Sekiro Speed Downgrade

[Konaguna]

This profile ain't been on for even a week and it already wrong, let's see why.

The MHS+ rating is wrong for two reasons I'll go through right now.

1) Validity

I've beaten sekiro about 5 times already and I know well that there are only two MHS feats that are being taken into consideration now, however both of them are wrong.

Feat 1) Lightning Reflection

I'm assuming it is seen as reacting to, catching lightning, and releasing it, which would give him MHS attack speed and reactions. This isn't the case, Sekiro never reacts to it, he simply draws it into his sword, since it's a metallic weapon it is drawn to it.

Looking at scans below you can clearly see that his pose remains the same, he never does anything, he simply waits for the lighting to strike him or rather his sword and he then releases it at his enemy. He never reacts to it or anything but just waits for it to come at him. This applies to literally every enemy that uses lightning based attacks. This is even more valid since you don't actually have to do shit to catch lighting but just have to jump, although this ties to gameplay it still undeniably helps with disproving any MHS feats



feat 2) Lighting dodge

There are two characters which can project lightning at you, those being dem weird ass dogs, but you reflect them the same way as any other lightning meaning you don't react to it at all.

And Genichiro, whose attack you can actually dodge and it's a natural lighting he shoots from his bow, except that it isn't. these scans clearly show him using a Regular arrow which he then imbues with lightning, meaning that this is almost the same shit as Zelda's invalid Light arrows from OOT and MM, the element is there but it's just a season to the main dish or how should I put it. and if you don't believe me, go watch this clip and pause it at the right moment to see for yourself.


Bonus:Okami leader Shizu

Don't even try bringing this guy's balls up, This scan speaks for itself

2) Consistency

Simply put, it's severely inconsistent, as most of the time sekiro shows to be able to dodge rifle bullets from a gun or a pistol (Ishin Ashina), that is by far a lot more consistent and correct than MHS feats, so he should be like supersonic. lightning dodging feats are as seen above false or if not that iffy as **** so that take as you will, but MHS is out of the question.


If I missed something well **** it, bring it up and well see how it works out

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I agree 100%.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

While I kind of agree with this, saying that a character can only dodge bullets and thus shouldn't be anything higher is kinda false. If that werre so, all From Software characters shouldn't be Massively Hypersonic.

 

[Paul_Frank]

You can dodge the weird lightning dogs though you dont have to redirect it

You also do kinda reflect the attack considering if you successfully redirect it you take no damage as opposed to if you just eat the lightning

 

[Konaguna]

Then dodging the dogs is an outlier since it's literally the only feat that might be valid, although probably not since the source of lightning ain't clouds

True you don't take damage but essentially the animation is still the same, that's why I said it ties heavily to gameplay. Also I didn't say you don't reflect the attack I said you don't react to it.

 

[Konaguna]

Refresh

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The lightning literally comes from the storm though, just look at Isshin's boss fight.

Lightning dodge is fair game in my eyes, and you can literally dodge/deflect bullets, what the goddam...

 

[Konaguna]

I made a extensive explanation as to why this is false but I'll explain it again and put it as simply as I can

Genichiro: His lightning arrows are not pure lightining, they are just regular arrows infused with lightning so dodging them isn't MHS, same goes for Shizu's balls

Divine Drago: There are no lightning dodgin feats here, you simply attract lightning to your sword and project it out

Lightning infusio Genichiro, Fountain headed warriors, Isshin, all of them just channel lighting into their sword to amplify their attack, no MHS feats are performed at all.

Dogs: You may be able to dodge their projectiles, although their lightning is not natural since they themselves produce it, so it might as well be electricity it would also be an outlier either way

As for the bullets, idgaf, i didn't propose a different speed i just pointed out why the current one is wrong

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You left out the part where you catch the lightning to throw at Divine Dragon. Like actually catch it. And that the lightning is still moving about when you infuse it. These are both MHS feats.

 

[Podonklos]

Just because you catch the lightning doesn't mean you're moving at comparable speeds to it. Lightning rods catch lightning as well, and that's basically what Wolf is acting like during the feat. He's not moving his hand at massively hypersonic speeds to grab a bolt out of the air, it's simply hitting his metallic sword.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Then calc the speed. Claiming the next best speed feat is dogs is incorrect.

 

[Podonklos]

You can't calc the speed. I've explained this to you elsewhere, but the lightning strikes within a single frame. It's impossible to compare it to anything else.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It doesn't strike within a single frame though. That's what you're misunderstanding and I'm 900% certain you haven't played the game based on this. You've just ignored me every time I've tried to explain this to you.



These frames are one apart on 25 FPS. In the second one it hasn't even hit the ground yet, plus there are extensions still moving during all of this (the lightning lasts for a second or so on-screen and moves the entire time).
I dunno where you got your idea of "lolinstantlightning" but it just straight up isn't true.

 

[Konaguna]

He doesn't even catch or react to the lightning, he just waits for it to hit his sword, then projects it out. And the dogs shoot Electricity not lightning.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm not talking about dogs? I'm talking about lightning that he moves at speeds comparable to. I'm unfollowing but I've already debunked Kona's arguments and Podonklos I've shown the above proof. Cheers.

 

[AguilaR101]

If anything I would suggest downscaling the from the speed of lighting based on how much the character moves within a number of frames, the large sword coming down at speeds faster than lighting doesn't really justify direct scaling as it has a such a massive windup the character has more than enough time to move out of its path before it even hits him.

It would still be MHS, just to lower deegree.

 

[Podonklos]

It doesn't strike within a single frame though. That's what you're misunderstanding and I'm 900% certain you haven't played the game based on this. You've just ignored me every time I've tried to explain this to you.

