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Silver the Hedgehog vs Alice Margatroid

You're assuming that Alice own at least a 1000 of them though, each and every one of them she could control to fire simple bullet. That's NLF there.
 
She is gonna get tired, Silver has limitless stamina.

Silver is a ranged fighter, has the advantage in range, and his shield directly blocks anything coming at him, it's not like he has to repel everything one by one. If the danmaku somehow reaches him, he just teleports away.
 
Having no spellcard rules is pretty much NLF.

From what I know, the spellcard rules make sure that the attacks (non-spells, and spellcards) are fair, and that they have a time limit.

In addition it makes sure that they are non-lethal danmaku.

I have heard varying sources on who made it/why it was made so I am not going to put that in.

Without spellcard rules, it just makes Alice "unfair." and with no time limit, she could just be sending out dolls to give her covering fire (maybe create a ring of danmaku (now lethal because no spellcard rules)) so she can just manufacture more dolls with magic.

I think we should just put spellcard rules on Alice, because without them it turns into a no limits fallacy issue way too quickly.


Also suprised no one has talked about the rings he needs to sustain that form.
 
I'm having issue about the Doll Sign: 1000 Army Formation, not about spellcard rule in general. Not talking about spellcard rule, even in canon we didn't see she own that much doll on her hand.
 
Im just saying that we have really only seen her under the spellcard rule, so its difficult to say what she can achieve when the rule is taken down.

Haha had cute thought of shanghai running around trying to grab rings before silver can get to them.
 
It's easy to assume that all the current spell card would have their "murderswitch" turn on though. Limited to spell card is fine, since that what we have going for, but restricting her to spell card rule, of all thing, when she's force to fire non-lethal and dodgeable harmless spellcard is unfair for her, and any 2hu in general. That's like asking Link to used a cardboard sword instead of his Master Blade for combat.
 
Ok I see your point. So its like a best of both worlds.

Well time to watch some more 06 gameplay to get a feel for what super silver can do.
 
Drjeanstory said:
Well time to watch some more 06 gameplay to get a feel for what super silver can do.
Click to expand...
Why must you tortured yourself for?

Aside from that, the more ideal version I have is that the spell card could be adding an extra doll or 2.
 
I mean, honestly, Silver, and telekinesis in general, acts as a fantastic counter to Danmaku. That's Silver's primary use of his telekinesis, to pick up things and hurl them at folk. If she's just hurling stuff at Silver, then he'll just hurl it back at her with even more force. The whole thing about how many she can toss out is rendered moot just by the fact that Silver's power is a perfect counter to this, the fact that speed is equalized, and the fact that he can plunk many of them out of the air, and hurl them before they get too close. His telekinetic range is farily bad, yes, but as super silver it's pretty good given that he's fighting in space. And against Iblis at the end of his story, it was also fairy decent. He's even capable of catching sonic mid homing attack, so I mean, hurling stuff at him is overall just not all that effective.

I'm fairly certain that needing the rings is just a game mechanic, as that would likely not be applied to a real fight. And in the cutscene, he didn't need them to maintain his form. Only the chaos emeralds were needed to unlock the form. Once the battle was done, he was able to go back into base form on his own.

All this being said, he still can't get past low godly regen. And even in character, Silver fights to kill, so knocking her out isn't really an option for him. His powers, while perfectly suited to combat her danmaku, provide him no way of putting her down permantently, hence my inconclusive vote.
 
Not too sure if Silver can continue to "grab" stuff while he is already holding it, but that might just have been the person who was playing the game (or one of the numerous glitches). Just from watching the gameplay, Silver doesn't have unrestricted psychic energy (like I thought) and still has his annoying blue bar to hinder him. He has a quite noticable time after he throws the objects (big starbit thingys) in which he can be hit and loses some rings. And the loss of rings in super form is very canon. Im pretty sure that in the beginning of Sonic Unleased, Super Sonic has his rings shocked out of him, causing him to revert to normal sonic. In addition, Shadow, Sonic, and Silver all have voicelines that say something along the lines of "Your Ring Energy is low! Switch with me."

The more objects that Silver grabbed, the more of his bar was drained. I am guessing that he can't grab anything with an empty bar in super form, like in his normal form. This means that he will get hit often when trying to hold off walls of danmaku due to that limitation. Combined with the (approx) 99-200 second time limit, Silver will really be pressed for time in this fight, considering that maybe every 20 seconds he loses 10 rings from being hit.

Its a bummer that Super Silver wasn't explored more in future games. Being stuck in "Sonic: It's no use!" is a fate worse than death.

(Incase people don't know I am supporting Alice)
 
Honestly, I always thought that entire bar thing was just a game mechanic. LIke, can Shadow only fire off five or so chaos spheres before tiring? No, lol, he spams those things practically everywhere else. And in the cutscenes, Silver is often seen flying without any kind of difficulty with regards to his telekinesis. It mostly seems like game mechanics to me. In the cutscenes, there typically aren't such limitations. If there was no limit while playing the actual game, he could probably just toss the entire stage and one shot bosses ( :p ). As it stands, he typically just grabs whatever is in front of him without too much effort. Besides that, there's only a limited amount of space on his body with which to hit. I'm confident his telekinesis can at least protect the amount of space his body encompasses.

