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Sephiroth vs Evolto

What's stopping Evolto from just possessing his body?

He can scatter his genes everywhere and freely.

Evolto can also spam black holes, he literally does it as a sick joke in the show.

As for the Jenova cells corrupting thing, I dunno. I'll leave that up to you guys. I have no evidence of it working on Evolto but I can't say for sure if I can rule it out either.

Anyways, giving this to Evolto by a slight margin.

Great fight btw.
 
So, uh... apologies for another wall of text >_>;

@MagiSinbad: A bit off-topic, but I'd say it's the other way around if anything. While FFVII is more mainstream worldwide, in Japan Kamen Rider is a huge cultural icon, and has been so for decades. So FF taking bits or making allusions to KR seems more likely IMO as is not uncommon to see references and allusions in media. Not to mention, Mako and the Lifestream are, IIRC, respectively, an allusion to nuclear power, pollution, and an interpretation of the Gaia Theory, instead of something FFVII invented.

@Jag: Agreed, this is a surprisingly fun matchup.

On topic: Well, so far we're trying to see how well would each other's abilities would work on the other. Trying to summarize.

  • Evolto can use his cells to take control of other creatures. However, whether it works on Sephiroth is questionable as he can endure the Lifestream, where exposure to large amounts of Mako (the energy that flows in it) can mutate any creature, even turning machines into biological beings, or reviving dead creatures as new warped ones, and subject them to its control (also possible as the exposure to Mako destroys the mind of individuals due to an overload of information), which is what happened to the enemies in the Cave of Wonders in Crisis Core (which is detailed in mission briefings which is what I linked above). Greater exposure can lead to transformation into monsters and a complete change in the subject. Going further leads to the physical destruction, the body is disintegrated leaving the spirit behind (which contains mind, soul and self of a person) which is forcefully dismembered by the lifestream, leaving only their life force behind, erasing all traces of individuality. The Lifestream is stated to become stronger each time a living being dies and returns to it. Add to this that when Sephiroth first fell into the Lifestream, his body was destroyed and the only thing left were the Jenova Cells themselves, who endured the whole process and allowed him to evolve. Jenova has the power to mimic other species traits and abilities, as well as adapt to hazardous and new environments obtaining new abilities and enduring to keep her cycle going on.
  • In a similar way, Evolto can withstand with no issue the Nebula Gas from the Pandora's Box, is a highly vicious organism himself and the Nebula Gas, from what I am understanding, also has incredibly lethal effects on whatever it reaches, including warping them entirely (I don't have specific feats, but blame that on my own lack of knowledge about Kamen Rider Build). This also makes it highly unlikely that Evolto would succumb to Jenova, being a stalemate of sorts when it comes to who can conquer who when it comes to parasitic possession. If the Nebula Gas explicitely can break the mind and spirit of living being as well, then Evolto would also resist the contact with Sephiroth's Negative Lifestream body which carries tainted loads of information and negative emotions. This also means his mind is too strong for Sephiroth to control.
  • How strong is the intensity of the Lifestream vs the Pandora's Box is also rather impossible to determine as the upper levels for both aren't clear. I mean, from what Sinbad tells me, the Nebula Gas can merge two timelines together, but it requires special preparations and procedures, while the Lifestream has the memories, life and knowledge of every living thing (not just humans, animal, plants, everything that was alive) since life began, but that's also impossible to pinpoint.
  • It seems that it comes to who can destroy who in the end. Both have abilities that can destroy the other. Burakku Horruuu Bureeikkuu!! is the obvious one for Evolto, and while Sephiroth can endure powerful gravitational forces I don't think that would translate into taking a full blown black hole. A case could be made that Sephiroth can escape the Black Hole due to his high Speed and own Dimensional Travel for the Supernova. On the other hand, Sephiroth has to rely on abilities that can destroy Evolto's genetic material. Abilities like Flare or the Supernova (must be mentioned that the site doesn't consider the overly long International version, rather the much quicker Japanese Versio which reaches Pluto) could be decisive here, though Evolto's teleportation could help to avoid the attacks if he's quick enough.
  • That said, I do believe that Sephiroth's psychic abilities do give him an edge in the confrontation: Mind and Memory Reading allow him to know what he's facing and what is coming (not to mention Sephiroth can dig through countless memories and thoughts and quickly process everythinh taking what he needs, as the lifestream contains even the most minor memory of the living beings in it and Sephy could surf and pick what he wanted with no issue, as well as mind reading for crucial info is Jenova's MO), Illusions and Perception Manipulation can be used in conjuction with the above to create a good opening (such as feed Evolto false information on the coordinates he gets from the Wipeout Blade or make him believe on incorrect intensities for his Black Holes for the Master Black Hole), Clairvoyance mixed with Mind Perception can warn him that there are remains of Evolto around and where they are exaclty (at least up to a Planetary scale) and telekinesis can be used to restrict opponents right away.
 
