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Shin Godzilla 5th form key deletion

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Does it really matter for something that doesn't move at all tho? Iirc there's a Earthbound boss form with N/A in AP.
 
QuasiYuri said:
Does it really matter for something that doesn't move at all tho? Iirc there's a Earthbound boss form with N/A in AP.
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Well as you can see on the calc I've made, the creatures are 6.52+ meters tall and weighs at very least 3.42 metric tons

Soo the Wall level rating is both accurate and fair enough to be honest..
 
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Here is what Kieran said in the blog:
The calculation is correct. But would not contribute to Lifting Strength.
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I think that moving efficiently with that weight should logically scale, but I am not a calc group member.

What do you think about enormous personal weight scaling to lifting strength @DontTalkDT ?
 
Personally, I think the key should be kept with the tier just being unknown. There are plenty of other unknown keys on the wiki (PED Samus comes to mind) and it is technically a form achieved in the movie. We know it would have all of the powers the previous form did save for the titanic size because each stage of evolution gained new traits but didn't lose old ones, so things like regeneration and atomic breath would still fit.

And it's too bad we can't include the further evolutions because I'd love a Tier 2 Godzilla. But they are waaay outside the canon of the final film version, so including them obviously wouldn't work. Also, @Apex_PredatorX, here is a video showing the further evolutions Shin Godzilla had in some of the early concepts.
 
LordNidhoggr said:
Personally, I think the key should be kept with the tier just being unknown. There are plenty of other unknown keys on the wiki (PED Samus comes to mind) and it is technically a form achieved in the movie. We know it would have all of the powers the previous form did save for the titanic size because each stage of evolution gained new traits but didn't lose old ones, so things like regeneration and atomic breath would still fit.

And it's too bad we can't include the further evolutions because I'd love a Tier 2 Godzilla. But they are waaay outside the canon of the final film version, so including them obviously wouldn't work. Also, @Apex_PredatorX, here is a video showing the further evolutions Shin Godzilla had in some of the early concepts.
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Well the calc I made stills a viable option since we know the 5th form GPE.
 
LordNidhoggr said:
We know it would have all of the powers the previous form did save for the titanic size because each stage of evolution gained new traits but didn't lose old ones, so things like regeneration and atomic breath would still fit.
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this is just a baseless assumption sadly, it's just a pattern that doesn't actually prove anything
 
Antvasima said:
Hmm. No reply.

Can you provide information about this instead @Mr._Bambu and @Damage3245 ?
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It is my opinion that colossal personal mass should scale to lifting strength, yes. We have rules against this but as far as I'm aware, these are old and potentially outdated. A discussion may need to be had.
 
Okay. It would have to be handled in the calc group forum and preferably involve DontTalk though.
 
Well, a calc group forum discussion, if somebody is willing to create it.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
It is my opinion that colossal personal mass should scale to lifting strength, yes. We have rules against this but as far as I'm aware, these are old and potentially outdated. A discussion may need to be had.
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Antvasima said:
Okay. It would have to be handled in the calc group forum and preferably involve DontTalk though.
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Apex_PredatorX said:
Unfortunately I would not be able to explain very well the matter in question

But I hope there is someone else here able to do so.
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@Mr._Bambu

Would you be willing to handle it?
 
Isn’t lifting strength from your own mass pretty irrelevant, since they’re constantly gonna be holding up their own weight? It’s like if a fat person weighs 700 pounds and can walk, that doesn’t mean they can do a 700 pound deadlift
 
I think that being able to move a personal weight of thousands of metric tons at a reasonably swift speed should logically at least somewhat scale to the relevant character's lifting strength.
 
ZillerBucko said:
Isn’t lifting strength from your own mass pretty irrelevant, since they’re constantly gonna be holding up their own weight? It’s like if a fat person weighs 700 pounds and can walk, that doesn’t mean they can do a 700 pound deadlift
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Shin's 5th form can walk though.

There are models showing the 5th form standing on both legs.
 
Apex_PredatorX said:
Shin's 5th form can walk though.

There are models that shown the 5th form standing on both legs.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know it can walk but
if it's already spending some of its strength walking, there's no way to use that to quantify its actual effective lifting strength
Antvasima said:
I think that being able to move a personal weight of thousands of metric tons at a reasonably swift speed should logically at least somewhat scale to the relevant character's lifting strength.
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maybe you do have that opinion which is somewhat agreeable, but it's not really quantifiable at all, especially on a case by case basis
 
ZillerBucko said:
Yeah I know it can walk but
if it's already spending some of its strength walking, there's no way to use that to quantify its actual effective lifting strength

maybe you do have that opinion which is somewhat agreeable, but it's not really quantifiable at all, especially on a case by case basis
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Well Shin Godzilla's forms have been able to push things as big as themselves.

