at a universal to possibly higher level of power, with mftl+ feats and scaling, and same to all NON-GODS who can directly scale, like Jormungandr, Fenrir, and Cerberus.

Now why do I say they MAY be higher then universe level? Cause Excalibur. The blade was FORGED from the remaining essences of an unspecified number of gods from the last cycle, condenced together by Merlin, an old god himself, and brought into a new world where it was crystalized and made into a sword. This blade, containing the power of who knows how many likely universal beings, was used to GREATLY wound Jormungandr, after ragnarok was drained from him. And guess who else is attributed with being able to beat Jormungandr? Thor. Albeit that being suicide mission. But the point still stands that this current cycle of gods COULD be stronger than baseline universal+. To what degree though is hard to determine as we lack a lot of knowledge on the previous cycle.

One thing I wanna note also is speed. Many gods have been shown as making or existing before time itself. Given this supposed even playing field...many gods could likely be beyond mftl+, being infinite or immeasurable in terms of speed. Just something worth noting is all.

So I say THIS as a baseline for all gods:

1: Immortality that allows them to pretty much cheat death unless their soul is imprisoned or mortal worship is cut off. Death gods ESPECIALLY having an advantage here as shown by Anubis' immediate revival and Hades' imprisonment of Zeus.

2: Universe+ to likely higher/likely much higher (depends on your view of Excalibur), potentially making the gods low multiversal or flat out multiversal depending on how much you wanna wank them.

3: at LEAST mftl+ speeds to possibly infinite or immeasurable speeds. Again, depends on your views.


I hope I helped with this in some regards as I have been re-reading the **** out of the lore over and over for my OWN personal scaling when I saw how...lacking the scale is here.
 
please stop with the odd caps lock word it's actually ******* up my ability to read what you have typed except LEAST OWN etc etc

Okay, let's talk through this bit. First of all I'd like to ask if you can link to any relevant places where this lore is so I can double check. I'll only comment on what is obviously off.

I'm fully aware of the recent statements about Immortality, I actually already spoke to Weekly about this. For any powers and abilities, can we please get through the AP CRT first? Need to keep some semblance of organization.

We discussed Cerberus' feat bodying Olorun so I'm not sure that's the example you want to use there in the beginning? It isn't an accurate one either way. Meaning that your statement of all gods being equal has no basis you've given. So I gotta reject that outright.

Where does MFTL+/Infinite/Immeasurable even come from lol, I'm genuinely confused where that idea came from.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
please stop with the odd caps lock word it's actually ******* up my ability to read what you have typed except LEAST OWN etc etcOkay, let's talk through this bit. First of all I'd like to ask if you can link to any relevant places where this lore is so I can double check. I'll only comment on what is obviously off.
I'm fully aware of the recent statements about Immortality, I actually already spoke to Weekly about this. For any powers and abilities, can we please get through the AP CRT first? Need to keep some semblance of organization.

We discussed Cerberus' feat bodying Olorun so I'm not sure that's the example you want to use there in the beginning? It isn't an accurate one either way. Meaning that your statement of all gods being equal has no basis you've given. So I gotta reject that outright.

Where does MFTL+/Infinite/Immeasurable even come from lol, I'm genuinely confused where that idea came from.
Click to expand...
Let me tackle the speed thing first. Olorun was stated to have flown from distant stars to earth, far beyond the ones even Nu Wa stays among. And he did so in a relatively short time. Odin also fought Ymir, who's original body was used to make up the earth. Ratatoskr has been stated to repeatedly rup up and down Yggdrasil, which has been stated to be galaxy spanning. Those are mftl speed examples. For infinite/immeasurable speed examples, Chronos is literally time itself. Kali is time itself. But keep in mind, Kali is also part of Durga, and time didn't exist until Durga poofed her into existence. Thus an example of a god existing before time. In fact that goes for a lot of that pantheon. Other universe makers like Olorun, Neith, etc. have also likely, in their myths, existed before time. Existing beyond time and being time itself is often attributed to having such speeds and as seen, guys like Mercury clearly out pace Neith. Who existed in what was basically a void of nothing before she made the universe in her mythology. Loki in turn tagged him, and the scaling goes from there and likely with all gods, with some naturally being faster to some degree compares to others.

