Self-evident intelligence revisions thread

[Nonynho]

"At least Genius" seems safer than "Extraordinary Genius", as it is not self-evident enough for the second option.

Ain't the fact that he did all what i said while having years of poor nutrition, sleep and etc not be enough for the qualification? That is the root of my argument

 

[Voidnether]

Ain't the fact that he did all what i said while having years of poor nutrition, sleep and etc not be enough for the qualification? That is the root of my argument

I personally think this is just his stamina being superhuman so it doesn't affect his overall intelligence and how he thinks, but I'm not really knowledgeable on the topic so

"At least Genius" seems safer than "Extraordinary Genius", as it is not self-evident enough for the second option.

Based on the justifications provided in this profile, would you agree that it's just At least Gifted, possibly Genius? I don't see anything that would make it Extraordinary Genius here

Osamu Dazai

Lazy and obsessed with trying to commit suicide, Osamu Dazai has a mysterious past and unknown intentions that he doesn't reveal unless he wants to. Despite his eccentricities, he's Atsushi's closest friend and mentor in the Armed Detective Agency, but has connections with the very organization...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Antvasima]

Ain't the fact that he did all what i said while having years of poor nutrition, sleep and etc not be enough for the qualification? That is the root of my argument

It seems too uncertain. My apologies.

Based on the justifications provided in this profile, would you agree that it's just At least Gifted, possibly Genius? I don't see anything that would make it Extraordinary Genius here

Osamu Dazai

Lazy and obsessed with trying to commit suicide, Osamu Dazai has a mysterious past and unknown intentions that he doesn't reveal unless he wants to. Despite his eccentricities, he's Atsushi's closest friend and mentor in the Armed Detective Agency, but has connections with the very organization...

vsbattles.fandom.com

"At least Gifted, likely Genius" seems to fit better, yes.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So this was once previously rejected iirc for being "imaginary" (as in fictional) but later our translators confirmed it's imaginary as in Imaginary Number Space (which is strictly as real and physical as normal space but extending on a different axes).

Spoiler: Great Sage

Great Sage can analyze Infinite Prison partially almost instantly. But complete analyses requires a few hundred years:

So is this enough for Supergenius intelligence (processing infinite information (infinite sized structure) in finite time)?

And as for Rapahel:
Rapahel (evolved Great Sage)'s analyzing speed increased so much that it finished the analyses of Infinite Prison/Unlimited Imprisonment in a few days.

Supergenius for both, or just Rapahel?

I think that both likely qualify.

So this was the LN version, and I wanted to do the same for the web novel continuity since this part remains exactly the same, and so that I could implement them both simultaneously.

Here are the scans

Spoiler: Great Sage

本来、勇者のユニークスキル『無限牢獄』は、対象を永遠の時間、無限の虚数空間に封じ込めるスキルであり、現実世界への干渉を許す程甘い能力ではないのだそうだ。
Originally, the hero's unique skill,『Infinite Prison』was a skill that confined/traps/seals the target in an infinite imaginary number space for eternity, and it was not a weak ability that allowed it to interfere with the real world.
Source

Though it does seem strange that the only thing he can do is to communicate telepathically…

It’s not like the skill weakens with time, after all. Being able to even recognize the present and converse with other creatures all seem like example of interference. What’s unusual is Veldora himself here…
Chapter 4

(This line is the exact same in both LN and WN, kanji to kanji, thus why I'm using the translation for the LN version as getting both translated separately would be redundant).

As I said that, I touched Veldora. And,

«Attempting to predate unique skill [Endless Prison] via unique skill [Predation]… failure»

As expected, a hero’s seal is not going to be this easy. For but a second, interference with the hero’s skill released a blinding light, but then it returned to normal. Seems like for a brief moment, a seam opened in this endless prison. But it quickly restored itself. And anyways, “Since it’s also a unique skill, something’ll happen” type of thing will only lead to trouble. Isn’t there anything I can do?

