Simplifying Intelligence Ratings

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

@The_Impress

Would you be willing to write new draft texts according to what I accepted above please?

 

[Overlord775]

We mention the sentence "cosmic scale" already, as far as I know, yes, so that is pretty self-evident already, or so I think.

Not a staff, but this is a really horrible standard to use because it's mostly just range and doesn't actually care of what the techngy does. A machine that changes the colours of the entire universe would give you the rating by that definition and that's just wrong.

IMO, it should be creating something that can change/rewrite/messes with the laws/concepts of reality or making something that exists outside the bounds of them

 

[The_Impress]

That is the usual real world definition to include reasonably skilled scientists and computer programmers, accomplished doctors, and the like. But again, we can remove the "creative field" mention if you think that it is easy to misunderstand as simply being very good at drawing.

Then they have a mastery of the field, by your given definition, thus it returns to my definition.

Being a real world polymath is enough to qualify for a regular Genius rating, but it obviously requires raw calculation, processing, analysis, or invention skills considerably beyond the upper limits of the human brain to qualify for Extraordinary Genius.

But again, if they're polymath + essentially, superhumanly intelligent, that's redundant since you can be extraordinarily intelligent just by being the latter.

We mention the sentence "cosmic scale" already, as far as I know, yes, so that is pretty self-evident already, or so I think.

Not exactly, a "cosmic-scale" is kind of a buzzword not harboring meaning alone.

Okay, the "even with just household items" phrase should probably be removed, yes.

That is redundant and should also be removed. Agreed.

Ok.

 

[Confluctor]

For the record, cosmic scale can start from tier 4 and go all the way to tier 0 for a lot of verses. So you know, better avoid it.

 

[Antvasima]

Not a staff, but this is a really horrible standard to use because it's mostly just range and doesn't actually care of what the techngy does. A machine that changes the colours of the entire universe would give you the rating by that definition and that's just wrong.

IMO, it should be creating something that can change/rewrite/messes with the laws/concepts of reality or making something that exists outside the bounds of them

I agree, but as I have stated already, the crucial aspect here is the combination of being able to warp reality in an extremely varied manner via inventions alone, and to reach at least cosmic scale with them, that is the crucial issue here.

 

[Antvasima]

Then they have a mastery of the field, by your given definition, thus it returns to my definition.

Well, I prefer if we just adjust my old wording instead, as "complete mastery" seems way too strict and easy to misinterpret, and "making breakthroughs within their fields of expertise" seems a bit too strict as well. Gifted intelligence can be reached via simply having quite uncommonly high-level analytical ability, for example.

But again, if they're polymath + essentially, superhumanly intelligent, that's redundant since you can be extraordinarily intelligent just by being the latter.

I am not sure what you mean here. Please elaborate.

Not exactly, a "cosmic-scale" is kind of a buzzword not harboring meaning alone.

I thought that it was a synonym for "universal scale", but we can use that term instead if you wish.

Ok.

Can you or somebody else here write a list of all the changes that I accepted in all my posts in this thread please? It would greatly simplify making appropriate adjustments to our Intelligence explanation page.

 

[Overlord775]

I agree, but as I have stated already, the crucial aspect here is the combination of being able to warp reality in an extremely varied manner via inventions alone, and to reach at least cosmic scale with them, that is the crucial issue here.

more =/= better, there's such a thing as quality over quantity

also again, "Cosmic" scale mostly just means range for this kind of stuff. Erasing the concept of something across a universe isn't really that much more impressive than do it across a city

 

[The_Impress]

Well, I prefer if we just adjust my old wording instead, as "complete mastery" seems way too strict and easy to misinterpret, and "making breakthroughs within their fields of expertise" seems a bit too strict as well. Gifted intelligence can be reached via simply having quite uncommonly high-level analytical ability, for example.

Then we can have it be a "notable mastery", and remove the line for breakthroughs. Then that should be good.

I am not sure what you mean here. Please elaborate.

