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Simon The Digger VS Sonic The Hedgehog

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Unite My Rice said:
Considering they were using said hax + more when Anti-Spiral had the probability of them winning at 0, I'd say it's capable of negating hax.
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Do you have proof of this then? If you have no proof he can stop time hax he doesn't win, simple as that.
 
I think you're highly overestimating Sonic. Even the Ashtangas, the fodder summons of Anti-Spiral could travel around the time axis, and they were able to aim literally anywhere and not miss.

I'm pretty sure being able to use and negate hax in a place where the probability of anything succeeding being 0 > the ability to affect the probability of an ability activating.
 
Unite My Rice said:
I think you're highly overestimating Sonic. Even the Ashtangas, the fodder summons of Anti-Spiral could travel around the time axis, and they were able to aim literally anywhere and not miss.
I'm pretty sure being able to use and negate hax in a place where the probability of anything succeeding being 0 > the ability to affect the probability of an ability activating.
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That's not negating time stop.
 
So you can show a feat of the Anti-Spiral controlling Time Stop then? Good. Show it. As a matter of fact, show them even talking about it as an ability. Do a Medaka's Box here.
 
He wouldn't be contering the ability itself, he would be lowering the probability of the ability even working on the first place, Probability Manipulation can do that, there's no reason for it not to work on Sonic's Time Stop, since Time Stop still follows probability like everything else, unless Sonic has resistance.
 
OK let me stop this right now. Understand what you're saying.

You're saying that this character is showing a power he has never shown in series. You're taking an ability and giving it more effectiveness than was actually shown. What stops Probability Manipulation from being used to completely stops other fictional characters abilities who are superior to Simon's own? You're giving him a power that is superior to the power he has shown.

There was never any instance where these characters were affected by Time Stop, there was never any instance when Time Manipulation was used on the characters. Yes the Anti-Spiral could go back in time. But that was all. That's like saying the Flash has Time Stop because he can run back and forth through time at his leisure. You can't just give him powers as you see fit.

That's not what a debate is. Be reasonable here.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
He wouldn't be contering the ability itself, he would be lowering the probability of the ability even working on the first place, Probability Manipulation can do that, there's no reason for it not to work on Sonic's Time Stop, since Time Stop still follows probability like everything else, unless Sonic has resistance.
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That would be Power Negation, he's not negating the powers of that scale especially considering the character is on the same level as he is. Sonic is a reality warper, what stops him from BFRing Simon as he HAS SHOWN with Chaos Control. Sonic is also invulnerable, and has beaten stronger foes than the Anti-Spiral. What stops him from blitzing Simon and killing him?

You can't give characters abilities they don't have. See if I wanted to do what you guys are doing, I'd state that "Thoughts Into Power, Sonic gains the ability to negate Probability Manipulation, because the Chaos Emeralds are known for giving conceptual powers to Super Forms".

I'm trying to be a reasonable guy and only use feats that were shown. But don't nickle and dime me please.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
KurotheStrong said:
So what you're saying is Simon has the ability to negate any power that could kill him? That's interesting. You should make him fight foes over his weight class then, he's literally one of the most OP characters to grace this place from whatever you're implying.
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This ability is not that rare, actually.
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I don't care how rare the ability is. You're giving certain abilities to characters that have never shown them before. It's so biased it's not even a joking manner. Sonic has Probability Manipulation because the Chaos Emeralds make Miracles happen then. *Shrugs*
 
KurotheStrong said:
I don't care how rare the ability is. You're giving certain abilities to characters that have never shown them before. It's so biased it's not even a joking manner. Sonic has Probability Manipulation because the Chaos Emeralds make Miracles happen then. *Shrugs*
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Well, in this case, good luck with the content revision thread you'll have to make to remove Probability Manipulation from Simon's profile.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
KurotheStrong said:
I don't care how rare the ability is. You're giving certain abilities to characters that have never shown them before. It's so biased it's not even a joking manner. Sonic has Probability Manipulation because the Chaos Emeralds make Miracles happen then. *Shrugs*
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Well, in this case, good luck with the content revision thread you'll have to make to remove Probability Manipulation from Simon's profile.
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It's difficult not to be disgusted by this. I don't care if he has the ability to use Probability Manipulation. It's how you guys are using it. It would mean anyone on par with this tier for Simon would lose because he has this power. Even though it's not an absolute ability. He wouldn't just completely stop characters from using abilities.
 