What to do…

«Solution. Unique skill [Endless Prison] has been partly analyzed. I shall present the escape method. It is impossible for flesh to escape. Physical damage wise, the chance of destroying the prison is 0%. With regards to the imaginary number space escape method–the analysis proved impossible. Analysis in identical situation–imprisonment in an [Endless Prison] is necessary for analysis. Therefore, currently this is impossible. The chance of releasing a spiritual body is 1%. Should one prepare a host for the spirit ahead of time, and move there in the process, the success rate increases to 3%. At the moment, this process is similar to reincarnation. Should the affinity with the host be poor, memories and skills will all be reset. End of the report on escape methods»
Chapter 4

(Nope! 『Infinite Prison』 did take a while, though. Had my 『Great Sage』 skill not evolved, it’d take another hundred years.)

(Well, my unique skill 『Investigator』 has also been analyzing
the prison. Sadly, as it was sealed inside, I couldn’t send 『Great Sage』 the report. How absurdly strong it was, 『Infinite Prison』 ! As expected of a hero. By the way, what’s with the skills evolving?)
Chapter 74

So basically Great Sage had partially analyzed the infinite Imaginary Number space in at best a few seconds, and would have fully decoded it in a hundred years.

As for Raphael:

Spoiler: Raphael

Wouldn’t Resurrection Festival work? My words decided『Tempest Resurrection Festival』 as its official name. We are planning on celebrating it every year. And now, two days have passed since it ended…

There are a few problems that are giving me a headache. No,
I’m being serious this time.
Chapter 73

I can’t explain it in words very well… when I used it, time seemed to stop.
While intending to ask Raphael about each skill,

«Announcement. As ordered, 『Infinite Prison』 has been analyzed. Will you release Individual: Veldora? [YES]/[NO]»

What an announcement it so casually made!

It was so sudden, that I couldn’t respond…

But… finally!

It has taken a year, but I can finally keep my promise. All that’s left is… procuring a spirit medium for him. The thought of testing the skills has completely fled my mind.

I release you, Veldora!
And, I chose [YES]!
Chapter 73

Summary: Great Sage analyzed for for an year (which is way to small compared to it's set time of completion) and then it evolved, and two days after evolution, it finished fully analyzing Infinite Prison (infinite Imaginary Number Space).

I've bolded the important parts in case the scans seem big.

It's pretty much 99% identical to the LN version that got accepted a few weeks prior, so it shouldn't be too hard

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That also seems fine then.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Okay. That also seems fine then.

I've applied it to the web novel version

Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel)

Rimuru Tempest (リムル＝テンペスト, Rimuru Tenpesuto?), formerly known as Satoru Mikami (三上みかみ 悟さとる, Mikami Satoru?), is the main protagonist of Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken. He is the founder and King of the Monster Country. Also known as the "Tempest of the Great Jura Forest," he is regarded as one...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I also reworded the description. Well mostly just adding scans and rewording already existing statements that were really old. There were a few feats that I could not find any or sufficient scans of in the entire WN so I removed them. Let me know if any of this is not allowed or if I did anything wrong

You can compare the difference here:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Rimuru_Tempest_(Web_Novel)?diff=prev&oldid=9324542

I think the new one looks far better compared to the old deserted description lacking scans almost completely.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

What intelligence rating can be given to Momo?

Momo Belia Deviluke

Momo Belia Deviluke (モモ・ベリア・デビルーク) is Nana's twin and the younger sister to Lala. She is sometimes referred to as the "Third Princess of Deviluke" since she is the youngest of the three princesses. In To Love-Ru, she used to be seen with Nana all the time, but in To Love-Ru Darkness, they are...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Great intellect and an aptitude with Devilukean technology and especial knowledgeable with the biology of most plant-life in the galaxy. She was able to finish the programming of her sister's video game Trouble Quest in under a week, programming a cyber safari for Nana and generating an invisible barrier. Momo's ability to understand plant life allows her to become an expert botanist. She understands the biology and chemistry of most plant life in the galaxy, and the abilities and effects of their spores, pollens, and other characteristics. She maintains her interplanetary garden, which she can access through her d-dial phone to call any of her plants and use their abilities for varying purposes, including combat.

