Scp cosmology/questions

[Raizel]

So i m really new to this all scaling stuff and this may not make any snese but i found someoone who scaled the scp foundation (composite)
1. First of all does this scaling make sense? If no why not?
2. lets say it does make sense and you simply take everything given here where would the verse scale to? And why?

PS: i m mainly interested in the topic "cosmology" so if its troublesome you cam ignore the other 2 but ofc it would be good if you could also answer about it

Also it kind of feels like people dont want to do scp compiste scaling when vs other verse bcz it would dwarf some of these supposedly stronger verses

I will use composite SCP scalling for this and strongest canons for Foundation so forget something like broken masquerade and similar consistencies.​

​

SCP Foundation​

Foundation can look at the multiverse and see all possibilities:

"We got a message from, um, a place where the Foundation- our friends- can look at the multiverse. Do you know what that is? It's, um, our science says that there are many possible universes, and whenever anything happens, there are different ways it could have happened. And for each possibility, the world splits, so there are different worlds for every different thing that could happen. Those worlds aren't easy to see, but they're real in some way, and our friends say that they can see all the ways these choices and events can unfold. They all start from the same place, but they have every event that could have happened.

Can look at realities that hadn't been formed yet:

I was already a sitting member of the O5 council thirty years ago when Omega was discovered. The seal had been lifted only two years prior, and we still had the best tech in meta-universals. Anomalous tech. Stuff the public didn't and never would have. We didn't realize it at the time, but we were able to look into realities that hadn't been formed yet, futures that didn't even exist.

Can create infinite number of multiverses:

For all of their beautiful equipment, for all of their ability to condense infinite multiverses into simulated elegant strands, for their careful algorithms that robbed tiny amounts of energy from the beginning of time, taking it to leave messages in its absence and then recycling it into light, food, oxygen, and entropy reversal for one small extratemporal homestead of wayward earthlings- for all of that

Created all concepts, existing above standard conceptualization, transcended to living ideas(Tier IV):

All human-derived concepts — including but not limited to literary constructs, philosophy, and emotions — aim to establish control over a threat, a disadvantageous narrative, or an opposing philosophy, in an analogous manner to the Foundation's containment of anomalous phenomena

Tier IV: Metaphysical

Entities existing above standard conceptualization.

Unknown; encompasses all ideas and objects which humanity cannot currently perceive or entertain in the abstract.

Contained every single SCP? (Tier V):

Bracks: Noted. If I understood the parable correctly, are you suggesting that the Foundation has become a Tier V conceptual anomaly?
Irantu: Negative. I am saying that it always was Tier V. Your limited perception of Containment as a set of concrete-and-metal facilities located on a spinning rock is merely the residual effect of its elevation. Throughout all times and places, Containment has permeated and proliferated. The Foundation's final directive has already been accomplished: we have contained reality itself.
Irantu: Affirmative. It is the ceiling: an impassible stone barrier into which we carved our insignia. We marked the conceptual universe as our own. I can see the researchers and Overseers and D-Class welcoming me home. I would apologize to them if I could.
Bracks: Irantu? Please explain that comment.
Irantu: Does it need an explanation, Doctor? I have already told you that Containment has become a universal constant. There will always be the watchful eye of a deity, always the rigid authoritarianism of an Intrinsic, always the abyss which will stare back, always the Foundation. We have made infantilization a universal dogma. After 2103, there will be no choice. There will be no threat to uniformity. There will only be Containment. And who watches the watchmen?

By using SCP 3309 they can remove their own articles:

Items affected by SCP-3309 have included anomalous objects, entities, locations, and conceptual structures. Anomalies affected by this phenomenon appear to lack a causal relation; SCP-3309 activity is indicated by a note of unknown origin (designated SCP-3309-1).
Between 24 and 36 hr before the disappearance of an anomaly, SCP-3309-1 appears appended to the item's file. Documents undergoing SCP-3309 become wiped from all known file systems, including Protected Site-01 and RAISA Archives. Afterward, the anomaly itself becomes effectively neutralized or otherwise disappears.

