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She-Hulk vs Her self (GRACE) (Marvel vs Pokemon)

JustANormalLemon

JustANormalLemon

16,964
4,905
With so many battles lost by her, let's see if She-Hulk can make a comeback by fighting someone that is sure to loose any battle... Her self!!!

DITTO VS SHE-HULK!!

RULES:
SHE-HULK KNOW WHAT A DITTO IS
BATTLE IN THE GRASS OF A WILD POKEMON ROUTE
SBA

THE GREEN:

THE PINK/PURPLE: 8 (Lou_change, Imaginym, CrackerVolley, Random-Helper323, Cropfist, Artorimachi_Meteoraft, The_Axiom_of_Virgo, GlaceonGamez471)

THERE WILL NEVER BE A HULK FILM IN THE MCU(INCON):
 
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Ditto, has 1 weakness the profile may have neglected to mention:
SwordIt can reconstitute its entire cellular structure to change into what it sees, but it returns to normal when it relaxes.

Given that She-Hulk IC, might go for Social Influencing, it's possible she could end up in circumstances where she tries to talk to Ditto, it relaxes for the Diplomacy -Unlikely, given they're hostile per SBA & IDK why Ditto would go along with negotiations, even if it understood her- & ends up De-Transforming.

Does She-Hulk have the combat sense to try & succeed in exploiting this, should she observe it?
Then again....
  • While inside the game it can transform into any Pokémon and copy exactly the stats, powers, attacks and appearance except the HP of the opponent, it is argued that Ditto rarely transforms into an opponent weaker than itself in combat. It is suggested that thread starters state the starting level/tier of Ditto. For reference, the current tier of Pikachu (one of the most notable starter Pokémon) is at most Low 7-B. If the thread starter wishes to set the floor tier of Ditto, he should state that in the starting thread and Pikachu will be the floor tier. However, the ceiling tier of Ditto should limit to the tier of Mew is 5-B.
That note from the profile.
IIRC, combatants are at their strongest unless specified otherwise, & the OP set no floor for the Untransformed Ditto.
So if Ditto DID De-Transform, it using Struggle -If it used Transform too much & it exhausted its capacity to do so- or using the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon "regular attack" -If we consider that valid- to just bash itself against her would PROBABLY one-shot She-Hulk.

Still, Transforming into its opponent is Ditto's in-character move, & it's unlikely to de-Transform without some way of knowing She-Hulk is weaker.


What's MCU She-Hulk's combat experience? Basis of skill? Stamina?

Stamina: Superhuman

Intelligence: Gifted (She was a Deputy District Attorney at the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office, having graduated from UCLA with a law degree and spent years building her career as a lawyer. Convinced a prison board to grant Emil Blonsky parole. Convinced Donny Blaze to cease and desist from practicing Mystic Arts. A great character witness, as her testimony of Dennis Bukowski's self-absorbed personality helped Augustus Pugliese win his case. Nominated for Female Lawyer of the Year)

As you can see, I think her profile doesn't give much info on that; It certainly shows she's good at Social Influencing, at least.
Whereas, Ditto....


Stamina: Superhuman (The average Pokemon is hardwired for battle and can go on fighting for a long time despite being injured. Capable of spending a day on foot while fighting hordes of enemies in mystery dungeons with little to no breaks. Can swim between islands and continents with no breaks)

Intelligence: Below Average normally (Capable of coherent speech between other Pokémon, a degree of understanding of commands and social situations, and can solve minor puzzles, though still mostly driven by instinct), Above Average in combat (Pokémon are hard-wired for battle, even in the wild can master many moves and replicate the likes of Machop which train in all martial arts)


I don't see how Ditto loses this unless She-Hulk somehow outskills AND out-Staminas it, & even then, if it de-Transforms before being defeated -Even involuntarily, for example, because fighting She-Hulk as She-Hulk exhausts it- unless OP sets un-Transformed Ditto's "floor tier" around equal or lower than She-Hulk, Ditto tier-stomps her.

If this isn't a stomp, I'm tentatively voting Ditto for outdkilling/out-Stamina-ing She-Hulk, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.
If anyone has evidence She-Hulk has a chance, I'd love to hear it.
 
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Imaginym said:
Ditto, has 1 weakness the profile may have neglected to mention:
SwordIt can reconstitute its entire cellular structure to change into what it sees, but it returns to normal when it relaxes.

Given that She-Hulk IC, might go for Social Influencing, it's possible she could end up in circumstances where she tries to talk to Ditto, it relaxes for the Diplomacy -Unlikely, given they're hostile per SBA & IDK why Ditto would go along with negotiations, even if it understood her- & ends up De-Transforming.

