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Shulk V.S Joker.
- Thread starter Kople700
- Start date
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Yeah, pretty sure.
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Bump
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It's a pretty difficult match, and I think we are using a Shulk with Monado III and a Joker with Satanael. So... I think it would be a hard battle of stamina because Shulk can react to everything with visions and using Monado Arts, and on Joker's side him with Satanael is resistant to physical attacks (Monado Buster and normal arts) however not to Purge, Eater and Cyclone
About Shulk debuffs Joker can resists them or nullifying with Heat Riser. On the other hand if Joker uses Satanel he doesn't longer requires SP to cast spells.
So thinking about it well I'll go for Joker, out of game mechanics Shulk is just a Homs, any type of attack can kill him, not like Joker who can receive some damage thanks to the Phantom Suit.
About Shulk debuffs Joker can resists them or nullifying with Heat Riser. On the other hand if Joker uses Satanel he doesn't longer requires SP to cast spells.
So thinking about it well I'll go for Joker, out of game mechanics Shulk is just a Homs, any type of attack can kill him, not like Joker who can receive some damage thanks to the Phantom Suit.
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Took a look at Joker's profile after his it got a redo. I found that Joker does not resist Power Nullification ( if he does why was it not added with his resistance to Memory Manipulation ) and Perception Manipulation. With this in mind when Monado Purge hits Joker not only will he lose access to his Persona skills but he will also lose all of his senses giving Shulk the win via incap.
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You all know that the base of Joker's powers are his rebellious willpower, right?
Well, his willpower is strong enough to resist Yaldabaoth erasing him out of existence and capable of exist out of people's cognition.
Second point, and this is a reason why Joker is resistan or even can break throught Shulk's visions. It was prophesied that Joker was destined to die from misarable death after a failed crusade in stoping the corrupted masses, but yet he managed to defy that fate from ever happening.
Another feat to his enormous willpower is he rebeled against Caroline and Justine in the Velvet Room (place where he's a inmate and unable to uses his powers) in order of not diying alongside the Phantom Thieves. And not only that, he managed survive to powerful attacks from them.
So taking this I definitely think that Monado Purge is totally useless or less efective on Joker, at least to the point of make him lossing his Persona summoning.
Well, his willpower is strong enough to resist Yaldabaoth erasing him out of existence and capable of exist out of people's cognition.
Second point, and this is a reason why Joker is resistan or even can break throught Shulk's visions. It was prophesied that Joker was destined to die from misarable death after a failed crusade in stoping the corrupted masses, but yet he managed to defy that fate from ever happening.
Another feat to his enormous willpower is he rebeled against Caroline and Justine in the Velvet Room (place where he's a inmate and unable to uses his powers) in order of not diying alongside the Phantom Thieves. And not only that, he managed survive to powerful attacks from them.
So taking this I definitely think that Monado Purge is totally useless or less efective on Joker, at least to the point of make him lossing his Persona summoning.
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Joker's will power alone isn't enough to resist just any hax that gets thrown at him, that's a bit of a NLF. Also, I'm pretty sure it's been discussed earlier in the thread that Chihaya's clairvoyance is not quite on the level of Shulk's, seeing that he's able to see into Zanza's future, despite the fact that Zanza has acausality type 2 and there's also the fact that Shulk can see the past, present and future on an omnipresent scale.
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Shulk's Precognition and Clairvoyance is absurdly better than Chihaya's, it's no where near even remotely close. Shulk's is on the level of "every possibility that can exist" on an Omnipresent Scale and was stated by Alvis and that through his Visions he was able to change The Passage of Fate, he's also precoged Zanza who has Acasuality Type 2 and with his own and Meynth's Monado's planned to Merge with the Passage of Fate.Nottodisushitto said:
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Oh, I see, that's true though. However if I'm not wrong not only Chihaya "predicted" his misarable death after the failed crusade, Igor (Yaldabaoth) and Lavenza as well said "the posibilities of winning are low"
Anyway I think I will go for Inconclusive if Shulk doesn't had a Universal+ durability without Monado Arts, because as I stated before Shulk out of game mechanics it just got a normal body and any attack of Joker could kill him if he touches it.