Can use any fictional charater in fiction and create their own:

Procedure Kuzco-Bueller has been developed by Subnarrativics, utilising SCP-826, for the purpose of full narrative extraction - taking fictional entities and bringing them into our reality. We plan to create a task force of hypernarrative entities with this procedure, enlisting the aid of our standard scout as a recruiter, with the purpose of creating a new narrative plane under our influence that intersects with other narrative planes

Can kill their own Authors aka SCP 001 - Database by using S.W.A.N.N. Engine:

SCP-5500-Ω are humanoid, possibly human, entities that exist in a reality above the greater multiverse observed by the Foundation. These entities have the capability to alter our reality and adjacent realities through the medium of creative writing, though the amount of influence they have is unclear.
The death of an SCP-5500-Ω instance causes severe metaphysical backlash to the universe or entities it had a part in influencing. The broadness of the sphere of influence varies, as does the corresponding level of destruction— the apparently natural death of SCP-5500-Ω-1 resulted in the deaths of at least four individuals and three SCP objects, while the murder of SCP-5500-Ω-56 resulted in the complete destruction of the Horizon Initiative in all observed universes, as well as the depopulation of the United Kingdom in the Baseline universe.

Welp, thas all for now.

SCP Cosmology​

Time to prove why SCP has one of the biggest cosmology in fiction:

Mutliverse who works on Transfinite induction something that goes beyond simple infinity and caps at Uncountable Infinity (ℵ1) :

Like a string of beads, chained throughout reality, universe after universe, each exceeding the last in their vast wealth of knowledge. We were only the second in a chain that went on forever.
And when MUORG followed that chain, they found that it did more than continue indefinitely. One string of worlds reached its limit, somehow, impossibly, one of those many before it had figured out how to allow the process to go on forever, terminating in a single, infinitely far away, limiting world.
And then they'd continued.
That limiting world had spawned another more advanced still, and that one another. And they'd created another limit. Two infinite chains standing beginning to end. Then three, four, five….
The mathematicians working for us at the time said they were following a pattern called "transfinite recursion". A process by which a linear ordering could be extended beyond the simple infinity of "1, 2, 3…".
First an infinite chain of universes. Then 2, then 3…
Then an infinite chain of infinite chains. Then 2, then 3.
Then repeat. Each time there are as many of the last thing as there are numbers, repeat again.
In the end, each universe had a place in an order that was as deep as mathematically possible.

Multiverse which scales to even beyond Uncountable Infinites and caps at Replaceable Uncountable Infinites (ℵω):

Unfortunately, the world is not dynamic. Everything's already over, I've already read it. All of this? It's just going through the motions. This is just a tiny subset of the world at large. I'd call it the 'real' word, but it's just as real as we are in here. The larger space that we're in… much larger, in fact, uncountably infinite expanses in uncountably infinite dimensions… we fill that space. And yet, here, we're discretised. Collapsed into words and nothing more, even if we're something so much greater.
See, sometimes the infinite can be reduced to something simpler. Look here: ℵ0 and ℵ1 and ℵ2 and so on. Simple, yes, but they can each contain the world. You can glimpse it, if you look hard enough. Just breathe in, breathe out. Think about infinity. Not just countable, but uncountable, and the dimension of it goes up into uncountability too. If you think you've really understood it, you aren't thinking hard enough. Sure, zoom past the pitstops. 5, 23, 3333. They're all beautiful, but so horrendously finite. Fly past it all and keep going and going. Minds have died wishing for a fraction of what I can see. So breathe slowly, and think about it.
Really think about it, and the world seems like nothing.

5D is also Aleph Space:

Right, so what we've learned so far about SCP-5800 is that it's an ecological ideaspace for extremely volatile abstract concepts. These things have a hierarchy of sorts which is dictated by the size of these beings.
I use the term "size" loosely because th- [coughs] there ah… these things are presented in sets of infinities; like how many integers or natural numbers there are in- in mathematics. The sheer size of these- these beings are defined as uncountable infinities. Despite logic telling us that there can't be anything larger in scale than… well… infinity.
Yeah, I know to the average layman that can't be possible. But it's very much true. These beings are represented by their "aleph numbers": numbers which represent the cardinality of infinite sets. Professor Hutchinson stated that such beings exist in these numbers and have been known to for quite some time.

So if 5D ℵω logically 6D is above 5D then 6D can be scaled even higher and so on.

This alone proves that SCP works on LEVEL IV Multiverse and that every universe is described by different mathematical structures.

There are numberless layers of existence (Ignore part about the Creator):

The Creator had countless aspects, avatars, incarnations, and manifestations across all of the infinite layers of existence, innumerable layers of nonexistence, and the numberless layers of transcendent reality beyond the conceptual duality and distinction between existence and nonexistence

Eveything here is just part of one layer narrative of SCP, there are possibly infinite layers (high end) before Alpha Layer:

The gist of this update is the incorporation of Doctor Huever's Hypercanon theory, which holds that our reality is not a single narrative bulk below the Alpha layer, but an n-dimensional set of narrative planes connecting at defined conceptual points

So if One layer is ℵω and each layer is ℵωω and so on then Alpha Layer would probably be Replacement - Inaccessible Infinity (ε0, ignoring 5D scalling above).

