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Semi-Perfect Cell Self-Destruction

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I prefer the former. Goku was 100% healthy for eating a senzu bean, so the explosion should fully scale to him cuz it instantly killed him.
 
Goku never took a senzu bean after his match with Cell, he gave it to Cell so he could use his full strength against Gohan. In the Manga, it was still stated he was struggling due to using up most of his strength against Perfect Cell. And this was despite him being implied to be significantly stronger than everyone else besides Gohan at the time. But now, even Cell Jr who was stated to be roughly equal to Vegeta's or Trunk's Super Saiyan forms was overpowering him. Though, I agree that "Him becoming weaker than the human characters" is hyperbolic. I'm fine with "Higher with self destruction", but I don't think we can scale from to Goku at his peak.

Plus, it was implied Goku outright wanted to die, so he may have purposely lowered his defenses for that instance on top of being even more exhausted.
 
Well. If we find it hard to believe that Goku actually took a senzu bean before he was killed in the manga. I also guess that it is fine for Cell to get the "Higher with self-destruction" rating.
 
They still had Senzu beams for everyone after Goku gave Cell one, hell it's likely that because of that Gohan didn't have one for the final battle.

I even doubt Goku was planning to die.
 
(I am using the Latin American dub which is truthful to the original. Although this on from YouTube has a slight higher voice audio to avoid copyright)

First:

On Chapter 408, we see Gohan giving the senzu bean bag to Trunks. Gohan says "Give this to everyone" which includes Goku.

Second:

Trunks in the manga, gave Senzu to krillin but off panel but on the anime they show it. Then, here which the manga shows Krillin in awe.

Trunks says exactly what the manga said exempt Toei change the dialog to "everyone" instead of mentioning Krillin on the manga.

Toei added more scene's to the anime, showing Trunks giving the Senzu Beans to everyone in the anime just to length the episode.

All this happen in the manga but off panel but it was mentioned in the manga therefore is canon.

Third:

Krillin say "We use them all up" responding to Piccolo about the Senzu Beans.


Conclusion:

All this was mentioned in the manga but happen off panel. Toei simply added more scenes to increase the length of the episode.

Again, All this happen in the manga but off panel but it was mentioned in the manga therefore is canon.

If this does not get accepted then Super Perfect Cell needs to get downgraded.

Also, we know Self-Destruction can go beyond what their AP can output. Example: Android 17.

At least High 4-C via Self-Destruction
 
What do other staff members here think about the above information? Which solution should we go with?
 
Goku literally already gave his senzu bean to Cell at the very beginning; long before the Cell Jrs appeared and before everyone else fought this still carrying their senzu beans. It happened right before it was Gohan's turn to fight Cell, so it still looks like Goku was the only one who didn't use a senzu bean. I do agree exploding going beyond their own tiers is very common. I'd prefer to hear from AKM Sama, but I still think higher with self destruction still makes the most sense.
 
They only had 8 Senzu Beans for each Z-fighter. Goku, Trunks, Piccolo, Krillin, Yamcha, Vegeta, and Tien ate one apart from Gohan that is the only fighter that did not eat one. Goku gave Cell a Senzu which is first senzu he gave to. In total of 8.

Also, it would not make sense to not give a Senzu Bean to Son Goku who is the second strongest Z-fighter at that time. Moreover, we have proof that Gohan said to Trunks to give Senzu Beans to everyone in the manga.

This is literally Occam's Razor.

Akira Toriyama wrote in the manga but did not added panel for the action of Trunks giving the Senzu Bean to everyone exempt Krillin. Toei Animation added the scenes of the action of Trunks giving the Senzu Bean to everyone.

DB Manga creator: Akira Toriyama >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vs Battle Wiki

Man... Dragon Ball gets downplay a lot compare to other CRT that I have seen....
 
ProudLearner said:
They only had 8 Senzu Beans for each Z-fighter.
Click to expand...
Were the number of senzu beans shown to be 8 in the manga? Not that it makes or breaks the point, I am just curious.

I think what ProudLearner said makes sense, even after eating the bean, Krillin also had scratches/dirt so Goku having them is not a big deal imo. Plus, Goku looked in a lot better condition after Trunks finished giving everybody a senzu. It's not far-fetched to believe he did give Goku one off-panel. So I am fine with the upgrade.

ProudLearner said:
Man... Dragon Ball gets downplay a lot compare to other CRT that I have seen....
Click to expand...
You can ask this question to a lot of other popular franchises and they will say that their verse are downplayed more. This isn't even a major upgrade. Stop thinking that just because people are questioning and discussing the points of the upgrade, and not just instantly agreeing with it, that they are intentionally downplaying. I am getting tired of this attitude, in literally every CRT I am in for whatever verse.
 
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What AKM has accepted can probably be applied then.

And I agree with him about the paranoid attitudes.
 
AKM sama said:
Were the number of senzu beans shown to be 8 in the manga? Not that it makes or breaks the point, I am just curious.
Click to expand...
It is simply a deduction about having 8 since any less would not be enough to heal all Z-fighters or having more would contradict what Krillin said to Piccolo.
AKM sama said:
You can ask this question to a lot of other popular franchises and they will say that their verse are downplayed more. This isn't even a major upgrade. Stop thinking that just because people are questioning and discussing the points of the upgrade, and not just instantly agreeing with it, that they are intentionally downplaying. I am getting tired of this attitude, in literally every CRT I am in for whatever verse.
Click to expand...
Fair enough but I still think there is a dogma when it comes to Dragon Ball getting upgrades for example: Moon Level, Infinite Speed, Immeasurable Speed, AP, Precognition, Resistance scaling, etc.....
 
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Just a note that we are very strict about infinite and immeasurable speed in general nowadays, and Dragon Ball is still one of my favourite franchises. More staff members simply know Dragon Ball well, so it is easier for us to catch errors and exagerations for the series.
 
Yeah, Infinite and Immeasurable speed are both really bad examples tbh; we heightened restrictions wiki wide. But I pretty much agree very much on the other parts; especially people attempting to downplay 4-B Cell, or 3-A base Goku in Super.

And I also do too get really annoyed when no one ever shuts up about Dragon Ball on every other verse thread that isn't Dragon Ball or ignore how in our faces Dragon Ball actually is compared to all those other verses; it has a linear PL system where Ki Control is the very thing proving why everyone doesn't just blow up planets every time they punch. Where as others wanted to upgrade verses with it's relatively down to Earth lore and the proposal is upgrading a multitude of foot soldier type characters based on step one, someone allegedly tanked a nuclear explosion, step two the protagonist is consistently on par those getting killed by shotguns and hand grenades; step three; "All handheld firearms even pistols are nuke tier" is their next proposal. But this is all derailment.

I do still agree with AKM Sama that the multitude of attitudes that "staff intentionally downplay every verse out there" needs to stop. But back on topic, if it's considered Goku may have taken a Senzu Bean after the fight with the Cell Jrs, I suppose the proposal is fine to have At least High 4-C via self destruction. And if anything; Goku would have gotten a zenkai boost and be even higher degrees into High 4-C.
 
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