Sephiroth's speed

[Jmanghan]

It just doesn't make any sense to me to write it off as a travel feat when there's no proof he can't fight that fast.
As I mentioned before, what about Genesis being > Bahamut Fury.

The gameplay itself proves that he can't, cutscenes prove that he can't.

Had he fought at that speed, the entire city of midgar would be destroyed, and contrary to what you'd believe, 11 seconds when traveling to a close-by planet isn't the speed of light.

 

[Antvasima]

However, just because a character can fly near lightspeed does not mean that we can automatically assume that an author allows it to have near infinite attack power. They do not generally apply logic in this regard.

 

[Jmanghan]

How do we know Bahamut Fury isn't FTL?

Traveling around the entire Earth 7.5 times in one single second is faster then getting to another planet in 11 seconds.

We aren't talking like foot speed, we are talking above the atmosphere, in space, circling the earth.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Okay, I've brought this point up, but what about the fact that Genesis is superior to Bahamut Fury?

 

[Jmanghan]

However, just because a character can fly near lightspeed does not mean that we can automatically assume that an author allows it to have near infinite attack power. They do not generally apply logic in this regard.

If we calculate foot speed, and then flying speed, as well as attack speed, we should get bahamut fury down.

 

[A6colute]

You also say his flight speed Ôëá combat speed. But those are only words. Without proof it means nothing.

Nah.

Look. Maybe his travel speed = fight speed. Maybe not. But without proof it's all mean nothing.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Then I don't exactly see what we can do about it.

Besides, I don't know if my logic would be accepted, but I feel travel speed = combat speed unless we clearly see that is not the case (Like with Silver Surfer).

 

[Jmanghan]

Okay, I've brought this point up, but what about the fact that Genesis is superior to Bahamut Fury?

You can't prove he's superior in speed.

Maybe strength and power, but not in speed, you can't, because he doesn't have any quantifiable speed feats that are up to par with Bahamut Fury.

 

[A6colute]

but what about the fact that Genesis is superior to Bahamut Fury?

And? It's not automatically means that he is faster.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Okay, at this rate we're going in circles. Seriously, I've only been up for a few hours and I'm already feeling annoyed and drained to where I want to just leave.

I consider travel speed = combat speed unless we clearly see otherwsie. You do not.

I consider Genesis being superior ot Bahamut Fury means he's faster. You do not.

I consider Zack to be FTL+. Guess what? You do not.

At this rate, I'm sure we'll never reach a conclusion unless we wait for other input.

 

[Jmanghan]

Then I don't exactly see what we can do about it.
Besides, I don't know if my logic would be accepted, but I feel travel speed = combat speed unless we clearly see that is not the case (Like with Silver Surfer).

Thats actually almost never the case. Because reaction time and attack speed aren't relative to travel speed. Now, it is possible to mix travel speed up with fight speed, such as running or flying to the opponent and doing a strike attack, but thats usually only the first attack in a string of attacks following it up, which are going to be near-stationary.

 

[Jmanghan]

Okay, at this rate we're going in circles. Seriously, I've only been up for a few hours and I'm already feeling annoyed and drained to where I want to just least.
I consider travel speed = combat speed unless we clearly see otherwsie. You do not.

I consider Genesis being superior ot Bahamut Fury means he's faster. You do not.

I consider Zack to be FTL+. Guess what? You do not.

At this rate, I'm sure we'll never reach a conclusion unless we wait for other input.

You're basically just disagreeing with everyone's facts in favor of your own opinion without using logic to prove your arguments. Not to offend you, but your logic is flawed and illogical in itself, combat speed doesn't equal fight speed, it just doesn't.

 

[The_Everlasting]

What do you mean? It's my own opinion that flight speed can be the same as combat speed unless we see otherwise. I haven't exactly seen any proof of the contrary. However, like I said, I'm alreadt feeling rather tired and grouchy.

I actually just rewatched the fight with Bahamut Fury. Technically, BF can use energy projectiles in his fight, just like what he does during his Exaflare attack which gives him FTL+ speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry about that The Everlasting. I hope that you do not consider me to have been offensive. To be fair, plenty of other fictions in this wiki use the exact same standards as Final Fantasy for using to travel speed to estimate combat speed, so perhaps we should not single out FF, but rather make it a possible future project to be discussed at a later date?

 

[A6colute]

It's my own opinion that flight speed can be the same as combat speed unless we see otherwise.

You MUST prove your opinion FIRST.

 

[The_Everlasting]

It's okay, you're not being offensive. I'm just feeling rather grouchy at the moment. Early morning headaches and such.

That seems like a good idea, I'd say we should wait until early 2016, after the Attack Potency revisions finish.

However, did you see my previous comment about Bahamut Fury using energy projectiles? It may mean BF also has FTL+ attack speed, and Zack can dodge his attacks.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that avoiding energy beams is FTL, not necessarily FTL+, but othervise, good point.

