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It's already been dealt with.StrongClick said:
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SCP should not be allowed on this site.
- Thread starter GilgaArcuied
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- #42
Do I even need to mention how concerning it is that a admin who heavily favours the verse asked about hilbert space on the scp forum.. I really didn't wanna mention this but yeah. That does not help at all.
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Not everything on the site is by an officially published author with editors. Do you understand this?
This "recreating a setting" is two paragraphs of a character interacting with a setting. Does this seriously make something fanfiction?
This "recreating a setting" is two paragraphs of a character interacting with a setting. Does this seriously make something fanfiction?
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Very concerning which is why, like I said, admins were contacted when we found out. I don't know what their verdict was because I'm not staff, but the situation's apparently been handled to their decision.GilgaArcuied said:
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I understand that, but I don't understand why you say that then you point to marvel and DC when there's no correlation whatsoever. Your points don't flow.Agnaa said:
there's also a significant difference between a webcomic author and a contributor to the scp wiki, as previously mentioned, profiles can be created by anyone, not just the original author. Which is why that argument does not hold up well either.
>This "recreating a setting" is two paragraphs of a character interacting with a setting. Does this seriously make something fanfiction?
...
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Because they're examples of popular verses that you would recognize. If you want, pretend I said Paranatural and Spoonkiller instead. It does not change the essence of my point in the slightest.
Profiles can be created by anyone, but they'd only stay around if they have high quality. Like anyone can make a webcomic, but it'd only get popular enough for this wiki if it's high quality.
I'm not familiar with a bunch of media so I can't 100% vouch for this, but if two paragraphs of a setting is fanfiction, I've heard that Deadpool, Playstation All-Stars, and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure would all be fanfiction by that standard.
Profiles can be created by anyone, but they'd only stay around if they have high quality. Like anyone can make a webcomic, but it'd only get popular enough for this wiki if it's high quality.
I'm not familiar with a bunch of media so I can't 100% vouch for this, but if two paragraphs of a setting is fanfiction, I've heard that Deadpool, Playstation All-Stars, and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure would all be fanfiction by that standard.
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- #48
except that in those verses they are used in a humorful, self aware, or rhetorical way, not as a actual plot point to be taken seriously.
Also they are references. Not fanfiction. fanfiction can included but is not limited to the ACTUAL characters and setting.
Also they are references. Not fanfiction. fanfiction can included but is not limited to the ACTUAL characters and setting.
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you both mentioned the same verses.. interesting
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Yeah, there's a discord to discuss an SCP cosmology blog (the server which has been advertised on vsbw before) where he mentioned them, do you want to join?
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I'd argue that the SCP is written in a more self aware by virtue of the fact that you'd have to be privy to metafictional writing to understand the article but I digress.
Ungalo isn't using Bohemian Rapsody as something humorous or ironic. It's a legitimate Stand ability that allows him to summon characters not owned by JoJo. The characters literally have a role in stopping the main characters from reaching their goal.
Ungalo isn't using Bohemian Rapsody as something humorous or ironic. It's a legitimate Stand ability that allows him to summon characters not owned by JoJo. The characters literally have a role in stopping the main characters from reaching their goal.
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By the way, we're trying to fix the verse believe it or not. We have put a lot of effort into trying to explain a lot of how things work and discussing ways to make the verse not wanked. This thread is not helping our case, and is a huge blow to all the progress we have made on the Discord thesd past few months.Agnaa said:
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While I appreciate the offer I would prefer to keep the discussions of SCP here so that people can see the convos more.. transparently? yeah. May I join sometime in the future though? just for casual chit chat.
>Ungalo literally uses characters that Araki has no license to use as part of a character's serious power, how is it not fanfiction and a plot point?
I suppose this would fall under what I mentioned earlier above as.. plaguarism? I know Japan is very loose with the copywrite law but that actually sounds like a cool ability.
>Ungalo literally uses characters that Araki has no license to use as part of a character's serious power, how is it not fanfiction and a plot point?
I suppose this would fall under what I mentioned earlier above as.. plaguarism? I know Japan is very loose with the copywrite law but that actually sounds like a cool ability.
