Shalltear Bloodfallen vs Cadis Etrama di Raizel

[Sir_Ovens]

Another Vampire battle!

Shalltear Bloodfalle

vs

Cadis Etrama di Raizel (Base Form)

Speed Equalized.

Win by Death or Incapitation.





Who wins and why?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

My vote to Raizel. Even in his base form, he outclasses Shaltear in all physical stats, and even if she uses Einherjar, it is just a clone with the same physical ablitites and no magic, so it is still outclassed by Rai. His blood fields have massive AoE, so even if there are two of them its not going to make them any harder to hit. Also, while Rai is resistant to mind control (Regis tried to hypnotise him and it didn't work) and has controlled beings who should similarly be resistant to mind control (the family leaders), Shaltear (despite her undead status which should grant mind control resistance) has been controlled by Downfall of King and Country, and I think this probably means he could control Shaltear, or at least slow her down (like Regis does to his enemies). And as for all her other abilities, from what I've seen (having read the manga, light novel and watched the anime), none of them are actually hax, they are just projectiles that can be evaded or blocked. And as for their blood manipulation powers cancelling each other out or something, the only time I remember Shaltear showing blood manipultion is her creating an orb of blood from her victim's corpses and then throwing it at someone to kill them - a level far below Rai's bloodfields which can effectively warp reality within themselves. Even when Shaltear resurrects herself with the item (which could possibly not even happen if Rai's bloodfield destroys the item before it activates), he just kills them again. Finally, Rai doesn't actually get weaker as he fights. His power remains the same throughout the battle, and in one instance (his fight against Lagsus), his powers actually got stronger, even as he was coughing up blood from their overuse. So Rai wins low diff

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bump

 

[Sidali891]

A year old thread, damn.


Anyways. Monarch, if this is base Raizel, then how is his stats above Shalltear's? Who's at least 6-C against High 7-A?

Second, iirc shalltear is supposed to have complete mind manipulation immunity, not just resistance as said in her profile (idk why). Downfall of Castle and Country worked on her because it's a World Item whose effects work on those with even mind attacks/spells immunity, like Shalltear.

Third, as for Blood Manipulation, I agree it should be effective against Shalltear and it can prove decisive. However, she can reverse time to undo the effects as she did against Ainz when he slashed her with a spatial-type spell, although she can only use it 3 times.

Lastly, Shalltear has the advantage of teleportation and accelerating time to increase her speed, especially in a speed equalized battle.

I don't see Raizel taking this easily, not a chance. It would certainly be a good fight, but I'd give it to Shalltear eventually, mainly due to her summoning and Einhenjar. She can heall off of her minions and use her trump card to stall the enemy, and Einhenjar is more than capable of stalling Raizel, even if it doesn't have the skills and magic Shalltear has, it still possesses the same stats and resistances.

 

[OpMasada]

Isn't this a necro?

And it seems everyone tends to call things resistance due to immunity being a loose term, which I agree with because otherwise we have the guy in my profile pic lolnoping virtually anyone.

And after shalltear reverses time she gets fked again if she's unable to defend again whatever his blood fields are, she also cannot attack while accelerating time.

I don't know who this guy is, but as monarch said if blood fields have huge AoE and are capable of destroying shalltear it wouldn't really matter.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Necro macro

 

[Lars911]

Shalltear wins, Rai gets very weak the longer the fight lasts, his only hope is using blood manipulation and there's a very high chance that won't work againest a Vampire in shalltear calibur that's also able to manipulate blood.

 

[OpMasada]

Another Necro?

 

[fandom_1for3]

I don't recall Shaltear having any resistance to mind control? At minimum, it hasn't been demonstrated in the manga or season one of the anime.

 

[OpMasada]

Undeads in Overlord have a natural resistance to mind manip.

Also, while I was browsing reddit, I saw this: Starts in Vol 3 pg 104:

"Overcome by panic, one of the sellswords screamed and depressed the lever on his crossbow.

The bolt tore through the air and embedded itself deep into Shalltear's chest. The impact made her waver slightly.

"—Loose!"

Upon hearing their leader's voice, the sellswords came to their senses, chased away their fear, and fired their crossbows as one.

The bolts which shot out roared like a downpour, riddling Shalltear's body with projectiles.

Of the 40 bolts fired, 31 of them had hit, each piercing deeply into her body. At this range, the bolts could even go through metal armor, so this was the logical outcome.

In addition, the four which had entered her head would have been fatal for a human being."

Further on on pg 107:

"Following that cry, an estoc impaled Shalltear's chest from behind — piercing her heart. It sawed up and down, as though to widen the wound.

"Die, you monster!"

The broadsword swing after that nearly clove Shalltear's head in half, its point stopping after it pierced her left eye.

"You lot, hurry up and get stuck in!"

As wails and cries rose from them, three mercenaries hacked at Shalltear's body with the weapons they had at hand.

They swung over and over again, but Shalltear still stood firm, despite having a broadsword buried halfway into that face of hers. Said face bore a frightening smile, with no sign that she was in pain at all."

So it seems raizel can still kill her despite her tier, even if she wasn't in pain, she still very obviously took damage

 

[fandom_1for3]

How good is her resistance? Mind control is common among Nobles but most people have a high enough resistance to make it irrelevant except against Raizel.

 

[OpMasada]

How good is her resistance? Mind control is common among Nobles but most people have a high enough resistance to make it irrelevant except against Raizel.

Can't say, undead are naturally immune to mind control in series and there's not really much "mind control" going on. Excluding World class Items, the best mind control shown in the series was Demiurge's ability to control the bodies of those below lvl 50, but it was resisted by a guy far below that just because he had an item that resisted mind manip

Shalltear did get affected by a WCI, but we don't know how strong those are, and they vary in strength/abilities too

 

[fandom_1for3]

In that case I find it doubtful that she can resist Raizel's commands. Though that alone may not win him the fight.

 

[Sidali891]

@OpMasada

Correction, Demiurge can mind control those who are below level 40.

Also, The item in question that allowed Jircniv to resist Demiurge's mind control was made by Wild Magic. A completely different magic system from the one Ainz, Demiurge and co use. The idea behind Wild Magic is that since it's completely diffferent from Tier Magic, since they're from two different worlds, both have no effect on each other. Therefore bypassing each other's deffenses, resistances and immunities.

In other words, it's durability/resistance negation, much like how Downfall of Castle and Country can affect even those with complete mind control immunities (Shalltear and the likes).

 

[OpMasada]

Can you give me a quote saying that it was made by wild magic? I don't remember anything like that.

Also, that's not resistance negation, ( at least in the sense that fights with the same power system can negate each other's resistance ) it's literally the reason why Verse equalization exists.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Wow. I stopped following this ages ago, and I come back to find that it's been necro'd twice. @Sidalia Also, in answer to your question about Raizel being stronger if it's just his base, that's because she's gone through upgrades since it was over a year ago that this thread was made! Also, it's listed as resistance not immunity because saying she is immune to mind manipulation gives the impression that no mind manipulation could affect her, no matter how good, which is ridiculous considering that mind hax like Sasha's or Methusulah's or Slaanesh's exists and that the best mind manipulation shown in Overlord (to my knowledge) are just baseline mind control abilities on a few fodder characters.

@Lars Raizel does not get weaker the longer he fights, this is a common misconception from how he uses his life energy as fuel or whatever. What actually happens is that he just keeps fighting at full strength while coughing up blood, and will presumably eventually keel over dead, but that limit has never been reached to my knowledge seeing as I stopped reading ages ago.

Anyway, this thread is over a year old, so I'm closing it.