Shulk V.S Joker.

[Thatsafloridathing]

Ok, the OP said that Joker does not have access to his omnipotent orb

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Then for reasons stating above, Shulk FRA.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Ok, the OP said that Joker does not have access to his omnipotent orb

Where?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Go onto Kope's profile. You'll see the question there.

 

[Kople700]

Hey time to clear it up!

No, He does not have the omnipotent orb.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Then this can't be added, I'm pretty sure.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure the Orb was not used in Ren's fight with Dante and yet that was added anyway.

 

[Kople700]

If it causes any problems I can just give it to him

 

[The_Wright_Way]

It's because that key doesn't have the orb.

 

[Schnee_One]

It actually does

Honestly, equipment restrictions should be discussed in a thread, but I don't have a problem with it.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Ah, okay then. Can someone remind me what the vote is at currently?

 

[Bware1]

I believe it was 2 votes to 0 in favor of Shulk, make that 3 now with my vote since Joker doesn't have his orb. I see Shulk just narrowly pulling out a victory.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Agreed, difficult win for Shulk.

 

[Bware1]

Just as a refresher what is the AP difference between the two and since Shulk is leading in the votes what is his win con again?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

iirc, his great precog and debuffing Joker while also buffing himself and stealing any buffs Joker uses.

 

[Jesterofgames]

I mean. Joker does have Dekaja which negates all buffs on enemies. Or does Shulk resist that? Also dekunda which negates all debuffs on him.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

He is immune to debuffs like that.

 

[Bware1]

He is immune to stat reducing debuffs

 

[Bware1]

On an unrelated note can Shulk's Stream Edge skill count as Vibration Manipulation for releasing Shockwaves?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Possibly, not exactly sure. You can ask for it as an addition in another thread if it is the case.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Dekaja isn't a debuff from what I know it just nullifies buffs. If you use Dekaja on a target with no buffs it doesn't work on them.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Regardless, that takes up Joker's SP while Shulk can keep buffing himself.

 

[Jesterofgames]

I mean i wasn't arguing for a joker win. Just pointing out Joker could have a way to negate Shulks Debuffs and buffs

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Yeah, I was just pointing out how that'll become an issue for Joker with his limited SP.

 

[Jesterofgames]

I mean he does have skills to Regenerate his SP over time.

Invigorate 1-3

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Invigorate gives 7 Sp every time it goes off. Dekaja costs 10 Sp naturally this will have 3 Sp lost and now include all the other skills Joker will be using during the fight. Joker will likely be low on SP for a lot of the fight.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Actually IIRC Invigorate 1-3 stack.

So Joker can regen up to 15 sp per turn. What accessory does joker have btw?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

We don't know. Accessories are not usually specified and the stack recovers 14 SP. ( just checked )

 

[Jesterofgames]

Doesn't invigorate 2 restore 5 sp though?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

It might, regardless with constantly having to use Dekaja using other skills on top of it will naturally leave his SP decently low while Shulk can still just buff himself again.

 

[Solacis]

Remember that their speed is equalized. The time it takes for Shulk to debuff Joker is an opening for Joker to attack.

Actually, who is even saying that the debuffs do anything substantial before Joker blasts Shulk with Sinful Shell? Shulk's AP scales to casually-baseline Low 2-C Alvis, while Joker one-shot Yaldabaoth who stomped people who beat the Holy Grail who's comparable AP-wise to Alvis.

To compare:

• Shulk >= Alvis > baseline Low 2-C.

• Joker w/ Satanael >>> Yaldabaoth >> Joker w/out Satanael > Phantom Thieves > Holy Grail > baseline Low 2-C.

The AP gap is massive.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Remember that their speed is equalized. The time it takes for Shulk to debuff Joker is an opening for Joker to attack.

Actually, who is even saying that the debuffs do anything substantial before Joker blasts Shulk with Sinful Shell? Shulk's AP scales to casually-baseline Low 2-C Alvis, while Joker one-shot Yaldabaoth who stomped people who beat the Holy Grail who's comparable AP-wise to Alvis.

To compare:

Umm, Shulk's scaling chain looks absolutely nothing like that. Also, even though speed is equalized, you're forgetting that Shulk still has precogniton on his side so he'll see any attacks Joker tries to pull in him in advance. And on top of that, Shulk's scaling chain should look more like this:

• Shulk=Alvis>>>>Zanza w/both Monados>=The Architect>>>>Pneuma>>Logos powered by the artifice>>Meyneth's Soul=Zanza's Soul=baseline

 

[Solacis]

That should really be noted on their profiles, then. The current justification implies Alvis is casually baseline and Shulk scales to that.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Yeah, that does need to be updated as that form of scaling for them was iirc before Xenoblade 2 so yeah. It needs updating.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

And just to remind ya, Shulk's debuffs are in his attacks. He uses for example the Strength Down gem to debuff his opponent's attack by just attacking. Shulk doesn't need to cast anything as he can stay on the offensive.

 

[Jesterofgames]

oh right I just remembered something. Spell master For Joker. It halves the SP cost of every magic attack helping him conserve SP in this fight.

Granted it still looks like Shulk wins with bigh difficulty. But just thought I'd mention it.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Gonna ask, would Joker casting that leave him open to an attack from Shulk?

 

[Jesterofgames]

I mean Not really. His persona does the casting and as persona 4 arena shows. persona users and persona's can act individually.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Alrighty then. Quick question though, with what ya said are ya voting Shulk?

 

[Jesterofgames]

Well yeah, I think it would be very tough for shulk but with speed equalized I think he'd win with a tough fight.