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Staff explicitly asked us to stop talking about SCP here (with a hinted threat of deleting the verse) because they were tired of the amount of threads. Our hands are kind of tied. There's an open google doc and server for it and that's the best (I think) we can do with the hand we've been dealt.GilgaArcuied said:
Now that agree that it would fall under plagiarism, are you now pushing to delete both JoJo and SCP, or neither?
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We shouldn't shut down discussion because of that. If SCP doesn't belong on the site it doesn't belong on the site, so it does, this discussion should continue to a conclusion so everyone's on the same page that it belongs.Sir Ovens said:
A lot of work have gone into verses that have been deleted (I believe one was called Golacheverse?), time spent working on it is no excuse.
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you're jumping the gun, I did not say that scp is plaguarism (on some level it is but like i mentioned earlier it's not professionally recognized for it to be considered such, ie: earn money off of it) , it does indeed contain fanfiction, with actual characters from the setrting being present, whether it is fictional within the verse or not makes little difference.
for the life of me i cannot understand why you would force SCP threads off the wiki?? like i said that causes some transparency issues.. May aswell ban SCP from versus threads as they spiral out of control so wearily often that I have lost count. we should promote open dialogue like adults
>Honestly, we should stop. We are literally very close to coming up with a proper system for Narratives and we don't need SCP shut down when we are so close to fixing it.
Whilst I do apologize fif this is inconvenient I won't compromise on standards of the verses that should appear on this wiki.
for the life of me i cannot understand why you would force SCP threads off the wiki?? like i said that causes some transparency issues.. May aswell ban SCP from versus threads as they spiral out of control so wearily often that I have lost count. we should promote open dialogue like adults
>Honestly, we should stop. We are literally very close to coming up with a proper system for Narratives and we don't need SCP shut down when we are so close to fixing it.
Whilst I do apologize fif this is inconvenient I won't compromise on standards of the verses that should appear on this wiki.
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you're jumping the gun, I did not say that scp is plaguarism, it does indeed contain fanfiction, with actual characters from the setrting being present, whether it is fictional within the verse or not makes little difference.
You're right, but my point is that JoJo seems to meet the same criteria for fanfiction, so do you want to delete it as well as SCP or do you not want either deleted?
for the life of me i cannot understand why you would force SCP threads off the wiki?? like i said that causes some transparency issues.. May aswell ban SCP from versus threads as they spiral out of control so wearily often that I have lost count.
I didn't force it off, staff did. I really hate it but staff are the ones to complain to.
Whilst I do apologize fif this is inconvenient I won't compromise on standards of the verses that should appear on this wiki.
I (clearly from my above statement) agree with this sentiment.
You're right, but my point is that JoJo seems to meet the same criteria for fanfiction, so do you want to delete it as well as SCP or do you not want either deleted?
for the life of me i cannot understand why you would force SCP threads off the wiki?? like i said that causes some transparency issues.. May aswell ban SCP from versus threads as they spiral out of control so wearily often that I have lost count.
I didn't force it off, staff did. I really hate it but staff are the ones to complain to.
Whilst I do apologize fif this is inconvenient I won't compromise on standards of the verses that should appear on this wiki.
I (clearly from my above statement) agree with this sentiment.
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Well i was primarily the creator of the profile, because i liked the file, call me a wanker or whatever but i'm fine with it getting changed or something, so please stop attacking the verse initself or people supporting it. Also it having some other fictional stuff in the stories making it fanfiction is quite ridiculous and wrong, many famous SCP's take from other literary works like the Hanged King from the King in Yellow, also many other verse reference other franchises, hell Gintoki does so liberally does that mean its fanfiction?GilgaArcuied said:
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I have repeatedly told you about the false equivalency of professional authors and internet wiki page creators. Plaguarism is something that Jojo itself can sort out with the relevent parties. This is veering too far offtopic and i'd like to not distract from the main point of the insecurities of the verse any further.
This is likely going to go in circles so i'd recommend just letting others comment their opinions on the discussion had so far. save us all the time.
oh, and when I said "you" i Didn't mean literally, I was speaking to the Wiki as a whole.