Does She-Hulk have the combat sense to try & succeed in exploiting this, should she observe it?
Then again....
  • While inside the game it can transform into any Pokémon and copy exactly the stats, powers, attacks and appearance except the HP of the opponent, it is argued that Ditto rarely transforms into an opponent weaker than itself in combat. It is suggested that thread starters state the starting level/tier of Ditto. For reference, the current tier of Pikachu (one of the most notable starter Pokémon) is at most Low 7-B. If the thread starter wishes to set the floor tier of Ditto, he should state that in the starting thread and Pikachu will be the floor tier. However, the ceiling tier of Ditto should limit to the tier of Mew is 5-B.
That note from the profile.
IIRC, combatants are at their strongest unless specified otherwise, & the OP set no floor for the Untransformed Ditto.
So if Ditto DID De-Transform, it using Struggle -If it used Transform too much & it exhausted its capacity to do so- or using the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon "regular attack" -If we consider that valid- to just bash itself against her would PROBABLY one-shot She-Hulk.

Still, Transforming into its opponent is Ditto's in-character move, & it's unlikely to de-Transform without some way of knowing She-Hulk is weaker.


What's MCU She-Hulk's combat experience? Basis of skill? Stamina?

Stamina: Superhuman

Intelligence: Gifted (She was a Deputy District Attorney at the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office, having graduated from UCLA with a law degree and spent years building her career as a lawyer. Convinced a prison board to grant Emil Blonsky parole. Convinced Donny Blaze to cease and desist from practicing Mystic Arts. A great character witness, as her testimony of Dennis Bukowski's self-absorbed personality helped Augustus Pugliese win his case. Nominated for Female Lawyer of the Year)

As you can see, I think her profile doesn't give much info on that; It certainly shows she's good at Social Influencing, at least.
Whereas, Ditto....


Stamina: Superhuman (The average Pokemon is hardwired for battle and can go on fighting for a long time despite being injured. Capable of spending a day on foot while fighting hordes of enemies in mystery dungeons with little to no breaks. Can swim between islands and continents with no breaks)

Intelligence: Below Average normally (Capable of coherent speech between other Pokémon, a degree of understanding of commands and social situations, and can solve minor puzzles, though still mostly driven by instinct), Above Average in combat (Pokémon are hard-wired for battle, even in the wild can master many moves and replicate the likes of Machop which train in all martial arts)


I don't see how Ditto loses this unless She-Hulk somehow outskills AND out-Staminas it, & even then, if it de-Transforms before being defeated -Even involuntarily, for example, because fighting She-Hulk as She-Hulk exhausts it- unless OP sets un-Transformed Ditto's "floor tier" around equal or lower than She-Hulk, Ditto tier-stomps her.

If this isn't a stomp, I'm tentatively voting Ditto for outdkilling/out-Stamina-ing She-Hulk, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.
If anyone has evidence She-Hulk has a chance, I'd love to hear it.
Click to expand...
As far as I'm aware the only traning she had was with bruce whem she was beingh teached how to use her "Hulk" powers, but no actually fighting traning

And tecnically she hulk going for social influence to calm ditto down is a win condition, just not one she would go for most of the time.... maybe more sinse she knows what a ditto is and the fact she is fighting her self
 
JustANormalLemon said:
As far as I'm aware the only traning she had was with bruce whem she was beingh teached how to use her "Hulk" powers, but no actually fighting traning

And tecnically she hulk going for social influence to calm ditto down is a win condition, just not one she would go for most of the time.... maybe more sinse she knows what a ditto is and the fact she is fighting her self
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't she try to SI? She's a lawyer, no?

That said, what argument could she even give that'd both be understandable & persuasive to Ditto, especially given they're hostile to each other.
"I know you just commited identity theft & aggravated assault, but give up & I'll let you live with me & have half of each of my paycheques. You can buy all the Pokemon treats & whatever other junk a Ditto wants."
"No! She-Hulk no need talky lady's money! She-Hulk hate She-Hulk!"

Does Ditto copy Intelligence?
 
JustANormalLemon said:
It's acttually looking like a stomp....
Click to expand...
Basis? You did argue she has a win condition via Social Influencing, no?
In theory, she MIGHT be able to convince it, but being IC but willing to kill & do anything to win means they're not exactly fighting on friendly terms, & it's unclear what terms she could offer that Ditto would both understand & accept.
Random-Helper323 said:
Sounds like Ditto takes it due to skill and stamina. Plus She-Hulk is overconfident, which gives her a notable weakness.
Click to expand...
To her credit, OP specifies she knows what a Ditto is, plus since she can tell her opponent is literally another her, she MIGHT realize this is a stalemate, more or less; Her Stamina should last long enough for her to be able to figure that out, though IDK exactly how well she'd use that info.
 
JustANormalLemon said:
Anything a pokemon can do to try calm down a wild pokemon atacking them
Click to expand...
I meant for She-Hulk arguing to Ditto, but I guess let's try to approach this like the 5 Stages of Grief.

