Slight Chrono Trigger cast upgrades

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Nothing too major, everyone's still going to remain 5-A. However, there is a better 5-A feat than the one listed on Queen Zeal's profile. This video says it all. This narrator in the video is ProtoDude/ClassicGameGuys, who is pretty much responsible for most of the Chrono Verse pages, so he does have a fairly good reputation here.

Although, it should be preferably to have a blog about this instead of a video; This video should help with the calc. I have requested it in the Calculations Request Thread, but got no input so far. Maybe the results will be higher or lower, but it should likely yield a good upgrade either way.

This wouldn't scale to the Chrono Trigger cast, it came from Chrono Cross where the characters should be much stronger? Not quite, JRPG characters don't necessarily have static stats throughout the whole game; RPG characters grow stronger in incremise and don't scale to the end game bosses till end game technically. Before that, they're just Unknow but can theoretically scale to their own, or feats perform by weaker enemies until then. In this case, even fodder enemies in the game can perform such a feat, as are the early game Protagonists. Serge isn't technically 2-A to High 2-A until end game and any 5-A feats he has early can still scale to weaker bosses who also appeared in Chrono Trigger. This would in turn scale to Magus's generals, who are obviously inferior to Magus who is of course comparable to Crono, Lavos, and Queen Zeal.

Any thoughts?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I was gonna say yes, but I'm unsure, if CGG said it wouldn't scale to the CT cast.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Classic Game Guys never said that, the italics font was just to correct confusions made by those who might argue otherwise. CGC said the opposite, if you go back 10 seconds prior, he actually said it does scale to Crono. Although, he didn't quite elaborate why in the video itself, which is why I explained.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Oh, then I agree.

 

[Aeyu]

I agree as well. Seems fine to me.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Bump, there's two agreements, but I still feel we should preferably create a blog with meteor shower being calc'd.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

What tier was Crono at the beginning of the game?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We don't really give tiers to many early game JRPG protagonists, so Unknown technically. But definitely no lower than Wall level should be an obvious answer.

On topic, could this be applied, or do we still need more input?

 

[Schnee_One]

If even fodder tier characters are capable of doing a feat better then the second strongest 5A, it seems a bit outlierish no?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's not really an outlier if it's consistent. And it's not fodder characters exclusively; but also early, mid, and late games all scale to it.

It's not just low level enemies who can use the spell, but mid to high level bosses also use it, Magus's generals use it, and the Party members in turn use the spell against them without one-shotting them sometimes. However you look at it, it is consistent and the highlight is that Magus's generals scale.

No one's suggesting we create profiles for fodder characters or that they scale for obvious reasons. But Magus's generals are non-fodder characters who can use the Meteor Shower spell and tank the spell in turn.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

I agree to this.

Also, shouldn't this scale to even base Lavos given he's >>>>>>>> pretty much everyone else.

 

[Kaltias]

Unsure.

If literally everyone can perform this feat it does seem a bit of an outlier when it's above Zeal's

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not really an outlier if it's consistent. And no, it's not going to scale to fodder characters, they don't even get profiles. But it Does scale to the Mid-Game Chrono Cross party members, and Magus's generals, who in turn scale to Magus (obviously) Queen Zeal, the Chrono Trigger cast, and base Lavos. That's like saying Queen Zeal's feat is an outlier just because it's above Base Lavos's feats.

Queen Zeal and Base Lavos's feats are both extremely casual, this one is just consistent, strait forward, and overall legit. Also, can't argue with ProtoDude about Chrono Trigger now can we?

 

[Kaltias]

? If fodder characters can do it, it would scale to them. I'm not talking about a "Who has pages here" perspective, more a in verse perspective. It's like saying that we can accept Roshi's moon bust but not scale it to him.

Also no. Zeal's feat is above Lavos', who is the only one with a quantifiable feat (And even then Lavos performs the feat by waking up) out of the people who scale. It isn't comparable to "Feat performed by nameless fodder that scales to everyone"

Although admittedly, if everyone can replicate it, it could be a Disgaea kind of situation

 

[Holyhotsauce]

? If fodder characters can do it, it would scale to them. I'm not talking about a "Who has pages here" perspective, more a in verse perspective. It's like saying that we can accept Roshi's moon bust but not scale it to him.
Also no. Zeal's feat is above Lavos', who is the only one with a quantifiable feat (And even then Lavos performs the feat by waking up) out of the people who scale. It isn't comparable to "Feat performed by nameless fodder that scales to everyone"

Although admittedly, if everyone can replicate it, it could be a DIsgaea kind of situation

"DIsgaea"?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well it's still consistent. And the feat being performed by "nameless fodder" isn't even the highlight. The highlight is that Mid game Protagonists perform it and scale to it before facing Magus generals.

It's a similar case with FF7 actually, there is a High 5-A feat performed by a weaker summon than Bahamut Fury who's best feat is 5-A; but both scale to the former high end.

 

[Kaltias]

"DIsgaea"?

>Actually focusing on a typo more than the actual argument.

But it basically meant that probably it isn't an outlier if it can be performed by the high tiers as well

 

[Holyhotsauce]

"DIsgaea"?

>Actually focusing on a typo more than the actual argument.
But it basically meant that probably it isn't an outlier if it can be performed by the high tiers as well

I didn't know it was a typo. I thought you were referring to another verse or something.

 

[Kaltias]

Oh.

It's a part of the Nippon Ichi verse

 

[Kaltias]

Although i'm not really understanding how he calced it? He just kinda said "That's the yield"

 

[Holyhotsauce]

Although i'm not really understanding how he calced it? He just kinda said "That's the yield"

Source Here

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That was another thing I mentioned in the OP; we should preferably create a blog for it. I also linked another video that should help in the 2nd paragraph.

Edit: I was about to mention that it should be an old calc on NarutoForums somewhere out there.

 

[Kaltias]

I'm not sure.

I mean the meteor is nowhere near as big when it actually lands.

And there is a screen cut, so it could be perspective stuff

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The castle Mario lifted and casually punted looks much smaller than an actual castle, but we consider that a legit Class G feat due to game mechanics having objects that look much smaller on the outside than in, or Dragon Quest having Towns barely 2 times bigger than the people. One of the Asteroids actually lands before the time cut; time cut actually reminds a little bit.

I should also mention that I was in a conversation with ProtoDude on Google+ a while back; he did mention that Magus did have a 4-B feat in Radical Dreamers, and Magus Generals did have a 3-B feat, but is naturally iffy on those regards. He's actually pretty confident about this calc though.

And to be fair a lot of Retro Video game characters have surprisingly impressive feats/calcs; we got 5-B Toejam & Earl, 5-A Contra, Planet level Ninja Baseball Batman, 5-A Shinobi, Tier 4 Actraiser, 4-A Illusion of Gaia, and the list goes on.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

Bump.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

Bump For The Bump God.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Just fell bad that there won't be a High 5-A upgrade. I really wanted to make a Crono vs Link thread.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

Bump For The Bump Throne.