This is likely going to go in circles so i'd recommend just letting others comment their opinions on the discussion had so far. save us all the time.
oh, and when I said "you" i Didn't mean literally, I was speaking to the Wiki as a whole.
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So if you're published and have an editor you can do fanfiction, but if you're not you can't? This isn't at all off-topic, it's about what verses have fanfiction and whether that should cause them to be deleted, and I think we're making progress with that conversation.
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what jojo did is not fanfiction. that's plaguarism. Japan has lax laws regarding copyright, take it up with them if it bothers you so. I don't particularly care since this is a SCP discussion and not a "insert verse with references to others here" discussion.
It's just a attempt to distract from the main issue here. Not biting.
It's just a attempt to distract from the main issue here. Not biting.
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So copying another setting's characters into your own story is not fanfiction?
So for fanfiction are you requiring for characters to actually go into another story's setting? Even in that case I'd be amazed if there were no verses on the site that didn't go into another story's setting for a few scenes. My media knowledge is very limited but maybe something like wreck-it-ralph has done that? If the other story being explored can be fictional in-verse (like it is in SCPs case here) then I know that Nichijou had one of the characters pretty blatantly playing Dragon Quest.
It's not a "insert verse with references to others here" discussion, but you're saying that SCP should be deleted from vsbw because of a reason. And I'm demonstrating that no other verse has gotten deleted or prevented from being made because of those reasons and those reasons alone.
If you're going to delete one verse for a reason, it should be a reason that you're fine applying to other verses and deleting as well. We can't delete Naruto for having too many episodes without deleting One Piece as well.
So for fanfiction are you requiring for characters to actually go into another story's setting? Even in that case I'd be amazed if there were no verses on the site that didn't go into another story's setting for a few scenes. My media knowledge is very limited but maybe something like wreck-it-ralph has done that? If the other story being explored can be fictional in-verse (like it is in SCPs case here) then I know that Nichijou had one of the characters pretty blatantly playing Dragon Quest.
It's not a "insert verse with references to others here" discussion, but you're saying that SCP should be deleted from vsbw because of a reason. And I'm demonstrating that no other verse has gotten deleted or prevented from being made because of those reasons and those reasons alone.
If you're going to delete one verse for a reason, it should be a reason that you're fine applying to other verses and deleting as well. We can't delete Naruto for having too many episodes without deleting One Piece as well.
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Like I told you, no comparison. Just read what I said above a few times. the fanfiction stuff just adds to the list of reasons this verse should be not present on this wiki, like throwing a gallon of fuel onto a fire spreading hectares. it doesn't matter in the grand scheme all that much.
So I would appreciate if you stop the reoccuring attempts to distract from the main flaw with scp.
Now, I want to see what others think about this verse being extremely susceptible to wanking statistics via creating ones own char or influencing those that can to do so. Especially now that it has become clear that a respected staff member had already attempted to do so..
So I would appreciate if you stop the reoccuring attempts to distract from the main flaw with scp.
Now, I want to see what others think about this verse being extremely susceptible to wanking statistics via creating ones own char or influencing those that can to do so. Especially now that it has become clear that a respected staff member had already attempted to do so..
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Oh, so the main point is the fact that people can ask the authors to wank characters and the authors are under no obligation to do so?
Do you think that other verses with no editors or publishers should be deleted from the website as well? As people can also ask these authors to make their characters powerful and there's no publisher or editor to keep the authors in check. Why/why not?
Do you think that other verses with no editors or publishers should be deleted from the website as well? As people can also ask these authors to make their characters powerful and there's no publisher or editor to keep the authors in check. Why/why not?
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Again i take full responsibility for the profile, but attacking a whole verse from just one profile is ridiculous
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Sure, if those fans can also add and write their own story ontop of the authors go ahead and make the same thread I did here. such generalization and faulty comparisons do you no good
(I answered this above earlier aswell)
(I answered this above earlier aswell)
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See now you're jumping back and forth again between issues because your justification for one falls flat (fans can request authors to write stronger characters, and fans can write stronger characters themselves). The fans need to have their story meet a pretty solid quality threshold to stay on the site.
Anyone could write a webcomic and write it well enough to have it get popular and put here, and they could wank it out of our comprehension, does this mean that all webcomics should be banned?