On other way if Shulk homs body has the capacity to receive universal attacks then I vote for Monado boi cause the only way to killing him it would be that Shulk uses Monado Barrier and Joker an Almighty spell, spell that if we count they are the same as SMT then it would be enough to kill Shulk
Anyway I think I will go for Inconclusive if Shulk doesn't had a Universal+ durability without Monado Arts, because as I stated before Shulk out of game mechanics it just got a normal body and any attack of Joker could kill him if he touches it.
On other way if Shulk homs body has the capacity to receive universal attacks then I vote for Monado boi cause the only way to killing him it would be that Shulk uses Monado Barrier and Joker an Almighty spell, spell that if we count they are the same as SMT then it would be enough to kill Shulk
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Since this is Monado 3 Shulk then yes. He can tank hits from Zanza's final form without the use of Monado Arts. ( and plus the game shows Shulk has more than just a normal body as shown much earlier as he falls off of the Mechonis without damage ).
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I don't know if it's really combat-applicable, but my best guess would be that it has something to do with the fact that Sinful Shell is made of the 7 deadly sins that Yaldabaoth used against the phantom thieves. Yaldabaoth was able to affect the phantom thieves' perception of human concepts. But I'm pretty sure Sinful Shell's main function is negating immortality.
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Bump
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Indeed
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Bump
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Graaaace
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Holy crap. I came back and this finally finished.
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Yay now I can continue Shulk vs Makoto
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Good luck
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I hate to be that guy, but I may or may not yet be convinced. Based on my understanding, Shulk's wincon is him stacking stat reduction debuffs on Joker until he gets a big enough AP advantage to win with Monado Eater. I see two problems with this:
1. Shulk's stat reduction is either position-based or activates on attack. For the former, he's got a huge disadvantage in that Joker greatly surpasses him in range with his spells and pistol, and SBA has them at a 4km starting distance, so the latter has a much greater control over their positioning. For the latter, again, Shulk lacks the range, and he also can't get past Null Physical, which would also negate secondary effects like stat debuffs.
2. Assuming Shulk managed to close the distance between himself and Joker, and assuming that he manages to catch him by surprise while he doesn't have a Null Physical persona equipped, and assuming he manages to keep Joker on the back-foot and get a few more hits in... so what? Joker can easily switch to a Null Physical persona as soon as he realizes he's being hit with a sword, then send in said Persona to occupy Shulk, all while he distances himself again and casts Dekunda to get rid of all the debuffs. They'd be back where they started, except Joker would have sunk in some notable hits during Shulk's attempt to approach, while Joker himself would be all healed up and back to spamming AOE spells from kilometers away.
I really don't see how this works out in Shulk's favor, unless I'm missing something.
1. Shulk's stat reduction is either position-based or activates on attack. For the former, he's got a huge disadvantage in that Joker greatly surpasses him in range with his spells and pistol, and SBA has them at a 4km starting distance, so the latter has a much greater control over their positioning. For the latter, again, Shulk lacks the range, and he also can't get past Null Physical, which would also negate secondary effects like stat debuffs.
2. Assuming Shulk managed to close the distance between himself and Joker, and assuming that he manages to catch him by surprise while he doesn't have a Null Physical persona equipped, and assuming he manages to keep Joker on the back-foot and get a few more hits in... so what? Joker can easily switch to a Null Physical persona as soon as he realizes he's being hit with a sword, then send in said Persona to occupy Shulk, all while he distances himself again and casts Dekunda to get rid of all the debuffs. They'd be back where they started, except Joker would have sunk in some notable hits during Shulk's attempt to approach, while Joker himself would be all healed up and back to spamming AOE spells from kilometers away.
I really don't see how this works out in Shulk's favor, unless I'm missing something.
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Been awhile so I don't exactly remember but iirc Joker does not resist Power Nullification ( resisting Forget is counted as resistant to Memory Manipulation ) and Perception Manipulation. So Joker will not only not have access to a Persona but also has no senses to do anything with so win via Incap. Regardless it is a tad bit too late now.
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What was Jokers counter to Precog again? I legit don't remember
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Then why was it not added to his profile?
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Just looked. Yup don't see any resistance to Perception.
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I find it funny though that Joker got multiple additions during this while Shulk stayed the same. Shulk's revisions should be coming....Eventually.
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Meh, no point on debating about it now. If ya want you can redo this fight in the future like Shulk Vs Goku.