Also this is as "At very least", like we are talking about a 6 meters humanoid, so giving it At least Class 5 Lifting strength is likely accurate.
 
ZillerBucko said:
Isn’t lifting strength from your own mass pretty irrelevant, since they’re constantly gonna be holding up their own weight? It’s like if a fat person weighs 700 pounds and can walk, that doesn’t mean they can do a 700 pound deadlift
Click to expand...
While true, would you say a Godzilla-sized character is capable only of normal human lifting strength? Do you not see the issue with that? We're speaking in terms of ballpark. Lifting strength should, on some level, scale to physical size, I don't really see how that can be argued against without resorting to special situations.

Also, I can't imagine (just to dissect your example for a moment) a 700 person walking around easily, either.
 
Thank you for the help. I appreciate it.

Please inform me after you have created it.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
While true, would you say a Godzilla-sized character is capable only of normal human lifting strength? Do you not see the issue with that? We're speaking in terms of ballpark. Lifting strength should, on some level, scale to physical size, I don't really see how that can be argued against without resorting to special situations.

Also, I can't imagine (just to dissect your example for a moment) a 700 person walking around easily, either.
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On some level, yeah, an unquantifiable level without using headcanon
Shin godzilla obviously has higher than normal human lifting strength but that’s only because he has the feats to show it, I don’t think things get added just because they “make sense” since it’s too ambiguous for an actual ranking.
Also the 700 pound man doesn’t matter much, it’s just the point is that if that lifting strength is already being used to lift their own weight, then it’s not applicable to anything (unless they’re using their weight to crush people or something)
 
ZillerBucko said:
On some level, yeah, an unquantifiable level without using headcanon
Shin godzilla obviously has higher than normal human lifting strength but that’s only because he has the feats to show it, I don’t think things get added just because they “make sense” since it’s too ambiguous for an actual ranking.
Also the 700 pound man doesn’t matter much, it’s just the point is that if that lifting strength is already being used to lift their own weight, then it’s not applicable to anything (unless they’re using their weight to crush people or something)
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So you are agreeing with me, but feel it is unquantifiable. That's enough for me, you have agreed with me fundamentally, the specifics can be worked out later. Colossal size should scale to Lifting Strength in some way.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
So you are agreeing with me, but feel it is unquantifiable. That's enough for me, you have agreed with me fundamentally, the specifics can be worked out later. Colossal size should scale to Lifting Strength in some way.
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Soo what was decided in the large size and Lifting strength thread?
 
The consensus has been split. Some individuals, such as Kieran, feel it isn't reasonable to any degree, whereas others have been proposing ideas as to how this could work. The most reasonable of these options came from the average human mass-to-human lifting strength ratio (which is almost 1:1), meaning if we went with that, a character's mass could be used to determine their physical lifting strength in the void of other feats, with no math actually required barring finding their approximate mass.
 
Okay. Thank you for the reply.

If it is the thread that I recall, I think that DontTalk had some compromise suggestions about scaling from feats that clearly show the ability to lift at least one's own body weight, such as via flight or acrobatics.

Can you link to it here please? Maybe I can help the thread reach a conclusion in that case.
 
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Mr._Bambu said:
The consensus has been split. Some individuals, such as Kieran, feel it isn't reasonable to any degree, whereas others have been proposing ideas as to how this could work. The most reasonable of these options came from the average human mass-to-human lifting strength ratio (which is almost 1:1), meaning if we went with that, a character's mass could be used to determine their physical lifting strength in the void of other feats, with no math actually required barring finding their approximate mass.
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Well most kaiju are definitely stronger than just giant humans, as their biology makes them able to withstand their mass to not be crushed under their own weight..
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Some individuals, such as Kieran, feel it isn't reasonable to any degree
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I'm more so in agreement with DontTalk. I believe if Kaiju actually have feats or implications that they should in any way be able to lift their own weight (Such as Acrobatics), then I see no reason why they shouldn't scale to their own weight. I do not believe simply standing up is anywhere near enough evidence to suggest such though.

Edit: Ngl I thought this was the Large Size LS Scaling thread, nvm.
 
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