OR, is your point that since people could write things in the same canon as other authors the problem is worse? I don't really get that since they could wank the same amount regardless.
Anyone could write a webcomic and write it well enough to have it get popular and put here, and they could wank it out of our comprehension, does this mean that all webcomics should be banned?
OR, is your point that since people could write things in the same canon as other authors the problem is worse? I don't really get that since they could wank the same amount regardless.
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I'm not jumping back and fourth both are present issues.
>Anyone could write a webcomic and write it well enough to have it get popular and put here, and they could wank it out of our comprehension, does this mean that all webcomics should be banned?
Nonsensical and unrealistic. May aswell say anyone can become a official author with wsj and become the #1 best seller in japan within a year.
Please don't waste my time Agnaa.
I will not be responding to you post this comment. i'm more interested in others take of the glaring issues regarding SCP.
>Anyone could write a webcomic and write it well enough to have it get popular and put here, and they could wank it out of our comprehension, does this mean that all webcomics should be banned?
Nonsensical and unrealistic. May aswell say anyone can become a official author with wsj and become the #1 best seller in japan within a year.
Please don't waste my time Agnaa.
I will not be responding to you post this comment. i'm more interested in others take of the glaring issues regarding SCP.
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I'm not jumping back and fourth both are present issues.
Yes you are. We were talking about fanfiction, you dropped that and moved onto people convincing the authors to wank characters, you dropped that and now moved onto people writing their own overpowered SCPs. These are all topics that we've gone through before (Fafictio, author manipulation, people writing their own SCPs), and you've been the one changing the subject every single time.
You didn't conceded the point or rebuke it, you just stopped responding to that train of thought and changed the subject.
Nonsensical and unrealistic. May aswell say anyone can become a official author with wsj and become the #1 best seller in japan within a year.
How? We have multiple youtube videos/youtube series with verse pages here. How is getting a video series with a few hundred thousand views or a moderately popular webcomic or making an indie game as hard as becoming a WSJ author or the #1 best seller in Japan?
Yes you are. We were talking about fanfiction, you dropped that and moved onto people convincing the authors to wank characters, you dropped that and now moved onto people writing their own overpowered SCPs. These are all topics that we've gone through before (Fafictio, author manipulation, people writing their own SCPs), and you've been the one changing the subject every single time.
You didn't conceded the point or rebuke it, you just stopped responding to that train of thought and changed the subject.
Nonsensical and unrealistic. May aswell say anyone can become a official author with wsj and become the #1 best seller in japan within a year.
How? We have multiple youtube videos/youtube series with verse pages here. How is getting a video series with a few hundred thousand views or a moderately popular webcomic or making an indie game as hard as becoming a WSJ author or the #1 best seller in Japan?
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So what I'm seeing is that you're thinking scp should be removed because anyone can write an article to make it op
While this is technically true it would not happen there are high standards for articles and unless the article is written well and fits the standards of quality for the site it won't stay if you don't belive this I challenge you to go and write an article designed to be as op as possible and see how long it stays up
On the topic of fans can request a good author to write an op scp for them first off almost every good artist would deny them and second they would still run into the above problem
Ontop of that you kept calling it fanfic but I'm not sure you understand what fanfic is a fanfiction is a story made by a fan that takes place within another established verse usually using characters or idea that already exist within the original story the things found in scp are metafiction as in Sao Harry Potter Lotr and such are considered fiction within that verse they aren't part of the verse technically but even in scp they exist as books and scps that reference them tend to be able to affect fiction in some way
As a side note I'm not in the discord so can someone explain why the 196k dimensions thing is being changed
While this is technically true it would not happen there are high standards for articles and unless the article is written well and fits the standards of quality for the site it won't stay if you don't belive this I challenge you to go and write an article designed to be as op as possible and see how long it stays up
On the topic of fans can request a good author to write an op scp for them first off almost every good artist would deny them and second they would still run into the above problem
Ontop of that you kept calling it fanfic but I'm not sure you understand what fanfic is a fanfiction is a story made by a fan that takes place within another established verse usually using characters or idea that already exist within the original story the things found in scp are metafiction as in Sao Harry Potter Lotr and such are considered fiction within that verse they aren't part of the verse technically but even in scp they exist as books and scps that reference them tend to be able to affect fiction in some way
As a side note I'm not in the discord so can someone explain why the 196k dimensions thing is being changed
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The 196k thing is being changed because it was originally added with 3 statements backing it up, and now two of those have disappeared (removed by the author/retconned), and the next highest dimensionality statement is 26-dimensions, while the verse has dozens of statements around the 4-26D range.
