Shin Megami Tensei character ratings?

[Antvasima]

I have always considered these character ratings to be speculative and unreliable.

Previously we have scaled them from the Anguished One supposedly being an at least 5-Dimensional hypercube, but even so, to assign them several degrees of infinity higher ratings seemed very suspicious.

Now, according to recent discussions, it has turned out that the hypercube interpretation may be inaccurate, and that the games are not sufficiently related to each other to reliably scale from this character anyway, which leaves us to start over from scratch again.

Given that I know very little about the franchise, help from the community would be very appreciated.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

From what little I know, it seems true form Anguished One should be somewhere in 2-A and that Polaris would be somewhere in the high 2-A to low 1-C area, as he's stated to be superior to AO, but by how much isn't specified. I have absolutely no clue where to place guys like Hitoshura, Aleph, and YHVH, but I assume they're all at least Multiverse+, as I believe Demi-Fiend took down a multiversal entity, YHVH has several much weaker avatars who are apparently multiversal, and Aleph is almost as strong as YHVH.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but given that each higher-dimensional step means an infinite number of times greater, I am uncertain if this warrants the "High 1-C" or "Low 1-B" ratings that I think they have currently. That is at least infinity^6 times greater than Multiverse level+/5-dimensional.

 

[Darkness552]

from what ive read in the discusions they seem to be Low 1-C

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I personally don't believe it's warranted, as we have absolutely no idea how much stronger Aleph and YHVH are. The entire cast could be varying degrees of 2-A, for all we know.

 

[Darkness552]

True but when Demi-Fiend defeated Kagutsuchi it destoryed the Amala Universe which has infinite universes i believe, then doesn't he get stronger after that

although i could be wrong since its been a long time since ive played any SMT game

Aleph and YHVH are the ones i don't know about

 

[MagiSinbad]

Well, i cant say anything much. I only played Devil Survivor series, but since Devil Survivor 2 is outside the original timeline (split timelines btw) , the original series should just stick to it's own powerscaling. And so far, what i have seen, it's best power scaling is when Kagutsuchi created an infinite multiverse and being like Metatron, Lucifer, YHVH is appear to be stronger than him. So they possibly low 1-C ( i think... )


Also, after checking some infomation about YHVH on the wiki, i got this

"If the hero chooses to fight against YHVH, He claims that the hero will burn in hellfire until the end of the world. After fighting against them and losing, however, YHVH starts disappearing. Before vanishing completely, YHVH reveals that He was only a small part of the Great Will overseeing infinite universes, and that His vast consciousness will allow him to reform, warning the hero that he has chosen the harshest path for his future. All demons vanished with His death, granting humanity a reprieve. "

 

[Blahblah9755]

Well for why we can power scale from the Anguished one, it might be that he considers characters like Shiva to be a threat, and they're much weaker than most of the franchise's main characters.


Although I only really know the Devil Survivor games, so I can't say for sure. And I'm also a bit skeptical about him being a hyper-cube, as I don't recall seeing anything that would make me think he was one, except possibly his appearance.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Also the two Devil Survivor games should be connected, at least their Demon realms, since Frosty makes an appearance in the second game as a boss, talking about the power of love, which, realistically, no demon would ever be talking about were it not for Midori. We can then connect Devil Survivor to the rest of the franchise through Metatron and YHVH. I'm not sure if that's good enough reasoning, but that's the best I can think of.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Any more input regarding where we should place all of these characters?

 

[Darkness552]

like i said 2-A to low 1-C

 

[Antvasima]

All right. Would anybody like to help out cleaning up those pages? I am going to be busy with the daily backlog (after I wake up) for a few hours.

 

[Darkness552]

im not able to at the moment but i can in a few hours

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. We will see if I will have the energy to do so myself or not.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Hi there

Shin Megami Tensei is one of my top 5 game franchises and I have played nearly every game in the franchise and read some of the the novels + manga as well as watched most of the anime

Any way I can help here?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

Well, we need help to accurately scale the characters according to our system. Take note that being able to create or destroy an infinite number of universes is just High 2-A, an infinity greater than that is just Low 1-C, and so onwards.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Pretty sure it's 1-C or so for high tier SMT characters then. The Shin Megami Tensei franchise is one big megaverse, with there being some infinite multiverses (the amala labyrinth comes to mind) and there being some finite multiverses/universes (Schwarzwelt and Persona's comes to mind) which YHVH, Great Will, Aleph, Full Potential Hitoshura/Demi-Fiend, etc can affect. Can't say that it's anything more than that.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