The Pandora's Box actually suprass in sheer power the Lifestream. Killbus (Evolto's Brother) wants to recharge the Box in the New World to destroy the entire universe with a new Big Bang.

Maybe in the Psychic abilities of Sephiroth give him an edge, but Evolto has it in sheer power. He can use the power of his Other phases using the respective Evolbottle in his Transtream Gun (EX: With the Rabbit Evolbottle, he gains a speed boost so big that he blitz Build Genius who previously fight him at the same time) and he can actually gets stronger and stronger in the middle of the Battle like Banjo, thanks that he gains emotions that allow him to raise even more his Hazard Level.

Like you say, it is a battle of "Who lands the finish hit first"
 
A reminder. AP and hax are not the same. The Pandora Box being able to merge two timelines is tangential to its mind manip or other stuff, and possession or anything obviously wouldn't scale to it.

And as far as I am aware, unless they need a CRT, this Evolto only scales to Tier 4.
 
@Xross: Yeah, Sinbad mentioned it as well, as well as the power to break boundaries between timelines. Though, if I understood correctly to reach such level of power preparations are required so it can't be really applied to the match itself. Though I don't disagree with the notion, as big as the Lifestream is it's certainly nowhere near universal.

That's precisely why I think Sephiroth's Jenova Abilities are such an important advantage, they essentially give him Sephiroth prior information to know everything Evolto can do. Even if Evolto isn't actively thinking about one of his particular abilities, Sephiroth is inspecting his memories and finding out about it, so, for example, he will know in advance about the Rabbit Evolbottle and that it will make Evolto too fast for him to handle so he will resort to something like Stop to freeze time or DeSpell precisely timed to neutralize the effect. While is not a passive ability, after merging with Jenova, Sephiroth has this ability always active.
 
For the first point, Killbus only needs to rechange the Box to do the Big Bang. Not prior preparation, just a changed Box. What needs preparation is the merge of worlds.

And for the second, ok i see it. But that doesn't stop his rising Hazard Level.

Also, Evolt can inject Nebula Gas to Sephiroth using the Steam Blade's Devil Stream Attack. And that would have nasty effect on Sephiroth. How the mutation of the Nebula Gas works is that the exposed person suffer Accelareted Cell Division, ending becoming a Smash. If his a overdosis, the person with dissapear. Literally dissapear.

Even people with high Hazard Level can died of this, examples being the Hokuto Three Crows, Grease and Gentoku.
 
@Tarta lol, pretty sure KR Build came after (2018), so it's pretty much already got inspired by many other works already :p i means, even KR Gaim is influenced by Madoka Magica. FFVII sound interesting, may pick up the Remake once it's out.

And yes, The Nebula Gas has shown the power to affect the spirit as well. The queen of Mar, who only exist as a spirit inside another young girl's body also get affected by it, despite the fact that the queen's Hazard level is really high herself to the point she can manipulate the Pandora Box to some extend, but being exposed to the higher level Nebula Gas causes her goes insane and attack her comrades.