Awfully presumptuous of you. Would you like me to take a picture of the genuine, bonafide copy of Sekiro I have in my room right now? I feel like that might be sufficient.

But also, no. You're still wrong. The lightning in the background does take more than one frame to land, yes, but it's also slower than the lightning you interact with for the Lightning Reversal. Here's two frames of that, spaced 1 frame apart at 60 FPS.



It reaches you instantaneously.
And now, here's the thing. Even if we scale Wolf off of the lightning in the background he still needs to be downgraded.

The lightning in the background goes from the clouds to the ground in 3 frames, moving a vast majority of the distance in just 2 frames and only the last few meters in the 3rd frame.

Wolf's faster swings in this same video take 5 frames to cover an arc of about 180 degrees. Just doing some back of the hand calculations here (assuming Wolf's swinging radius is about 2.5 meters and the clouds are 2 km up), Wolf would only be attacking at about 700 m/s, rounding up.

That's Supersonic.

 

[Konaguna]

yOu HaVe nOt eVeN pLaYeD tHe gAme

Want me to show you my save files before you say some more stupid shit?

You didn't debunk anything, he doesn't even move at speeds comparable to lightning lmfao, have you even read my thread? There are no reactions speed or attack feats on this level lmfao

 

[Konaguna]

Anyone else disagrees with this? Or agrees? Time to apply?

 

[AguilaR101]

You're better off arguing wether or not the feats are consistent and how reliable the frame by frame breakdown of the divine dragon fight is, from what I've seen and understand characters are currently rated MHS off the fact they move at speeds comparable to lightning in a frame by frame comparison (though its a bit inflated from what I can see), not because of the reasons initially pointed in your posts.

 

[Jesterofgames]

You would need more input. You can not apply it yet. You can not apply it with just 8 people commenting on a thread. Especially when 1 of them is a staff member who disagrees with it.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Why is lightning and electricity treated differently?

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Anyway, I don't agree with the OP that Wolf acts as a sort of lightning rod to catch the lightning. I believe he really is reacting to it, and that's because there are circumstances in the game where cloud-to-ground lightning will hurt you automatically. This shouldn't be the case if Wolf's sword is automatically acting as a lightning rod. He must be doing something consciously in order to catch the lightning (i.e. reacting to it).

Also, typcially when a character in a video game can react to lightning, the gameplay will do something for the player that indicates that lightning is about to strike. Usually, you see a spot on the ground indicating it's about to happen. We see this on the way up to the Divine Dragon boss fight where lightning is randomly striking the ground (and this lightning will hurt you automatically). There's always a glowing spot on the ground indicating that it's about to happen. This is likely a representation of Wolf being able to react to it, but obviously we the players can't react to it, so this gameplay element is put into it instead.

I think you also see something like this in Dark Souls, which is another FromSoftware game where the protagonists are accepted as MHS+.

 

[Konaguna]

Being portrayed to move at MHS speeds because the lightning appears a bit faster than him is false. He's portrayed to move slower than bullets so this is basically abuse of cinematic time.

He's not reacting to it, he literally just reacts to the enemy's attacks while utilizing lightning so he can can jump in the air before he attacks, thus making his sword the conductor.

And the symbol for danger doesn't prove anything at all, it warns you from certain attack so you can mikiri counter or dodge it correctly. Being hurt by lightning on the ground is just a game mechanic since they needed a gimmick for this sort of ability.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

And the symbol for danger doesn't prove anything at all, it warns you from certain attack so you can mikiri counter or dodge it correctly. Being hurt by lightning on the ground is just a game mechanic since they needed a gimmick for this sort of ability.

I'm not talking about the symbols. I'm talking about the indicator that lightning is about to hit the ground. Wolf can dodge that.

 

[Konaguna]

What? Your sentence makes no sense. Those kanji are the indicators that lightning is about to strike

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

What? Your sentence makes no sense. Those kanji are the indicators that lightning is about to strike

There's no kanji symbol for the lightning that passively strikes while on your way up to the Divine Dragon. There's a glowing indicator on the ground, however.

 

[Konaguna]

And? He's not reacting to or doing anything with it at all, don't see how that's relevant

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

And? He's not reacting to or doing anything with it at all, don't see how that's relevant

He is if you happen to be standing over it.

 

[Konaguna]

Imma need scans, gimme an example of it cuz I'm pretty sure you can not react to it

 

[Konaguna]

No scans? anyone got anything to say or I'm gonna change it

 

[AguilaR101]

You can't perform changes unless more people agree, they're just gonna get reverted.

 

[Konaguna]

Why would I need people to agree when me and Podonklos have already debunked everything?

 

[Andytrenom]

Because those are the rules. You can't perform changes without an '''accepted''' CRT.

 

[Konaguna]

So what you're telling me is that the number of people that actually agree with the post trump debunked claims?

 

[Andytrenom]

Are you interested in following the rules or not? If you aren't say so straight.

 

[Konaguna]

Do I have a choice?

 

[Andytrenom]

If you break rules it will have consequences, it's up to you to decide if you want them or not. This is as simple as it's going to be, so either wait for input, try to call some staff if needed or stay put, trying to argue your way out of following these rules is going to accomplish nothing

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Like Andy said, that's not something you can do. Unless the opposition is utterly argumentless, then you need to convince a majority of people in order to consider the opposition "debunked", given how that's a subjective thing.

Regarding the feats, can we have a video or smth? If the lightning is shown to be instant to the player's perspective, then yeah, MHS should go. But if it actually moves at a visible speed, it might still be calcable for something.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Play the video at 0.5 speed at this point and you can see Sekiro reacting to the lightning just as it hits him.