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Shigekuni Yamamoto Genryuusai vs Hitsugaya Toshiro

The4Godlike

The4Godlike

403
23
At their strongests , who do you think would win ?

In my personal opinion , since Hitsugaya said that he can freeze all matters ( fire , earth , water , air ) and even Reishi ( he froze the Reishi Bow of Gerard ) , he can freeze Zanka No Tachi as he did against Gerard's Hoffnung and Zanka No Tachi will be useless anymore.

And unlike Kid Toshiro , Adult Toshiro just freezes everything.He is not using the water in atmosphere.He just freezes everything.(Freezing means slowing down the electrons around atom's core btw.).So even if Yamamoto's Bankai has 15.000.000 degrees and vaporizes all the water in atmosphere , it wont matter for Toshiro.

If Yamamoto can't use Zanka No Tachi , that makes him even lower than 7-A because he wont be able to use even his Shikai while Hitsugaya is 6-B.And there is only 2 ways of Yamamoto to beat Toshiro.Either by Physical Force or Kido.

Kido is also useless because Toshiro can freeze even Reishi.(as he did Gerard's Reishi Bow.).

So it is only the Physical Force of Yamamoto(as he did against Wonderweiss) that leads Yamamoto to victory.But i dont think that will be enough.

So i think that Hitsugaya wins.

What do you guys think about that ?
 
The 15.000.000 degrees flames(yeah I know it's not an actual flames) is not his sword but rather his armor, his sword is neither burns nor erupts but existence erasure anything he touch and I doubt Toshiro can negates existence erasure sword... But frankly he just need to avoid yama sword and freeze yama instead(and avoid Zanka no Tachi North too, but yama most likely won't immediately use it.)
 
toshiro stands no chance, use logic

Yamammoto in shikai could 1 shot High tier SR like Bazz-b and mid tiers like AS nodt with ease

it means Shikai Yammamoto in Shikai/Base > Bankai Toshiro before Maturity by alot.

so use logic if Shikai yamamoto is sveral times stronger than bankai toshiro then even if he goes bankai yamamoto going bankai would just be the same all over again.
 
Use logic, this is TRUE bankai toshiro who can one shot Hoffnung Vollständig Gerard Valkyrie who is far above Vollständig Bazz-b and nodt.

lol
 
Also use logic again as True bankai Toshiro is actually have better feats than bankai kenpachi even though shikai kenpachi has much better feats than bankai Toshiro...
 
you are comparing a newly formed uncontrolled bankai against toshiro, great, not only that kenpachi himself was not the one that release bankai he had no control over it while toshiro obviously had decades to train his, kenpachi has not had the time to even master his own shikai.

not only that kenpachi bankai is physcial base while toshiro is elemental/magical base is like comparing a yamamotos zanpakuto to Unohana.
 
Great Comparing yamamoto's zanpakuto to Unohana, who got one shot by base kenpachi and toshiro true bankai is much stronger than kenpachi bankai, also physical or not thats doesnt stop the fact that toshiro can cleave Gerard Hoffnung, which Kenpachi Zaraki can't.
 
Isn't zanka no tachi basically the predator even for the Matured Daiguren Hyorinmaru

his bankai alone can melt the entire soul society and was troubling hitsugaya when he activated it IIRC

toshiro's only hope is nullifying yama's bankai before the flames ultimately becomes too much for him to endure

but if yama activates Zanka no Tachi, Nishi: Zanjitsu Gokui i dont think it'll be very easy for toshiro

also regarding toshiro's "freezing all matter" thing

i myself think that the ice it produce has a melting point,and yama's bankai is more than capable of producing such temperature (15 million IMO is too much)

and i think yama is capable of doing what gerard did (breaking out of the ice quick enough to not have his powers nullified) only difference is it may be easier since he has his bankai to help him out with that

i say yama wins (for now)
 
Not Jim Sterling said:
Technically 15 millions is not really that hot(nuclear explosion is hotter than that) but i can see your point.
Click to expand...
we dont really have confirmation that the ice the matured version produces has a bulkier melting point than the regular bankai (though it's likely,i still dont think its at a completely different league than the melting point of the regular bankai)

yama's bankai was already preventing toshiro from properly using daiguren hyorinmaru,and yama wasn't even intentionally causing it
 
Yomi Schwarz said:
we dont really have confirmation that the ice the matured version produces has a bulkier melting point than the regular bankai (though it's likely,i still dont think its at a completely different league than the melting point of the regular bankai)
yama's bankai was already preventing toshiro from properly using daiguren hyorinmaru,and yama wasn't even intentionally causing it
Click to expand...
Actually I agree with The4Godlike on this matter.