Another feat for Nebula Gas's soul manipulation is when Sento transfer the queen's spirit into Banjo (Who just has enough hazard level to endure the alteration) And the ritual only uses a portion of Pandora Box's power to merges the 2 timelines together. It was shown in the movie that if it's doesnt done right, it would result a collision between 2 timelines and cause them both to be destroyed.


Wait, if Sephiroth has Time Stop and can combo it with Clairvoyance, wouldnt the fight already finish before it can begin ??? If that's the case then Sephiroth has one vote from me.

@Lancelot Actually, there are reason why we brought up the Low 2-C part. The Nebula Gas had shown in the show that can corrupt and mutates any creature that dont have enough hazard level to endures it, and it was shown that the more quantity the Nebula Gas is, the higher Hazard level it become. Even the Queen of Mar whose hazard level is really high herself that she could manipulate Pandora box to an extend, cant resist having her mind altered when exposed to the higher hazard level And given that Nebula Gas is spawn from Pandora Box's energy, which Pandora Box has enough to crush entire universe (stated by Killbus in the sequel movie), you could say the entirety of Pandora Box's mind altering power is tremendously high from this likely-infinite energies. Evolt was able to absorb all these energies and still perfectly sane should be able to us how powerful is his mind resistance is.
 
Oh no, I got that part, what I meant is that the best you can say is "is higher". Without evidence of such, we can't place a correlation between AP and Hax, so we only know a full and concentrated amount would be higher, but an exact amount can't be placed. Is like Alex Mercer, we know he adds the AP of people he absorbs to his power, but we can't say for sure he absorbs their full AP (like having the AP of 1000 people after absorbing 1000 people), so we can only say it got higher. Does the gas have any feats affecting numerous people at once? The highest, the better.
 
Nope, it doesnt has any feat like that, probally because Namba Corporation is extremely cautious to choose their victim to mutates into a Smash.

If you require such feat then i guess it cant helped then.
 
It isn't required, but it helps much better to set an actual number that it can scale to. Even affecting everything in a certain range works, sort of.

If not, then we can only say it'd higher than someone that has baseline resistance.
 
Magi is correct. Namba Corporation, the guys doing the whole Nebula Gas Smash thing, is extremely selective on who they turn into smashes since while evil, they still have a public image to uphold and is still liable to just get nuked by other nations if they do anything overtly evil or bad. Turning your citizens into Smashes en masse is a pretty terrible idea if you're trying to make your own nation.
 
Akreious said:
Magi is correct. Namba Corporation, the guys doing the whole Nebula Gas Smash thing, is extremely selective on who they turn into smashes since while evil, they still have a public image to uphold and is still liable to just get nuked by other nations if they do anything overtly evil or bad. Turning your citizens into Smashes en masse is a pretty terrible idea if you're trying to make your own nation.
Click to expand...
bruh, it's not like that nation gonna exist for long anyway lulz

Anyway, my vote is to Sephiroth via Time Stop combo with Mind Reading and Clairvoyance.
 
Sephiroth FRAs above, unless there's something about those skills that would make this hard, though Tarta would be the one to know that.

Is fun seeing all these Kamen matches and learning more about them that way.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
How does memory manip help?
Click to expand...
None of Sephiroth's mind manip. resistances seem to deal with Memory Erasure I don't think. The one that specifically deals in memory is resisting overloading from the Lifestream, while having his mind ingrained into your spirit energy doesn't really help when your neurons just got screwed.
 
@Sinbad: Kamen Rider Build... 2018... Hmmm... Touché, my good man. < Gaim was written by Gen Urobochi wasn't it? Same person behind Madoka Magica, Toei must have told him "Look pal, this is aimed at kids after all, so please measure the darkness here"

By all means I say give it a shot if you have the time. Everything is looking great for the Remake, I am personally crossing my fingers and being cautiously optimistic, but trusting they can pull this off.

@Lancelot: Agreed, Kamen Rider is such a darn good franchise and it's fascinating to see what new spin in themes, setting, powers and motives will bring each new entry every year, at least from my noob-ish point of view >_>. Same with Super Sentai.