 

[Nonynho]

Spider-Man (Marvel Comics)

Peter Benjamin Parker, more well-known as Spider-Man, was once just a nerdy teenager in High School. But after he was bitten by a radioactive spider at a science exhibition, he gained the proportionate strength, speed, and agility of a spider alongside a special precognitive ability known as the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Question: Why ain't the statements that he rivals Reed (and by extension Doom), Tony and is superior to Hank Pym enough to say Spidey's a Supergenius?

really think we should at minimum get him the same as Pym (below), but i'd like to debate him being full-on SG

At least Extraordinary Genius, likely Supergenius

 

[Antvasima]

What intelligence rating can be given to Momo?

Momo Belia Deviluke

Momo Belia Deviluke (モモ・ベリア・デビルーク) is Nana's twin and the younger sister to Lala. She is sometimes referred to as the "Third Princess of Deviluke" since she is the youngest of the three princesses. In To Love-Ru, she used to be seen with Nana all the time, but in To Love-Ru Darkness, they are...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Great intellect and an aptitude with Devilukean technology and especial knowledgeable with the biology of most plant-life in the galaxy. She was able to finish the programming of her sister's video game Trouble Quest in under a week, programming a cyber safari for Nana and generating an invisible barrier. Momo's ability to understand plant life allows her to become an expert botanist. She understands the biology and chemistry of most plant life in the galaxy, and the abilities and effects of their spores, pollens, and other characteristics. She maintains her interplanetary garden, which she can access through her d-dial phone to call any of her plants and use their abilities for varying purposes, including combat.

Extraordinary Genius.

 

[Antvasima]

Spider-Man (Marvel Comics)

Peter Benjamin Parker, more well-known as Spider-Man, was once just a nerdy teenager in High School. But after he was bitten by a radioactive spider at a science exhibition, he gained the proportionate strength, speed, and agility of a spider alongside a special precognitive ability known as the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Question: Why ain't the statements that he rivals Reed (and by extension Doom), Tony and is superior to Hank Pym enough to say Spidey's a Supergenius?

really think we should at minimum get him the same as Pym (below), but i'd like to debate him being full-on SG

Those statements are extreme hyperbole. He doesn't have feats anywhere near their range. We should probably remove them from his page as they are misleading.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose giving Balancer a proper rating would be good.

As first evidence, they can control magic in a fashion too complex for humans to handle.

A few more interesting points are raised during a Ping-Pong match between them and the christian god. See the bolded parts for the most interesting bits:

In summary:
Even during the Earth Age, about a thousand years ago, Balancer already had processing power superior to the human brain.
Doing the physical calculations for ping-pong in real-time is easy for them even when restricted to a fraction of their full processing power.
Balancer created the gods by extracting them from the concept laws, which demonstrates conceptual technology (although it's impossible to say how much of that already existed - in principle Balancer itself is the culmination of humanity's technology)
Can calculate out other people's thoughts with a high certainty, but not perfectly due to true free will. Ultimately, they instead simply calculate out countermeasures to all possible and impossible options, as that's easier than determining thoughts.
Considers Shogi (japanese chess) an easy game which can be thought through (i.e. solved) quickly.

In addition to that, they have the awareness to handle the data of knowing everything that is going on in the Japan-sized pocket dimension, down to every last breath.

Also has a database with information, as one would expect from an AI.

And, given that he made a convincingly real pocket dimension version of 1990 Japan, that Database should have a wide raneg of information.


I think overall that's just enough to be considered an extraordinary genius by human standards.

@DontTalkDT

That seems perfectly fine to me.

 

[Nonynho]

Those statements are extreme hyperbole. He doesn't have feats anywhere near their range.