1. Denial:
"We don't need to fight each other! Or at least, you don't really wanna fight me! I'm really strong!"
"Yes I do want to! Also, we're equally strong!"
(Pretty sure there's evidence in canon that often, Pokemon LIKE battling.)
2. Anger:
"Just go away already! You're ugly, stupid & not even that strong!"
"No! Also, I'm literally you & that just makes me want to beat you more!"
3. Bargaining:
"Stop fighting & I'll give you a bunch of treats or money or a nice home!"
"I want to fight you, though!"
Honestly, might have the best chance, but Ditto might not care or just reason it can take that anyway when she's dead, or by interrogating She-Hulk.
4. Depression:
4-A."Ugh, this is pointless. I give up." This won't happen because characters won't voluntarily just give up.
4-B. "This is pointless. Let's just stop, please."
"But I want to fight you!"
5. Acceptance:
IDK, uhhh....?
"Fine then, we have to fight each other. But can we do it later?"
"Sure, let's fight again some other time!" (Does this count as surrender, incapacitation or does it just mean the match would take more time within the scenario to conclude?)

As for what Pokemon can do to calm down a wild Pokemon attacking them that involves Social Influencing.... IDK if She-Hulk has Empathic Manipulation any better than a regular human.
Also, IDK if the effects of something like the Infatuation status is something that can be inflicted by Social Influencing.

Frankly, though, I don't think I WANT to think about any combination of 1 or both of the participants in this match involving "Infatuation".
 
Imaginym said:
Basis? You did argue she has a win condition via Social Influencing, no?
In theory, she MIGHT be able to convince it, but being IC but willing to kill & do anything to win means they're not exactly fighting on friendly terms, & it's unclear what terms she could offer that Ditto would both understand & accept.
Click to expand...
Yeee, the more I think the less likely It seens
 
JustANormalLemon said:
Yeee, the more I think the less likely It seens
Click to expand...
I'd like to think it'd be IC for her, & she has enough time to realize to try it... but there's not that many scenarios where it succeeds, since she has to have an offer Ditto understands & accepts, & for that matter, if she ends up causing Ditto to De-Transform as a result of relaxation or laughter & for some reason, it somehow can & does attack her while De-Transformed (Ex: Because of a sucker punch.), Ditto would tier-stomp her with a single hit, presuming OP hasn't set its Floor Tier low enough.

Plus, there's the chance she DOESN'T try it because anger issues. (Plus, I've heard some claims that MCU She-Hulk isn't actually a very good lawyer. If this is true, it'd be a discredit to her chances to succeed with SI.)
 
I have no idea... maybe we can say she is smarter and sinse she know what ditto is she might try to just avoid It and tire Itup too? I don't know
 
JustANormalLemon said:
I have no idea... maybe we can say she is smarter and sinse she know what ditto is she might try to just avoid It and tire Itup too? I don't know
Click to expand...
She probably is smarter, but as already detailed, she has way less combat experience, seeing as Pokemon generally like to battle, & Pokemon have better Stamina feats, so Ditto probably outlasts her if she tries to exhaust it via straight up means.

Going for a more avoidant means of exhaustion/attrition might work, but I'm not sure her anger issues would make that viable in the long term; I'm skeptical She-Hulk wouldn't just snap at some point & break up the hit & run or whatever.

She could try Social Influencing to trick Ditto somehow, maybe. Make it give her some time to run off & hide somewhere to rest & prepare an ambush, or let her sucker punch it... but those better be some big impact moves because "once bitten, twice shy"; After she betrays its trust once, maybe twice or a few times, it's probably gonna be a lot less interested in what little miss Lawyer Lawyer Pants on Fire has to say.
 
JustANormalLemon said:
I have no idea really
Click to expand...
That's fair. Personally, I say She-Hulk has a chance to win, but fails more often than not due to a combination of anger issues, her unlikely to have leverage -As she might not be winning in a straight-up fight- & Ditto probably being interested in continuing the fight because it's not uncommon for Pokemon to like battling, & using SI for Sucker Punching might not work enough times to break the Skill/Stamina gap.

So I'd guess Ditto wins this, with a bit more favor than She-Hulk, even though I think She-Hulk has some chances.
That's where my stance is.

Sorry for any bother. I feel that I can understand if you disagree.
Been a fun debate! Thanks for participating! If you wanna continue, though, please, feel free! (No offense meant.)
 
Imaginym said:
Sorry for any bother. I feel that I can understand if you disagree.
Been a fun debate! Thanks for participating! If you wanna continue, though, please, feel free! (No offense meant.)
Click to expand...
Don"t matter much, I was the one who made the thread so I'm just tring to make the debate walk, thank you for engaging, you are not a bother and have a great day/night
 
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