Lets use now real math and composite scalling: if 5D is already ℵω from statements above, then 6D should be ℵωω, 7D ℵωωω and up to infinite D to be ε0 which is just one layer to unknown, but lets hypothetically say there are infinite layer so each layer is then ε1, ε2, ε3 and so on. Then Alpha layer should be Cantor's oridnial (ζ) etc. (note: in general we are talking about SCP foundation 5D structure which is not Temporal, Geometrical, Quantum-Based, etc. They are Spatial with beings being representation of Aleph Numbers).

Above Alpha Layer are infinite realities (scales to inaccessible cardinal):

It is unlikely that we will ever know anything about the being or beings that supersede us (if they even exist), not in any tangible way, let alone any being that would supersede them. It may very well be that we are just one of an infinite number of realities, stacked on top of each other in every direction, influencing those below us and being influenced by those above us. This echelon, upon which sits ourselves and everything that ever was or will be, would likely be the most fundamental aspect of the organization of creation. The very foundation of all things.
SCP-3812: I have seen an infinite shore, one that stretches out before us beyond what the mind can comprehend. Each grain of sand on that beach, each droplet of water and molecule of air is a story to be told. Each is a song to be sung. Each of them is full of life, of laughter, of misery, of hate. They are all the same, even as they are all different.

This is it for now, in future I will probably update it:

So they scale from ℵ1, ℵω, ε0 and ζ.

REALMS​

Realms that are part of the Multiverse or are higher dimensional places:

The Wanderers Library:

The Wanderer's Library is the hub of all knowledge throughout every universe and dimension. Its endless halls carry every book that has or ever will be written
The Library is at the root of every world, universe, and timeline that has ever existed, or will ever exist
Yeah, go ahead. Of course you can read them, don't be stupid. Be a pretty shit library if you couldn't read the books, right? But you won't be able to read all of them, so don't bother trying. I know guys who have spent lifetimes trying to complete just one shelf. And there are countless shelves in the Library — that's not an expression. As far as we know, the place is quite literally infinite, in every direction. At night, try looking up — you can see the stars. Sometimes you come across entire clouds forming at the tops of shelves. Don't ask me where the light comes from — I couldn't tell you. Matter of fact, there's a lot about this place nobody knows. Nobody knows when it was founded; it just seems to have always been here. Nobody knows where the books come from; they just appear. And, of course, nobody knows who created it, if anyone.
Here I found the seat of all Knowledge, a place where all wanderers come to rest. Within this realm was all knowledge that is and is not, and all that was and was not, and all that will be, and will not be. Amongst its words reclined many gods, and many mortal beings studied at their feet. They were all pilgrims, come to the seat of all Knowledge so that they might learn. The stores of knowledge were guarded by a great legion of keepers: blind Archivists, and Docents with their lanterns, and the Pages that swing between the shelves

There is also Alagadda dimensional nexus of the multiverse in which all higher and lower dimensions are unified into a single world in which all beings can interact with each other regardless of their dimension of origin, but it seems I can't find sources rip.

5D (same quote):

Right, so what we've learned so far about SCP-5800 is that it's an ecological ideaspace for extremely volatile abstract concepts. These things have a hierarchy of sorts which is dictated by the size of these beings.
I use the term "size" loosely because th- [coughs] there ah… these things are presented in sets of infinities; like how many integers or natural numbers there are in- in mathematics. The sheer size of these- these beings are defined as uncountable infinities. Despite logic telling us that there can't be anything larger in scale than… well… infinity.
Yeah, I know to the average layman that can't be possible. But it's very much true. These beings are represented by their "aleph numbers": numbers which represent the cardinality of infinite sets. Professor Hutchinson stated that such beings exist in these numbers and have been known to for quite some time

Tree of knowledge basically represents higher and lower existence where are the Elder Gods born and where the war took place:

In the time when The Tree of Knowledge was planted, all things were given form. Even the deep waters of the Darkness Below and the vaults of Darkness Above took shape and form, and many elder gods were born of them
This is where Ol' Jeremiah (one of the two of them, anyhow) first became aware of the war between the gods of the infinite worlds of creation. It's all very vast and terrifying and beyond our feeble mortal ken. Oh, I don't mean the endless insecticidal process of the gods dying and being reborn, I mean what the hell 'knuft' and 'thirt' are supposed to mean
Death said: “Aye, our domain is all things that exist within the shade of the Tree, and within its branches, and within its roots. You are wise, mortal. I will permit you to rest against the doorpost of the house of my brothers."