Even statements by themselves, like Reed stating an area where he's superior and Pym clearly stating that Spidey's superior to him?
I don't see we reasonably getting out of this debate without putting Spidey at the same rank as Pym, but i think you gotta detail more about why is he in a realm below those others

 

[Antvasima]

His inventions and intelligence feats are nowhere near the enormous scale of Hank Pym, especially during the latter's scientist supreme era. Marvel Comics writers are enormously inconsistent and usually not very well-informed about the character capabilities and extremely contradict each other all the time. They usually just hype up whichever character that they like best without any logic behind it.

We have to evaluate the characters by their feats in terms of intelligence, and Peter has never demonstrated literally infinite intelligence, the ability to warp reality in virtually any way he wishes up to a literally infinite scale with his inventions, or similar. Supergenius is an enormous exaggeration for him. None of his opponents would ever be anywhere near a challenge for him if he was that formidable.

My apologies, but this is not up for discussion.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Requirements for Supergenius is being able to mentally comprehend infinite amounts of information and data to use to their advantages. I do not think Spider-Man has any feats on that level.

 

[Antvasima]

It is one of the requirements, yes, but not the only one.

 

[Nonynho]

Alright, fair enough. Though i now am favorable of this comparison to Pym being removed, since this is motivated by an author's inconsistency and we have a bunch of rules to follow for powerscaling this Verse to avoid this kind of stuff getting through

 

[Antvasima]

Alright, fair enough. Though i now am favorable of this comparison to Pym being removed, since this is motivated by an author's inconsistency and we have a bunch of rules to follow for powerscaling this Verse to avoid this kind of stuff getting through

Yes, I also think that all instances of comparing Spider-Man with Pym, Richards, Doom, Stark, or similar should be removed from his page, to avoid inaccurate misunderstandings.

 

[Nonynho]

Yes, I also think that all instances of comparing Spider-Man with Pym, Richards, Doom, Stark, or similar should be removed from his page, to avoid inaccurate misunderstandings.

I don't agree fully
I agree that we should just remove the part where Pym calls him superior intelligence-wise, since that leaves to the innacuracy that justified me coming here, the others felt like a supporting argument for the SG rating i proposed and 100% are supporting statements for his EG rating, not leading to any misleading and enriching the section.

has made Hank Pym consider him as an intellectual superior

But this is 100% misleading

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will remove that then.

Edit: I have done so.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

SSB Pichu is still at Above Average Intelligence despite his peers being either Gifted or Genius.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

SSB Pichu is still at Above Average Intelligence despite his peers being either Gifted or Genius.

It doesn't look like Pikachu has any substance to justify the Genius rating, so I think he should be downgraded to Gifted at best.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't think that we can accurately guess intelligence levels only from how well combatants perform in a fighting game, which is mostly due to how well different players handle them anyway. We should probably give all the Super Smash Bros fighters with no further known information in this area unknown intelligence statistics.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

So can Pichu be updated?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Smash Brothers character in general, who do not have any further official information or feats for their intelligence, should probably get an "Unknown" ststistic in that area, as we do not base intelligence on player game fighting skills.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

TBH, regarding "player" characters, I would prefer if they didn't have an intelligence section at all, at least not any battle tactics, since their actions (battle tactics) are solely reliant on the "player", so for example Steve or Terrianian.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, they are required to have an intelligence section to follow our standard formatting, but in cases where no official information about their intelligence exists, it should be listed as unknown.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

All characters should at bare minimum be able to complete the game modes at all, like All Star mode and Century Smash.

 

[Antvasima]

Pure fighting skills are hard to translate directly to intelligence statistics, especially in a fighting ame controlled by players.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

In Smash Bros case, there are referenced backstories and perhaps respective intelligence feats/ratings from their original works could be carried over. But they obviously should not cross scale.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Pikachu's page is actually pretty much the gold standard for Smash Bros character intelligence with no cross-scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that the justifications for Shash Bros Pikachu being a genius seem at all reliable.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Pikachu_(Super_Smash_Bros.)