And yes, many of these gods would likely scale. True, Olorun would have won if he hadn't expended the energy he did getting to that point. But Cerberus had him literally screaming in pain. And would have killed him had Yemoja not intervened when she did. And keep in mind, characters like Athena have been shown being on equal terms with the likes of Neith. And I sayd it was a more even olaying field, and I'm pretty sure I said there was SOME differences in their levels of power. Think of it like the dbs pages, many charachters being universe+ but some naturally out classing others. Two characters can occupy the same tier but one being stronger to some degree. For an example: Hercules and Mercury would likely be in the same tier for power and speed, but Mercury would naturally be faster and Hercules would be stronger. My point was not to say all gods are 100% equal, it was to say that, from the ones that are shown to scale from each other, to the fact their sprung from the same place and use the same fuel for their immortality and to an extent their power, that it's reasonable to assume that many will fall into the same tier.

As for any links, I can't link ALL of the lore pages from the website directly, cause the ones linked to the Odyssey change every year. But the official wiki does archive all the story lore. I can give you the current timeline and you can cross check with the main website, the wiki when the story bit in question isn't up, cause of Odyssey changes, and the comic.

The timeline is this:

Smite: The Pantheon War (comic)
Smite: The Fall of War (Odyssey so use wiki. Though they made youtube versions of this one)
Smite: Ragnarok (short clip showing the ritual of Hades fusing with a portion of ragnarom)
Smite: Divine Uprising
Smite: Hera's Odyssey (its in the title so use the wiki)
Smite: The Legend of Camelot
Smite: Council of the Gods
Smite: Battle for Olympus
Smite: Odyssey: Underworld (same as above.)

I hope this cleared up things a little bit.
 
Regarding speed: MFTL+ is fine, though it's amorphous at best. But "being time" isn't indicative of infinite speed. The requirements would be moving in a scenario where there is no time, or moving an infinite distance in any amount of time. Kali and Chronos contradicting each other also makes me really want to not use them as "yeah lol time didn't even exist" so much as their civilizations didn't have measured time before them. I still have no idea where you got Immeasurable from.

I... what? Strawman, I think is the term for this? I didn't mention Olorun expending his energy. I mentioned that Cerberus is mentioned defeating Olorun via poison, not actual AP. So you didn't actually counter what I said. Athena (a High 4-C) being equal to Neith (a High 4-C) is fine. I'm aware of how scaling works, I do quite a lot of it on this wiki, but you haven't actually supported everyone being Low 2-C, as you base this off of an explicitly hax-based example. Even then, we would take the most consistent storyline, see the arguments against Perp's idea (which was the same as yours, scale everyone to Low 2-C to ignore lower feats).

you say you can't link the lore then mention the exact places where the lore is linked, what

As for the actual bits you mention, as said above we considered just having the comics be their own thing, since they are wildly inconsistent compared to the games. Furthermore, I was mostly asking which actual statements you were using as evidence and which parts of the lore I could find said statements in, since if you can't substantiate the claim then you may as well have said nothing. If you could give me this information I'd be much obliged, thank you.
 
Ok first off, there are TWO comics. One of them is the basis for the story they have continued. That being the ine where Loki murders Zeus. The other comic....yeah they abandoned that one. Which is why I labled the specific one. Also I apologize for not link hunting. It was late and I just wanted to get to bed but wanted to give some kind of reply

Back to speed, remember this is a game world made by a modern civilization. Look at Sol, much of what she is in game is based more on our modern understanding of a sun than an ancient one. So I find that argument a bit meh. Also how do Kali and Chronos contradict? Remmeber, they came from mortal minds. To the mortals and them, all their stories are the basis of who they are. It doesn't matter if the civilizations contradict each other, because the gods came from what the mortals believe is the truth. ....again with some modernisms. Like Sol. Or Medusa and Arachne being more like your modern monster girl. Smite has taken some liberties for the sake of story and game design.