"It's no use!" Is probably what he'll say after he realizes that he can't kill Alice, lol.
 
I can see the bar just being a game mechanic. It would be really lame if Silver could only float for 2.5 seconds before falling through the stage. That still leaves the problem of rings. It will end up a battle of rings, and how many rings Alice can grab with her dolls before Silver gets them. It would be quite the interesting conflict. But in the end it's just a timer counting down for Super Silver's demise. His rings that give him his power end up being his greatest weakness.
 
Or he could just teleport away if he's overwhelmed by the danmaku. Yes unlike Shadow he doesn't abuse it, but he will use it juse in case. And again he always stays away from his opponent, and considering the fact that his range is better, Alice won't reach him.

Also the blue bar might be game mechanics, but I won't really argue about that.
 
Yeah Alice's danmaku really isn't going to do much in this fight, but her dolls would be invaluable. All she's has to do isn't deny Silver rings, and then she wins. Even if it was a battle going on for years, Alice would win, as her youkai Regenerationn would keep her alive as Silver scrambles for rings to keep himself alive.
 
Silver has limitless stamina. Rings are game mechanics. And if he sees the dolls coming towards him, he grabs them and throws them away in space

Although if you show me some evidence that trying to KO a Youkai is muda I'll change to inconclusive.
 
Rings are not game mechanics. They are referenced and spoken about a large amount in almost every sonic game. It's like saying Mario's Mushrooms are just Game mechanics. Because they are so spoken about by so many NPC's many of whom are not known to break the 4th wall, it's really hard to see them as game mechanics.

Fundamentally, the super forms are supposed to make you feel extremely strong, but also on a quickly decreasing time limit. I am fairly sure that every single Sonic Game that has super forms also has the decrease of rings.

Think about it, if the usage of rings was only gameplay and not canon, Sonic would just have to get One chaos emerald and he can beat all of Doctor Eggman's stuff. No need for any game to be created.

Super Sonic = Starman Both are time limit invincibilites
 
They are. Yes they are referenced in cutscenes, but I was talking about the time limit. For example, in one of the Advance games, Sonic stayed in his super form for a few days.
 
Yes I do see how Sonic was in his Super Form for a few days.

But during that time we don't see him at all. The only text we recieve is "A few days." During that time anything could've happened. And I am pretty sure collecting rings wouldn't be a stretch.

Even if the ring limit (time) wasn't an issue, eventually Alice would hit Silver, causing him to lose 10 coins. This battle could potentially go on for an extremely long time, but Alice has no way to lose, while Silver has a very obvious weakness.
 
And I am pretty sure collecting rings wouldn't be a stretch

Yeah, but now that's just an assumption. We are not sure, so I'll just give that up.

Alice would eventually hit Silver

Even if she can't reach him with danmaku, or he could just throw away the dolls coming at him ?

Alice has no way to lose

Yes she does. She can get tired, unlike Silver in his super form, then he can knock her out. Unless you show me evidence that knocking out a youkai is muda, since I don't remember. Or he could just throw her into space (I'm actually surprised Alice can't survive in space). Or nuke the Earth (considering the fact that he is bloodlusted)
 
Ellione I am assuming that you have played Touhou (correct me if I am wrong) so you would know that Alice doesn't throw her dolls at people. Like ever. The only evidence of that is when she corpse-bombs people with them, and even then that is one attack. She uses her dolls as a conduit for her danmaku and attacks. Look up any gameplay of Alice (for danmaku search up Touhou 7 stage 3, and for other attacks search up the fighting games 7.5/10.5/12.3. And once again, I find it hard to believe that there isn't a limit on the super forms. There has to be some sort of weakness to them. Otherwise Silver would have no trouble stopping Solaris."

Also I would like to see where you got this "infinite stamina" fact. It seems to have popped up multiple times in this thread, but I don't see any reference to his unlimited stamina in the games. I wouldn't count "truth by omission" because then Alice would also have infinite stamina
 
Sorry, that's my fault actually. I know Alice uses her dolls as a conduit, but I thought you were saying that she would use her dolls to throw them at her opponent. But here's the thing : she can't collect rings if Silver isn't hit.

Just because Silver has no notable weakness doesn't mean he would have no problem beating anyone. Solaris has temporal omnipresence too IIRC

Infinite stamina is written on his profile. If you find it sketchy go make a CRT, don't discuss it here.

Even then he can still send Alice to space. Or nuke the Earth.
 
Actually super form can be kept in for days look at sonic he kept it for days to get back to earth so silver running out because rings isn't that valid considering he scales to super sonic
 
Content revision thread. When you make a thread, at the very beginning, you chose a board. Here it's a CRT. Don't forget to add topics
 
I know this is already finished and whatnot, but pc-98 Alice was a human. Meaning she doesn't have her low-godly Regenerationn.
 
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