It's just a redundant line, is all. Gives the allusion that being a polymath is EG when it's not.

I thought that it was a synonym for "universal scale", but we can use that term instead if you wish.

Universal scale's more preferable, Cosmic can be used to hint tier 4 stuff too since prominent celestial bodies can be conflated to that.

Can you or somebody else here write a list of all the changes that I accepted in all my posts in this thread please? It would greatly simplify making appropriate adjustments to our Intelligence explanation page.

I will after these topics resolve, yeah, and then repost the modified wording.

 

[Antvasima]

more =/= better, there's such a thing as quality over quantity

Again, the key issue is being able to apply very varied and extreme reality-warping effects on a massive scale. Quality + quantity in combination essentially, to ensure that it isn't just a specialisation or somebody with comparatively limited capabilities.

also again, "Cosmic" scale mostly just means range for this kind of stuff. Erasing the concept of something across a universe isn't really that much more impressive than do it across a city

Extremely strongly disagreed. Also, this is a wiki policy revision thread, so I am afraid that it isn't up to you to decide. My apologies.

 

[Antvasima]

Then we can have it be a "notable mastery", and remove the line for breakthroughs. Then that should be good.

That is probably fine, yes. Although, creating very futuristic technology is a too strict requirement as well.

Perhaps something like this then?

Gifted: Characters that demonstrate high reasoning ability, can master difficult concepts with few repetitions, and display high performance capability or notable mastery in intellectual or specific academic fields, which makes them equivalent to real-world experts in these areas.

It's just a redundant line, is all. Gives the allusion that being a polymath is EG when it's not.

A polymath is automatically a genius, but not necessarily an extraordinary genius, yes. Also, a character can technically be a superhumanly intelligent Extraordinary Genius without having the versatility in different areas that is characteristic for polymaths as well.

Universal scale's more preferable, Cosmic can be used to hint tier 4 stuff too since prominent celestial bodies can be conflated to that.

Okay. We can change that then.

I will after these topics resolve, yeah, and then repost the modified wording.

Okay. Thank you for helping out. You should post modifications to our current description texts according to what has been accepted here though, not the ones that you wrote in your first post.

 

[Antvasima]

@The_Impress @DarkDragonMedeus

I would appreciate your further help here.

 

[The_Impress]

That is probably fine, yes. Although, creating very futuristic technology is a too strict requirement as well.

Perhaps something like this then?

Gifted: Characters that demonstrate high reasoning ability, can master difficult concepts with few repetitions, and display high performance capability or notable mastery in intellectual or specific academic fields, which makes them equivalent to real-world experts in these areas.

A polymath is automatically a genius, but not necessarily an extraordinary genius, yes. Also, a character can technically be a superhumanly intelligent Extraordinary Genius without having the versatility in different areas that is characteristic for polymaths as well.

Okay. We can change that then.

Okay. Thank you for helping out. You should post modifications to our current description texts according to what has been accepted here though, not the ones that you wrote in your first post.

Kk.

I’ll modify and help out in a while, abit overburdened with workload recently, probably will have it done by the weekend though

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem. Thank you for helping out.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Gifted: Characters that demonstrate high reasoning ability, can master difficult concepts with few repetitions, and display high performance capability or notable mastery in intellectual or specific academic fields, which makes them equivalent to real-world experts in these areas.

I think this description is good, though some would also consider having an experts level intellect from a surprisingly young age to also be an alternate way to receive a gifted rating.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluation. Is it fine to apply that then?

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

I would still appreciate some help here.

 

[The_Impress]

Gifted: Characters that demonstrate high reasoning ability, can master difficult concepts with few repetitions, and display high performance capability or notable mastery in intellectual or specific academic fields, which makes them equivalent to real-world experts in these areas.

Genius: Individuals with an exceptional capacity for knowledge and intelligence, generally in one area of varying depth. This level of intelligence is the level of real-world geniuses and famous intellectuals in and, in the absence of better feats, should be the default intelligence category for fictional characters with superhuman intelligence.