And unlike Kid Toshiro , Adult Toshiro just freezes everything.He is not using the water in atmosphere.He just freezes everything.(Freezing means slowing down the electrons around atom's core btw.).So even if Yamamoto's Bankai has 15.000.000 degrees and vaporizes all the water in atmosphere , it wont matter for Toshiro.

Since I believe under normal circumstances you can't freeze fire, unless toshiro True bankai has different way of freezing thing and not reliant on water in atmosphere(the ice on Gerard is probably just side effect since at that time there are water in the atmosphere) and in term of power his ability does increasing tremendously since True Bankai>Vollständig Gerard> Base Gerard>Toshiro Bankai.
 
Wanna ask this for the sake of prolonging and making the argument more interesting.

i think Yamamoto's reiryoku/spiritual pressure is leagues above toshiro even when it bankai,true or nah?

that can be a factor
 
I'm not sure since Toshiro true bankai is just recently revealed so yama might not even aware on its existence and thus still believe that he is the strongest shinigami in soul society, but Toshiro should still be formidable opponent to Yama bankai since his true bankai is above Kenpachi bankai and base kenpachi himself is above unohana bankai who is just like Yama is belonging to the first generations of Captains.
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
Probably. You mean the superior reiatsu nullifying hax thing? Is that still a thing after the timeskip?
Click to expand...
I dont mean he nullifies it with his reiatsu,i specifically mean subduing him and using an all-out reiatsu crush

as for "is that a thing after the timeskip"

aizen did the same thing he did (sorta) with The Underbelly IIRC
 
@Yomi

Nah, he wouldn't be able to reiatsu crush Hitsugaya. Well, I don't really remember the thing with Aizen, but Askin did faceplant Ichigo with his hax.
 
I assume his flames>>reiatsu crush and why wasting energy on using his flames if he can reiatsu crush them? Aizen doesn't wasting his Kido on grimmjow when grimmjow annoy him.
 
Not Jim Sterling said:
I assume his flames>>reiatsu crush and why wasting energy on using his flames if he can reiatsu crush them? Aizen doesn't wasting his Kido on grimmjow when grimmjow annoy him.
Click to expand...
using reiatsu crush on three liutenant level+ characters (one of them had exp. overpowering a captain and the other one is capable of offsetting the flames of yama's shikai) will take much longer than simply burning them to dust

even so yama will always result to "burn first" tactic since he is much more used to/efficient in that area

wether his flames are greater than his fire is undecisive since we have no knowledge of what certain extent can he exert his spritual pressure all we know is that it is far higher than any of the other previous gotei 13 generation's at this point and it is likely superior to shunsui and comparable if not greater than kenpachi (the only one i can think of that may have a higher spirtual pressure is aizen) Being the oldest and therefore the most experienced Shinigami, Yamamoto possesses an extremely massive and powerful Reiryoku and one thing's for sure

his reiryoku is far superior to hitsugaya
 
@Yomi Schwarz

According to VsBattles Wiki both of them 6-B.

And IMO Gerard's Reiryoku when he was using Vollstanding far superior to Toshiro's.

But even so , Toshiro literally dominated Gerard.

So what im saying having more Reiryoku doesn't hinder Hax abilities.(at least after timeskip)

The same thing could go for Ishida vs Haschwalth.Again IMO Haschwalth had far more Reiryoku than Ishida but even so Ishida's Hax(Anti-Thesis) worked on him.
 
If yama cant finish off those 3 fodder Sternritter With his flames(as Bazz-B can kinda fight back with his own flames) then I doubt he can reiatsu crush toshiro who should be ridiculously more powerful than these 3 fodder Sternritter at their base form.
 