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I do not think that the justifications for Shash Bros Pikachu being a genius seem at all reliable.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Pikachu_(Super_Smash_Bros.)

…Why? We have shit like Minecraft Steve being able to clear Trial Chambers consistently and Hyrule Warriors characters being able to slaughter thousands of enemies per fight.

 

[Antvasima]

One error does not excuse another, and the justifications for intelligence are very lacking in reliability.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

One error does not excuse another, and the justifications for intelligence are very lacking in reliability.

Do you think all of them would just canonically fail all the special modes and everything? One of the special modes is literally taking orders from Master Hand and Crazy Hand, which they genuinely wouldn’t care at all about creating the Smash Bros gatherings in the first place if the characters were unable to perform.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Gifted is a fine rating for someone who is a "Jack of all trades military veteran" but no more than that. Given Sean used whataboutisms as his main backbones, the two he listed are gifted via those things he listed. In the case of Steve, we cannot interpret "Standard tactics" but we do know he is naturally capable of crafting his own swords, bows, armor, and mining tools, and he can also craft boats, but none of those exceed Gifted. But its the crafting and construction is where he gets the ratings and not combat stuff or player interface. Link's intelligence rating in Hyrule Warriors comes from being comparable to other Links who are reportedly gifted archeologists and puzzle solvers as well as military tacticians; not solely from being masters of swords and bows.

As far Intelligence ratings of Pokemon characters, I believe lots of them have outdated formats. We no long give separate ratings that are "Solely for combat intelligence" beyond a simple "Higher" statements. And Pikachu from canon profiles have below average as their main intelligence rating; though I think this was before we added "High Animalistic" which sounds more fitting for various Pokemon.

 

[Antvasima]

Gifted is a fine rating for someone who is a "Jack of all trades military veteran" but no more than that.

Above Average seems more likely to be the base for that.

Given Sean used whataboutisms as his main backbones, the two he listed are gifted via those things he listed.

Just being able to fight lots of enemies in a row is not something we rate intelligence from anymore, or were able to reliable gauge from in the first place.

In the case of Steve, we cannot interpret "Standard tactics" but we do know he is naturally capable of crafting his own swords, bows, armor, and mining tools, and he can also craft boats, but none of those exceed Gifted. But its the crafting and construction is where he gets the ratings and not combat stuff or player interface.

Yes.

Link's intelligence rating in Hyrule Warriors comes from being comparable to other Links who are reportedly gifted archeologists and puzzle solvers as well as military tacticians; not solely from being masters of swords and bows.

Okay.

As far Intelligence ratings of Pokemon characters, I believe lots of them have outdated formats. We no long give separate ratings that are "Solely for combat intelligence" beyond a simple "Higher" statements.

Well, we don't even use "higher". We just write down their capabilities, as it is too hard to gauge from fighting skills alone.

And Pikachu from canon profiles have below average as their main intelligence rating; though I think this was before we added "High Animalistic" which sounds more fitting for various Pokemon.

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Alright, I'll just leave Pichu's Intelligence as is.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, I think that a lot of Smash Bros characters seem to have misleading intelligence statistics purely based on player game fighting skills, and as such should get unknown intelligence ratings instead.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I think that both likely qualify.

I have applied the changes and updated the ratings to Supergenius. Additionally, I've also added scans to the deserted lines of text and added more feats to fill in lacking areas.

Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel)

Rimuru Tempest (リムル＝テンペスト, Rimuru Tenpesuto?), formerly known as Satoru Mikami (三上みかみ悟さとる, Mikami Satoru?), is the main protagonist of Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken. He is an Otherworlder reincarnated as a slime, and the sworn friend of the Storm Dragon Veldora Tempest. He is the founder and...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I personally think it looks far better and more explanatory as compared to before, but let me know if there are any problems.

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably fine.