It's not absolute, it's just that Sonic seems to have no defence against it. For example: Simon lost to God-Man, because God-Man could overpower his Probability Manipulation by changing math, I don't think Sonic can't do anything like that, and Sonic still has to follow probability like any other character.
 
OK. By the factors that the Chaos Emeralds cause miracles to happen, he also has Probability Manipulation. So it's even. Who wins now? It would mean their Probability Manipulation would negate itself, similarly to how the fight with the Anti-Spiral went. This means Simon would be affected by Time Stop. Who wins.
 
That's why I'm telling you to make a content revision thread, so Probability Manipulation would be added on Sonic's profile and we could move on with the debate.
 
Yeah, or else people would start saying that "X character is much more powerful than the page says he is and has X abilities that aren't on his page, so he wins"
 
Those votes (all of them) are nulled, unless there is a bias for Simon if Simon's only chance of winning won't work on Sonic.
 
KurotheStrong said:
Those votes (all of them) are nulled, unless there is a bias for Simon if Simon's only chance of winning won't work on Sonic.
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You do know that Simo has plenty of hax in his disposal right?
 
I'm trying not to be a sarcastic butt here. You don't seem to understand that the Chaos Emeralds, create miracles (probability), allow for control over time and space, allow for power giving (the ability to move as a concept of time), gives Sonic invincibility to anything on par or weaker than himself, reality-warp, bring back the dead, also allow for time travel, and more.

Please stop making Simon look like he's that much more superior to Super Sonic, when he's only faced a character who created one universe and tried to destroy one, when Sonic has defeated a character who could destroy more than 10.
 
simon FRA...no seriously like he has more hax than sonic and @kuro want to add miracles/probability go make a CRT...i mean not EVERYONE knows this if you can get it on alright the fight result MAY change...don't go saying "it's clear as day" That's not always the case so go make CRT its not to ask if that would be a valid power or not
 
How does Simon hurt a character who can take attacks from a being who can destroy more universes... You guys... Wow the bias. Cool. It doesn't matter if you have "more hax" either. What matters is how powerful the hax is.

Sonic can Time Stop Simon, and no one has shown anything showcasing resistance to Time Hax.

I showed the feats for the Probability Manipulation, it's even explained by Silver, Eggman and Shadow that it performs Miracles, Miracles are an effect of Probability.
 
But it doesn't matter about the CRT. Debating is about bringing evidence. The pages have not been updated yet. Did you know that Super Forms are capable of MFTL+ movement? Not updated yet? You can't say that not having a CRT is grounds to it not being accepted. The feats and the explanation is there. You do not need a CRT, not even Narutoforums uses CRT so long as you can show feats they haven't seen, they barely even update their profiles, so long as people explain it, that's enough evidences.

I'm also not doing a CRT after last time, it's not worth it if I can just show the feats of why. Sonic has Superior AP, has a Superior Time Hax of being able to Manipulate Time and Space, can BFR Simon, can counter Simon's Time, Probability, and Matter Manipulation because he is stronger. What praytell does Simon have that's superior to Super Sonic's maximum potential seen?

Also, I see that people are fusing Canon with Non-Canon. Unless it was stated, isn't Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Laggan movie only? He didn't take blows from the Anti-Spiral, the Mech did. Was this Simon Anime or Movie Canon? If so, I can use Sonic's feats from Archie Sonic as well as it is not specified.
 
>And ppl are totally going to believe so easily when its not on page when pages are there to notify how the characters works

>NF use calcs to evaluate feats....

You say things that ARE NOT in the pages like... All abilities of base form are greatly enhanced, Time Manipulation, Flight, Energy Projection, Can manipulate Chaos Energy and pass his chaos energy onto others, allowing them to achieve Super States of their own, Light Manipulation, Can survive without oxygen and in space (that is super sonics abilities) Ppl will look at that over than just saying oh he has this but it ain't on page. Otherwise I can just claim it has limitless power and tier upgraded BOOM but no CRT and I HAVE to expect ppl to believe me so easily???? That ain't how it works
 
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