On topic: Well, yes, surprinsingly. Sephiroth has many abilities to get the upper hand in a fight without resorting to simply overwhelming his opponent. In the original game most of his plan relied on using his abilities to manipulate and control others to get them where he wanted and Jenova destroys civilizations by tricking their inhabitants by seeding discord and chaos rather than nuking them. In the final battle, Sephiroth uses a lot, a lot of status ailments and debuffs (with ocassional buffs on himself and dispellings on the party's buffs) to gain the upper hand and the reason why he stopped using his Jenova abilities against the party is because growing strong enough to escape Sephiroth's influence and gaining the determination to endure the Lifestream is a major part of the final arc of the story and the grand closure to Cloud's character arc in the original game.

@Akreious: Sephiroth does list Memory Manipulation in his resistances, though, and it elaborates how it got stronger as the story went on. Essentially, he kept his memories when the Lifestream disintegrated his whole physical body. And when he got defeated in FFVII, he later got his very spirit destroyed by Cloud and the Lifestream kept trying to erode his memories when his soul barely came back from that, yet he withstood that as well. He did have to resort to mutilate his memories himself, but it was due to the extremes circunstances of having to survive from the death of his very essence while the Planet was essentially erasing his individuality. Not to mention that sacrificing his memories created a core of sorts that made his will stronger than ever and said core had a focus of Sephiroth's own choice to keep going after his objectives.
 
"Sephiroth does list Memory Manipulation in his resistances, though, and it elaborates how it got stronger as the story went on. Essentially, he kept his memories when the Lifestream disintegrated his whole physical body. And when he got defeated in FFVII, he later got his very spirit destroyed by Cloud and the Lifestream kept trying to erode his memories when his soul barely came back from that, yet he withstood that as well. He did have to resort to mutilate his memories himself, but it was due to the extremes circunstances of having to survive from the death of his very essence while the Planet was essentially erasing his individuality. "

First point doesn't even count as Memory Manipulation. It's literally just disintegration of the physical body. The second one where the Lifestream attempted to erode his spirit (and therefore memory) requires WAAAAAY more context. Your screenshot notes that the Lifestream is attempting to erode his spirit, and then it goes onto to explicitly state he wasn't in the stream's current yet (The thing that'd... actually absorb your memories and experiences?).

"Not to mention that sacrificing his memories created a core of sorts that made his will stronger than ever and said core had a focus of Sephiroth's own choice to keep going after his objectives."

Sort of moot here since Sephiroth wouldn't be sacrificing anything as Evolt would likely just total memory-wipe instead? You actually have to have some part of you left to hold onto a core to stay "afloat" to say.
 
@Akreious: What I was pointing out is that despite losing his entire body, including his brain and nervous system altogether, and having the Lifestream actively try to erode and absorb his memories after that he still managed to keep them intact and stay within the Lifestream (this is after he resisted the Spirit Energy/Mako warping his Biology or, later, turning him into a monster, as well). Apologies if I didn't explain myself well. And as Lancelot mentions, Sephiroth in Advent Children is just a bunch of random Jenova remains anchoring his spirit to the mortal world, he no longer has a proper biology.

There seems to be a misunderstanding, you can be within the Lifestream without being part of the Lifestream itself, or put in another way, be there but avoid being dragged into the Planet's System, which erases all traces of individuality from a spirit before adding it to the stream to make it part of the Lifestream itself. The reason why Sephiroth became such a powerful being is because he was a parasitic presence with such as strong will and spirit that the Planet never could strip from his individuality nor reabsorb in the current of Spirit Energy, rather Sephiroth kept travelling it absorbing knowledge and power and after FFVII proper he began to taint it.

Well, yes and no. The core needs memories to be created and would indeed be impossible to do if Sephiroth loses all his memories. However, he did manage to create it while he was in the process of being diffused altogether by the Lifestream and his individuality became strong enough that that process wasn't enough to affect him anymore thanks to the newly created core. And though a bit more vague and not applicable here, Sephiroth can recover the memories he discarded by coming across memories from himself in others (and Evolto and Sephiroth don't know each other in this match's context).
 
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