Extraordinary Genius: Individuals whose knowledge spreads over many fields of science and who surpass the intellects of real-world geniuses and intellectuals. At this level, many are capable of creating futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, and potentially even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations, or outperforming supercomputers. Essentially, this level of intelligence should be unreachable for real-world humans.

Supergenius: The highest level of non-omniscient intellect, possessed by those individuals with unfathomably superhuman intelligence and are capable of creating impossibly advanced physics-defying and reality-warping fantasy technology

Take note that for a Supergenius rating to be given based on technological prowess, the character in question should be able to substantially warp reality as they wish on an at least universal (3-A) scale with their inventions.

This work?

 

[Antvasima]

Gifted: Characters who demonstrate high reasoning ability, can master difficult concepts with few repetitions, and display high performance capability or notable mastery in intellectual or specific academic fields, which makes them equivalent to real-world experts in these areas.

Genius: Individuals with an exceptional capacity for knowledge and intelligence, usually in one area of varying depth. This level of intellect is the level of real-world geniuses, polymaths, and genuinely extremely prominent intellectuals, and, in the absence of better feats, should be the default intelligence category for fictional characters with exceptional or superhuman intelligence.

Extraordinary Genius: Individuals whose knowledge spreads over multiple fields of science and who vastly surpass the real world's upper human limits. At this level, many are capable of creating extremely advanced futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, outperforming supercomputers, and even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations.

Supergenius: The highest level of non-omniscient intellect, possessed by individuals with unfathomably superhuman intelligence who are capable of creating impossibly advanced physics-defying and reality-warping fantasy technology for extremely diverse purposes.

Take note that for a Supergenius rating to be given based on technological prowess, the character in question should be able to essentially warp reality as they wish on an at least universal (3-A) scale with their inventions, or even use them to overpower tier 1 entities for higher cases.

Thank you for helping out. I wrote a first draft for a modified version above, and will inspect our current Intelligence page to see if further modifications are necessary.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That works for me.

 

[Antvasima]

I have now tried to improve a bit further on my draft.

 

[Antvasima]

What do the rest of you think about my current draft?

 

[The_Impress]

Yeah it's fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I will apply it then.

 

[Antvasima]

I have applied it:

Intelligence

Intelligence is a word that is incredibly difficult to define, as it has been used to refer to many things, such as one's ability to process information, or their capacity for logic, self-awareness, creativity, reasoning, and/or problem solving, or their knowledge and memory. In its fullest...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Should I reinsert the following sentence at the end of the Supergenius section, in order to avoid potential misunderstandings?

"Simply defying the laws of physics with futuristic technology is very common for Extraordinary Geniuses as well."

 

[The_Impress]

I think the "substantially warping" bit covers it, no?

 

[Antvasima]

I dunno. I think that I added it earlier due to repeated misunderstandings.

 

[Omnificence]

I previously had the idea of adding synonyms to the current levels of intelligence we have on this wiki. Here's just a little incomplete blog of what I had in mind.

 

[Antvasima]

I have applied it:

Intelligence

Intelligence is a word that is incredibly difficult to define, as it has been used to refer to many things, such as one's ability to process information, or their capacity for logic, self-awareness, creativity, reasoning, and/or problem solving, or their knowledge and memory. In its fullest...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Should I reinsert the following sentence at the end of the Supergenius section, in order to avoid potential misunderstandings?

"Simply defying the laws of physics with futuristic technology is very common for Extraordinary Geniuses as well."

I reinserted the sentence for safety reasons.

 

[Antvasima]

So is it fine if we close this thread?

 

[Omnificence]

So is it fine if we close this thread?

Should we give specific guidelines for what's required to reach certain levels of intelligence first?

 

[The_Impress]

So is it fine if we close this thread?

Yep, all good

 

[Antvasima]

Should we give specific guidelines for what's required to reach certain levels of intelligence first?

We already have them: Intelligence

Yep, all good

Okay. I will do so.

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.