Isnt Hitsugaya's Stamina in his adult form is barely few seconds or 1 min max? he immediately got tired after used his full power Bankai,i dont think he can beat Yamamoto at such short time
 
Ryop said:
Isnt Hitsugaya's Stamina in his adult form is barely few seconds or 1 min max? he immediately got tired after used his full power Bankai,i dont think he can beat Yamamoto at such short time
Click to expand...

Yes and no since after that he somehow can continue to fight against Gerard.
 
It his Environmental Destructive bankai which forced Royd Lloyd to keep use Blut Vene, but forget about that since Royd Lloyd only High 6-C and his The Yourself doesn't copy Yhwach Strength.
 
SeriousDude said:
I'm also saying Hitsugaya takes this.He can literally freeze everything Yamamoto has.
Click to expand...
not really

it all boils down to

can hitsugaya freeze fire or can yamamoto burn ice

since shikai ryujin jakka can already melt toshiro's non matured bankai and render him unable to use it even from a mile (take note that ryujin jakka wasn't even directly harming toshiro's bankai)

and we really dont know if matured bankai's ice is that different to his normal bankai's,the way i see it the only difference is the added flash freeze (4 seconds) ability and the null powers technique,which was already over-ridden by gerard since he was able to escape the ice quick enough to not have his powers nulled via sheer brute strength (though its likely,its technically up for debate if gerard has resistance to power nullification)

their is nothing saying yama's fire cant melt through toshiro's ice and even if toshiro can freeze it,its not like the ice is completely resistant to the Existence Erasing fire's of zanka no tachi

inconclusive is the safest bet.
 
Yomi Schwarz said:
their is nothing saying yama's fire cant melt through toshiro's ice and even if toshiro can freeze it,its not like the ice is completely resistant to the Existence Erasing fire's of zanka no tachi

inconclusive is the safest bet.
Click to expand...
Freezing means slowing down the electrons around atom's core.Toshiro wont be using ice to freeze Zanka No Tachi , he will just freeze it by slowing down the electrons.And after freezing Zanka no Tachi , it can't be used anymore.So Existence Erasing is not a matter here.
 
Freezing means slowing down the electrons around atom's core.Toshiro wont be using ice to freeze Zanka No Tachi , he will just freeze it by slowing down the electrons.And after freezing Zanka no Tachi , it can't be used anymore.So Existence Erasing is not a matter here.

what? you basically just overcomplicated and circled your entire argument here xD

"Toshiro wont be using ice to freeze Zanka No Tachi , he will just freeze it by slowing down the electrons."

and?.....if you wanna freeze something you use ice....i dont know what your on about trying to say "electrons hurr durr" your basically just making your entire comment more flowery enough as it is

your assuming the Power Null works as fast as the flash freeze,if that's the case then how would you explain the case with gerard? completely fallacious

the "existence erasing" is absolutely a matter here since that's basically more OP than the entire concept of "Melting ice with fire" since your basically Reducing ice out of existence

Always remember the Case with gerard,its as troublesome enough as it is trying to circle the "power null,instant GG" argument as it is
 
Dude don't you know Physics or don't you wanna understand what i said above ?

If you decrease the electrons' speed till their speed is 0 , then they reach Absolute Zero and they will be frozen.

I meant that above.If Zanka No Tachi's electrons' speed is 0 , then it will be frozen.And what is frozen will be useless anymore.

And as for Gerard , he basically got rid of it because of The Miracle.(It is stated by Kubo that Miracles Never Cease.)
 
Absolute Zero is not superior to existence erasure, if anything it is inferior cause Absolute Zero cannot completly destroy somehing on sub atomic level while any existence erasure can do so, also why existence erasure is a factor here? toshiro don't need to freeze Zanka no Tachi East, just need to bypass Zanka no Tachi west.
 
If I'm not mistaken i am pretty sure that the "Miracles Never Cease" only meant to explain how Gerard survive after he got frozen completely and his body break apart(since the miracle convert the damage into physical power) not how his power not got nullify(like here ), "The Miracle" work only on physical damage
 
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