@Magi About this part

"If the hero chooses to fight against YHVH, He claims that the hero will burn in hellfire until the end of the world. After fighting against them and losing, however, YHVH starts disappearing. Before vanishing completely, YHVH reveals that He was only a small part of the Great Will overseeing[1] infinite universes, and that His vast consciousness will allow him to reform, warning the hero that he has chosen the harshest path for his future. All demons vanished with His death, granting humanity a reprieve. "

That's from the NES Megami Tensei games which are not part of the Shin Megami Tensei continuity afaik (Hence the Shin part of the title)

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Also I tend not to take things like "fifth dimensional" or the like seriously when VS debating and all that jazz

Here is one of my Shin Megami Tensei blogs if it is needed, for reference: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=26209

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. And are these simple multiverses of the "collections of 4-dimensional universes" variety, or full multiverses of the 11-dimensional variety?

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Regular universes more or less I believe, however the likes of YHVH and Anguished One reside in higher planes of existence. Nyarlathotep also created a dimension in Persona 2 although it might have been a parellel one and I forget whether or not he was considered higher dimensional

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

Although, as a sidenote, as staff in this wiki, it is good if you understand the basic principles of infinity in projective geometry. You can read a simple explanation here.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Wait, I am staff? Oh, sweet. I probably missed that since my current email is not connected to this account. I really should check my wall more often

And thanks, will read right now

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. You are a part of the calculation group, which is part of the staff.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, could you check through the SMT profiles for potential errors? Also, what did you mean with that the Anguished One resides in a higher plane of existence? Is he a hypercube after all?

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Yeah, I already edited the Persona profiles anyways. Will get to the SMT ones later, have to double check some parts of Devil Survivor 2

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, please just double check your intended changes in this thread first for input.

 

[Darkness552]

so i did some pages but can someone review them to see if they are correct

here and here

 

[MagiSinbad]

@Blah Blah

Ah yeah, i totally forgot about Shiva and other Deities in DeSu 2 and yeah, AO has nothing to prove himself is a Hypercube , he never stated himself nor anyone has mentioned about this either

Wait ! Lovely Justice Frosty has appears in the game too ??? ah ! look like i miss that event :< but the problem is ... Devil Survivor 1 just make the timeline of SMT look... WEIRD ! because YHVH suppose to be got slayed by Aleph and now he's still up there, sitting on the heaven and gave the human the ordeal. The war between King of Bel (Abel) and YHVH supppose to be really huge but we never heard any other game had mentioned about this war.

@Classic

Thank for the information, also ,nice blog :3 but i dont think AO is a Higher Dimension entity, if we say that all the Septentrion is 5th dimension being then it will make no sense, Dubhe can only destroy a really small area ,other septentrionies failed to destroy a city. I really doubt AO can be considered to be an higher dimension being . At best (his true form), he should be 7-C

 

[MagiSinbad]

So...

low 1-C :

>YHVH

>Metatron

>Abel (Smashed Metatron like a bug )

>Demiurge

>Mem Aleph

>Lucifer

2A :

>Kagutsuchi

Any objection ? o3o

 

[Darkness552]

i got most of them except aleph, abel, YHVH and Lucifer, the latter two for being locked

 

[MagiSinbad]

Well, thank for your help Dark ! ^^

Can you unlock the pages ? Ant ? o3o

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I honestly feel like we might possibly be cutting YHVH and Aleph a bit short, as the former apparently controls the entire SMT multiverse and the latter fought him, but I'm not sure. I wouldn't doubt they're both "At least low 1-C, possibly High 1-C", but I've seen nothing to suggest they're higher than that other than baseless YHVH on forums.

 

[Darkness552]

when i went through them it is one of the reasons why i didn't edit Aleph yet, but they would probably be Low 1-C to 1-C in the 7th dimension because so far to me at least most of SMT is powerscaling

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, I will unlock YHVH and Lucifer. Can you remove all mentions of the characters being power-scaled from the Anguished One being a hypercube from all of the SMT pages as well?

 

[Darkness552]

yes i can thank you

 

[Antvasima]

No problem, and thank you back.

 

[Darkness552]

i have finished revising all of the SMT Pages

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Good. That is one problem less for me then. Now it is just the DC and Transformers pages that need some work done.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Oh, for future profiles, anyone know anything about SMT's Satan? I remember him being on relatively the same level as Lucifer, but I can't be sure.