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Shulk V.S Joker.

Correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure the Orb was not used in Ren's fight with Dante and yet that was added anyway.
 
It actually does

Honestly, equipment restrictions should be discussed in a thread, but I don't have a problem with it.
 
I believe it was 2 votes to 0 in favor of Shulk, make that 3 now with my vote since Joker doesn't have his orb. I see Shulk just narrowly pulling out a victory.
 
Just as a refresher what is the AP difference between the two and since Shulk is leading in the votes what is his win con again?
 
I mean. Joker does have Dekaja which negates all buffs on enemies. Or does Shulk resist that? Also dekunda which negates all debuffs on him.
 
Dekaja isn't a debuff from what I know it just nullifies buffs. If you use Dekaja on a target with no buffs it doesn't work on them.
 
Invigorate gives 7 Sp every time it goes off. Dekaja costs 10 Sp naturally this will have 3 Sp lost and now include all the other skills Joker will be using during the fight. Joker will likely be low on SP for a lot of the fight.
 
It might, regardless with constantly having to use Dekaja using other skills on top of it will naturally leave his SP decently low while Shulk can still just buff himself again.
 
Remember that their speed is equalized. The time it takes for Shulk to debuff Joker is an opening for Joker to attack.

Actually, who is even saying that the debuffs do anything substantial before Joker blasts Shulk with Sinful Shell? Shulk's AP scales to casually-baseline Low 2-C Alvis, while Joker one-shot Yaldabaoth who stomped people who beat the Holy Grail who's comparable AP-wise to Alvis.

To compare:

  • Shulk >= Alvis > baseline Low 2-C.
  • Joker w/ Satanael >>> Yaldabaoth >> Joker w/out Satanael > Phantom Thieves > Holy Grail > baseline Low 2-C.
The AP gap is massive.
 
Solacis said:
Remember that their speed is equalized. The time it takes for Shulk to debuff Joker is an opening for Joker to attack.

Actually, who is even saying that the debuffs do anything substantial before Joker blasts Shulk with Sinful Shell? Shulk's AP scales to casually-baseline Low 2-C Alvis, while Joker one-shot Yaldabaoth who stomped people who beat the Holy Grail who's comparable AP-wise to Alvis.

To compare:
Click to expand...
Umm, Shulk's scaling chain looks absolutely nothing like that. Also, even though speed is equalized, you're forgetting that Shulk still has precogniton on his side so he'll see any attacks Joker tries to pull in him in advance. And on top of that, Shulk's scaling chain should look more like this:

  • Shulk=Alvis>>>>Zanza w/both Monados>=The Architect>>>>Pneuma>>Logos powered by the artifice>>Meyneth's Soul=Zanza's Soul=baseline
 
That should really be noted on their profiles, then. The current justification implies Alvis is casually baseline and Shulk scales to that.
 
Yeah, that does need to be updated as that form of scaling for them was iirc before Xenoblade 2 so yeah. It needs updating.
 
And just to remind ya, Shulk's debuffs are in his attacks. He uses for example the Strength Down gem to debuff his opponent's attack by just attacking. Shulk doesn't need to cast anything as he can stay on the offensive.
 
oh right I just remembered something. Spell master For Joker. It halves the SP cost of every magic attack helping him conserve SP in this fight.

Granted it still looks like Shulk wins with bigh difficulty. But just thought I'd mention it.
 
I mean Not really. His persona does the casting and as persona 4 arena shows. persona users and persona's can act individually.
 
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