Shulk vs Arceus

[The_real_cal_howard]

Arceus didn't create the multiverse. Arceus is great at delegation. It wasn't Arceus but Palkia. Alvis is equal to Palkia. And even then, he's equal to Palkia's breath as opposed to his full power.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>there's no reason for Arceus to not be able to affect him, unless Arceus incapable of affecting himself
And this is exactly the point, the concept manip page literally says so, you can be a concept, but unless you show feats, you can't destroy it, so Arceus isn't able to knowcking out itself

Yeah no. This is an incredibly stupid limitation and I never even knew this was a thing for conceptual manip users until now.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Alvis is neither Type 2 or 3 (3 doesn't even exist anymore)

Alvis also mostly embodies the Monado and plus if you're saying that Arceus can affect him via embodying the same concept then the reverse is also true which means Alvis can use all his passives and other hax on Arceus.

Aside from fate and probability, the latter serving almost no use aside from possibly preventing OHK and instead a 2HK, most of Alvis's hax gets negated by plates or rendered null via Arceus's existence.

 

[StrymULTRA]

>Yeah no. This is an incredibly stupid limitation and I never even knew this was a thing for conceptual manip users until now.

Then make a CRT about it, I just reported what Concept Manip page said

 

[JoshSSJGod]

@Cal

Yeah, no. The AP is a lot closer than you're making it out to be as even Malos (Xenoblade) can destroy the Xeno-Multiverse who is complete fodder compared to Shulk who is not as powerful as Alvis.

Alvis's hax do not get negated by Arceus's plates as not only do they not fall under the conditions for it "Can nullify virtually any attack that can fall under an elemental type, making it nigh-impossible to damage Arceus with conventional attacks."


There is also the fact that Alvis mostly embodies the Monado which is not only something Arceus does not have control and therefore something he can't null of but also the fact that since Shulk is still here and able to do stuff so mess with Arceus with his own hax.

Still got more to say but gonna be a bit busy.

 

[Zeifyl]

@Cal
Alvis's hax do not get negated by Arceus's plates as not only do they not fall under the conditions for it "Can nullify virtually any attack that can fall under an elemental type, making it nigh-impossible to damage Arceus with conventional attacks."

Precognition = Psychic, Probability Manipulation = Multiple (though most notably Ice), though this one is only known to be nulled to a minor degree, so might get past plates, Space-Time Manipulation = Dragon (and to a lesser degree, Psychic), Fate Manipulation gets past plates, Fear Manipulation = Multiple, Life-ForceAbsorption = Grass and/or Flying, Attack Reflection = Multiple, Reactive Power Level = Multiple and Healing = Multiple.

This is how the passives are from Arceus' perspective.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Cal

Plates negate anything that can be perceived as a type. Heck, space and time are dragon somehow. While I don't agree with stuff like probability being ice of all things like said above, most of Shulk's stuff do get plated.

Mostly embodying the Monado is even worse as Arceus can destroy that no problem. Arceus busts it with Shulk. No Monado means no Alvis.

Nothing I see implies that Malos is fodder if he can keep up with Pneuma, who iirc is a top tier in the series. And even then, the simple scaling chain of Palkia's breath/Dialga's heartbeat <<<<< Dialga/Palkia < Giratina <<< all three together << Arceus's avatar < Original Spirit

 

[Bware1]

@Cal

Plates negate anything that can be perceived as a type. Heck, space and time are dragon somehow. While I don't agree with stuff like probability being ice of all things like said above, most of Shulk's stuff do get plated.

Mostly embodying the Monado is even worse as Arceus can destroy that no problem. Arceus busts it with Shulk. No Monado means no Alvis.