 

[The_Everlasting]

My point did not involve the fact that he uses energy beams, but rather that they may be as fast as his Exaflare attack, which is what's FTL+. Not to mention we see that during the attack Bahamut Fury can precisely stop its flight and get its bearings really quickly, but I don't know if that means FTL+ reactions. If it does, it would probably still make Zack FTL+ since he can hit BF.

 

[Antvasima]

I can ask Lord Kavpeny to place it on the to-do list, but we have lots of other projects to do before that.

 

[Jmanghan]

What do you mean? It's my own opinion that flight speed can be the same as combat speed unless we see otherwise. I haven't exactly seen any proof of the contrary. However, like I said, I'm alreadt feeling rather tired and grouchy.
I actually just rewatched the fight with Bahamut Fury. Technically, BF can use energy projectiles in his fight, just like what he does during his Exaflare attack which gives him FTL+ speed.

No one in FF has FTL speed. In 11 seconds, someone would have traveled around the earth 82.5 times :/. I'm sorry, my friend, but with Bahamut Fury's current speed, they just aren't plain FTL.

 

[Antvasima]

@TE Okay.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Ant

True. It would take a while to do with all our other projects.

@Jmanghan

Actually, a few are. Look at Ultimecia's page. I don't see how that makes BF not FTL. He flies to another planet in 11 seconds, which does require FTL+ speed.

 

[Kevenkiller]

The Everlasting I will try to help you even if im really bad at this. In Kingdom hearts Cloud and Sephiroth are able to fight against Sora who is FTL+.[[1]] [[2]]

 

[The_Everlasting]

Kingdom Hearts isn't canon to Final Fantasy VII, sadly.

 

[Jmanghan]

@Ant
True. It would take a while to do with all our other projects.

@Jmanghan

Actually, a few are. Look at Ultimecia's page. I don't see how that makes BF not FTL. He flies to another planet in 11 seconds, which does require FTL+ speed.

No it doesn't, lol. 82.5 times around the globe, is faster then flying to another planet by a WHOLE lot. It's a non-factor when compared to Light.

 

[Kevenkiller]

Well at least I try, can I use Dissidia then

 

[Jmanghan]

The Everlasting I will try to help you even if im really bad at this. In Kingdom hearts Cloud and Sephiroth are able to fight against Sora who is FTL+.[[1]] [[2]]

You all need to prove how any of these characters are faster then light.

Bahamut Fury's beam exaflare might be FTL though, however, his flying speed isn't.

 

[The_Everlasting]

You don't seem to understand. The minimum distance between two planets is 38,000,000 kilometers, which takes light 126 seconds to cross. Bahamut Fury did it in 11.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

This whole thread reminds me of a certain somebody..

 

[Jmanghan]

The Everlasting I will try to help you even if im really bad at this. In Kingdom hearts Cloud and Sephiroth are able to fight against Sora who is FTL+.[[1]] [[2]]

You all need to prove how any of these characters are faster then light.
Bahamut Fury's beam exaflare might be FTL though, however, his flying speed isn't.

Also, thats if Bahamut Fury using Exaflare is canon to the story, on top of that, Zack could've just taken the blast, people in FF have survived worse.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Except Zack ca take the blast.

 

[Antvasima]

The Everlasting is probably correct about the required flying speed.

 

[Jmanghan]

You don't seem to understand. The minimum distance between two planets is 38,000,000 kilometers, which takes light 126 seconds to cross. Bahamut Fury did it in 11.

Eh, wow, you proved me wrong.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Ant

Yeah, as far as I'm aware, if planets were any closer, their gravitational fields would cause them to crash into each other.

 

[Jmanghan]

However, Zack's showings are still inconsistent.

Against an army or not, we see Zack run to the army... very... slowly.

 

[Jmanghan]

Except Zack ca take the blast.

As in, not have enough time to block it or dodge it.

 

[Antvasima]

I have asked Lord Kavpeny about it in private, and he seems to think that it is okay to make it a future topic of discussion, but we have other more important projects before that.

 

[Jmanghan]

As I was gonna say...

Against an army or not, Zack's speed in all of his fights are pitiful compared to what Bahamut Fury has done, the best Zack has done was at the beginning of the game with his rocket thruster things, that and blocking/dodging bullets, those are his best speed feats.

Also, you can't really block Exaflare, which further proves the point that Zack wasn't able to block or dodge it.

Granted, you can't really dodge any super move in the game, but still.

 

[Kevenkiller]

Well I have search for all the story battle in Dissida for Cloud you have Cloud vs Sephiroth ( That will not help ), Cloud vs Firion ( Firion is Massively Hypersonic+ so ... that will not help ), Cloud Vs Terra ( He lost and she not FTL so &%!$@ ) Cloud vs Feral Chaos ( I have no idea what Feral Chaos Speed is ). Im trying to find a Cloud vs Tidus or Cloud vs Jecht but I got nothing.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Except we see Bahamut Fury be able to use energy attacks, and BF himself is able to stop his flight at a precise spot and get his bearings pretty quickly. Don't know if that's FTL+ reactions, but if they are, Zack is able to hit BF.