Not beating him with AP? He had physicaly forced Olorun towards the styx, and he was seconds from biting his godly face off had Yemoja not saved him. Yes, he did use poison and his noxious breath. But all that really did in story was choke, blind, and burn him. It didn't magically decrease his defences. And he was still clearly able to fight to an extent, before having been pinned down for the final time. Cerberus displayed physical power enough to force Olorun back, to the ground, and if he was supposedly not able to harm him as YOU suggest...why would Olorun have bothered stopping one of his bites with his bare hands? And you want a scaling? Neith made the universe. Athena, Mercury, and Loki proved to be on a similar power level. Athena was evenly matched eith her brother, and showed to he on similar levels to Thor and Sun Wukong. Hel also scales having fought Wukong. Ao Kuang was also in the groupnthat killed Zeus with Loki and Hel, thus likely being on their level to. Ao Kuang had also faced Ne Zha. Anhur faced fought a long battle with Ares, and though he lost Ares claimed he was a strong one. Ganesha's presence kept Ares, despite all his power, from being able to open the gates to his temple. I can go on about this. But with so many gods shown in story and lore as being on some kind of comparable level, there are many others that also likely scale. Now true, some nongods are harder to scale like Medusa or Arachne.

Now as for links...I'll post those in a second post so my page doesn't restart on me as i go from link to link and loose everything I just typed. Also I'm NOT inking every friggin god bio page. Just the main story.
 
I have to unsubscribe to this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message later if you need my help.
 
Alright Ant, fair enough.

@Gaara I'm aware, but I'm saying it was established earlier in the thread that we were disregarding the comics for being inconsistent with the game's lore. They were made by other companies, I know one was by Dark Horse? So we're just considering that other versions of the same characters. Think of it like the MCU and Marvel Comics.

What? How does it being made by modern day programmers matter? Why would the feat be different if the mesopotamians developed the game? MFTL+ is fine but doesn't have any specific boundaries to it, so we can't really give a value other than generally "this is probaby MFTL+". The two time gods contradict because two separate people cannot have both made the same exact thing as a universal object- so it makes more sense that creating time is more of "introducing the concept of time to their civilization". I have no idea why you're bringing up modernism in a discussion of MFTL+ legitimacy though, care to elaborate or explain why this is relevant?

...he also physically afflicted him with poison, first. Literally dura neg. You can't say that's all it did unless the story says "all the poison did was these things". All we know is that he poisoned him. Which is dura neg. So cerberus scaling to olorun is 100% bunk. As for the rest of the stuff. Neith did not make the universe. The universe existed and had water within it before Neith came into being, she just brought other shit into that. That's not a Low 2-C feat, sorry. Athena, Mercury, and Loki also do not have Low 2-C feats, so all of them scaling is fine since they'd all be High 4-C under my system. Like... you're trying to these rebuttals to disprove my system when under my system, your scaling works 100% of the time, they just aren't Low 2-C at all. All of the gods you're mentioning are High 4-C, dunno what to tell you.

You're misunderstanding. I am asking for bits of information that are relevant. If you cannot provide a competent argument here then stop posting walls of texts.

Read this part, as this is the most important piece of my wall of text. I need, from you, feats that prove gods that are not the leaders of their pantheons (e.g., Artemis, Baron Samedi, Yemoja, Tyr, and so on) scale to the gods that are the leaders of their pantheons (e.g., Zeus, Odin, Olorun, Kukulkan, and so on). I need a link to the bit of the story that proves this, not the entire lore. I would need a reasonable explanation of these feats and why they would make sense other than just saying "yeahh well this god scales to this god and this god scales to this god and this god scales to this god". I need substance or I will close the thread and use the system we agreed to up above. Okay? Thank you for your contributions, but they need to be meaningful or this is a waste of time.
 
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