Nothing I see implies that Malos is fodder if he can keep up with Pneuma, who iirc is a top tier in the series. And even then, the simple scaling chain of Palkia's breath/Dialga's heartbeat <<<<< Dialga/Palkia < Giratina <<< all three together << Arceus's avatar < Original Spirit

That's really not that impressive of a scaling chain as Xenoblade's scaling chain is about the same or actually slightly bigger: Zanza & Meyneth's Souls <<<Malos Powered by Artifice Aion < Rex & Pneuma << The Architect<<<Zanza with his and Meyenth's Monado's<<<Shulk<<<<< Alvis

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Destroying a Monado probably wouldn't do anything to Alvis because that would also apply to the fact that Zanza and Meyneth's Monados were also destroyed after the end of XC1, and despite that, Alvis still lives.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're missing the point. Also verse equalization. It being Aether based means little.

Somehow I doubt that given the profiles don't state who's superior to whom, and all the justifications are "can rarely the multiverse". Zanza doesn't have multiple tiers. Same with Meyneth. Their scaling links to True Monado Shulk, who from your list, is much higher. And when have Rex and Pneuma ever fought XV1 characters? Honest question. Furthermore, you're getting carried away with the < signs. When has anyone gotten stomped on the XV games?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Destroying a Monado probably wouldn't do anything to Alvis because that would also apply to the fact that Zanza and Meyneth's Monados were also destroyed after the end of XC1, and despite that, Alvis still lives.

They didn't have the true Monado iirc. Only Shulk does. And that's what he has here.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Yeah but Alvis embodies "Monado" as a whole, that would include theirs too.

 

[Bware1]

You're missing the point. Also verse equalization. It being Aether based means little.
Somehow I doubt that given the profiles don't state who's superior to whom, and all the justifications are "can rarely the multiverse". Zanza doesn't have multiple tiers. Same with Meyneth. Their scaling links to True Monado Shulk, who from your list, is much higher. And when have Rex and Pneuma ever fought XV1 characters? Honest question. Furthermore, you're getting carried away with the < signs. When has anyone gotten stomped on the XV games?

Except he does though. Zanza gets a major power boost when he aquires Meyenth's Monado making him stronger then his counterpart. Rex and Pneuma are above Malos who attempted to destroy the architect who is the other half of Zanza, but attacks from him didn't do anything. Zanza and meyenth's Souls have recreated the world multiple times.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wasn't the Zanza and Meyenth thing said to have reset the universe multiple times, not the multiverse? Not saying that they're not multiversal but wouldn't they not be the baseline for the scaling? Furthermore, an attempt doesn't mean that you'd succeed. From your own chain, Malos even at his peak would be fodderized by the Architect.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

You're missing the point. Also verse equalization. It being Aether based means little.
Somehow I doubt that given the profiles don't state who's superior to whom, and all the justifications are "can rarely the multiverse". Zanza doesn't have multiple tiers. Same with Meyneth. Their scaling links to True Monado Shulk, who from your list, is much higher. And when have Rex and Pneuma ever fought XV1 characters? Honest question. Furthermore, you're getting carried away with the < signs. When has anyone gotten stomped on the XV games?

Malos with the Artifice was going to "destroy all of existence" which would also include the Architect, who scales below Zanza with his two Monados. Shulk also one-shots Zanza immediately after he gets the True Monado. The justifications might also be revised soon too.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That would just put peak Malos on the level of true Shulk. Also who's to say that Architect would get purged too?

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

No, the Architect is weaker than Zanza with both his Monado and Meyneth's Monado.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm aware of that, yes.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Then that wouldn't put Shulk on Malos's level, he's the one who defeats Zanza with the 2 Monados.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Oki has some time, to start off. Verse Equalisation funny enough doesn't play that much of a factor here as Ether works much differently than Pokémon's elements like for example the elements actually existing in Xenoblade (Fire, Water, Lightning, etc etc) but those are treated much different than Ether itself like we don't see Melia using Matter Manipulation with her elemental manipulation.

I agree that the profiles are a bit of a mess (lot of knowledgeable members like DDM are making better justifications) but I can assure you that the list given by Bware is an accurate one.

Also just noticed the Vados pfp, noice

 

[Bware1]

Welp, Time's Up