There is one (or two?) uncountably infinite dimensions statement(s), but they both have some room for discussion and are still quite extreme outliers when there's many many more statements in the 4-26D range.
There is one (or two?) uncountably infinite dimensions statement(s), but they both have some room for discussion and are still quite extreme outliers when there's many many more statements in the 4-26D range.
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I obviously disagree with this proposal and agree heavily with Agnaa here. A few people being obnoxious and fanatic towards the verse doesn't suddenly mean we should delete it, nor does existing-works being part of the verse as fiction. That's taking two moderate issues and inflating them to apocalyptic degrees .
Jackythejack
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If you want to hear about what other people think, I must say, I don't think a lot of people are going to agreee with you. This is not fanfiction, this is meta-fiction. As someone who has actually written fan fiction, I can confirm that there is no way those few times actually qualify as fanfiction, and it certain wouldn't make the whole verse a fan fiction. It sounds like fan fiction is a lot more than you think it is, because this does not qualify.
Literally any author's are somewhat allowed to reference these sort of things in their novels. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to say characters read Harry Potter and such. You can make references to these things without it being considered fan fiction. That's what references are for. Frankly I can't see your logic here.
Literally any author's are somewhat allowed to reference these sort of things in their novels. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to say characters read Harry Potter and such. You can make references to these things without it being considered fan fiction. That's what references are for. Frankly I can't see your logic here.
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1. SCP is Metafiction.
2. Not anybody can write an SCP and exploit it. It is extremely hard to do so, and 90% of most SCPs from new writers get rejected due to a lack of experience.
Over-powered SCPs are even harder to write.
Hell, nowadays, reality-benders and beings that can destroy the universe easily are frowned upon, because it's not that interesting anymore.
3. We have webcomics, webseries, and youtube series on here. I don't see why SCP is any different, especially when it's one of the more popular ones.
4. Stop changing the topic whenever you're backed up into a corner.
And if it isn't already obvious, I disagree with your post.
2. Not anybody can write an SCP and exploit it. It is extremely hard to do so, and 90% of most SCPs from new writers get rejected due to a lack of experience.
Over-powered SCPs are even harder to write.
Hell, nowadays, reality-benders and beings that can destroy the universe easily are frowned upon, because it's not that interesting anymore.
3. We have webcomics, webseries, and youtube series on here. I don't see why SCP is any different, especially when it's one of the more popular ones.
4. Stop changing the topic whenever you're backed up into a corner.
And if it isn't already obvious, I disagree with your post.
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Bad SCPs, and unpopular ones are deleted on the SCPWiki, which is the source, so there is moderation on what qualifies as an SCP i.e. Its not whatever a rando on the internet comes up with.
If you are instead arguing that a large number of people can contribute to it and there are contradicting power levels for its character depending on the writer.. then by that logic DC and Marvel Comics verses should be removed as well.
Plus, doesn't the SCPWiki state nothing is canon? So even if you think a certain character is unusual, just remove it, as the wiki can label it as noncanon since it doesn't support its rules.
I don't think an entire verse should be deleted for this wonky reasoning
If you are instead arguing that a large number of people can contribute to it and there are contradicting power levels for its character depending on the writer.. then by that logic DC and Marvel Comics verses should be removed as well.
Plus, doesn't the SCPWiki state nothing is canon? So even if you think a certain character is unusual, just remove it, as the wiki can label it as noncanon since it doesn't support its rules.
I don't think an entire verse should be deleted for this wonky reasoning
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"It's possible to influence" is irrelevant if you can't find any examples of such a thing even happening. If something passes through quality control and isn't an outlier, I'm not sure what would even really be wrong with that. We're gonna end up with rather stringent regulations on consistency with SCP.
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