There is more but I think this is enough for now.
http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-5500

http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-5800

http://www.scp-wiki.net/lucky-dinosaur

http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-4555

http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-4755

http://www.scp-wiki.net/operation-overmeta

http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-3309

http://www.scp-wiki.net/acidverse

http://www.scp-wiki.net/chaoskampf-and-creation

http://www.scp-wiki.net/dust-and-blood

http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-3812

http://www.scp-wiki.net/vision-at-betar

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can use any fictional charater in fiction and create their own:

This here breaks our Crossover scaling rules. No franchise can use the feats from another franchise, since they have zero legal claim over them most of the time.

Afaik the rest at the best interpretation are High 1-B and 1-A on our site. Which isn't outlandishly massive, though it would be in the small percentage of franchises with a Tier 1 upper rating.

 

[Raizel]

This here breaks our Crossover scaling rules. No franchise can use the feats from another franchise, since they have zero legal claim over them most of the time.

Afaik the rest at the best interpretation are High 1-B and 1-A on our site. Which isn't outlandishly massive, though it would be in the small percentage of franchises with a Tier 1 upper rating.

Thank you for your answer now i understand why you scaled the verse from H1B to 1A since you gave reasonable arguments and debunked everything the post said applaus
Also the 2nd question as long as i remember stated "where you scale the verse and why"

Also the one who posted this also states that "Above Alpha Layer are infinite realities (scales to inaccessible cardinal):" and the alpha layer as far as i know shoud be at least baseline 1A? And isnt Inaccessible cardinal H1A so you not gonna answer that?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Thank you for your answer now i understand why you scaled the verse from H1B to 1A since you gave reasonable arguments and debunked everything the post said applaus

I wasn't trying to debunk anything? I just stated that this site doesn't use any "All of fiction" quotes for a tiering rating. Since if we did we'd end up having a lot of recursive Tier 0 universes.

Also the one who posted this also states that "Above Alpha Layer are infinite realities (scales to inaccessible cardinal):" and the alpha layer as far as i know shoud be at least baseline 1A? And isnt Inaccessible cardinal H1A so you not gonna answer that?

Nothing you posted fulfills the requirement of High 1-A. Higher degrees of infinity cannot reach that rating, but just outright transcendence over the system which you haven't provided the evidence of in this hypothetical composite cosmology.

 

[manu_zarri]

So if 5D ℵω logically 6D is above 5D then 6D can be scaled even higher and so on.

This alone proves that SCP works on LEVEL IV Multiverse and that every universe is described by different mathematical structures.

SCP Tier 0 lol

 

[Darksmash]

Give it up dude SCP isn't an obscure japanese visual novel it can't have the big tiers

 

[manu_zarri]

Give it up dude SCP isn't an obscure japanese visual novel it can't have the big tiers

on this wiki due to having a special treatament like DC and Marvel comics. SCP have already tier 0 feats, that obviously, aren't accepted here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

on this wiki due to having a special treatament like DC and Marvel comics

Marvel doesn't have any Tier 0 characters and the only DC Tier 0 character is incredibly controversial staff wise. The most leeway we give to comics is focusing mostly on their higher ends rather than their low ends or averaged showings.

 

[manu_zarri]

Marvel doesn't have any Tier 0 characters and the only DC Tier 0 character is incredibly controversial staff wise. The most leeway we give to comics is focusing mostly on their higher ends rather than their low ends or averaged showings.

Ok but where did you take that i said marvel and DC have tier 0 tho? i said SCP does, the special treatament is the power scaling rules + canon

 

[Qawsedf234]

I took your statement as meaning we favor DC/Marvel over SCP or are more harsh against it compared to those franchises.

In terms of canon SCP has specific rules due to how wide the author pool is for submissions.

 

[Rikimarox2]

on this wiki due to having a special treatament like DC and Marvel comics. SCP have already tier 0 feats, that obviously, aren't accepted here.

Might I ask, wtf are the tier 0 feats? I don't recall seeing any feats close to this level.

 

[manu_zarri]

I took your statement as meaning we favor DC/Marvel over SCP or are more harsh against it compared to those franchises.

I got a smile reading this, I'm not offending anyone btw. Im saying that DC/Marvel have a speical treatament, like a 1-A feat in DC will get assumed that's an outlier, while a vague stataments in a unknown light nover would be enough for 1-A. same thing with SCP

In terms of canon SCP has specific rules due to how wide the author pool is for submissions.

that's what im talking about.

 

[manu_zarri]

Might I ask, wtf are the tier 0 feats? I don't recall seeing any feats close to this level.

Want talk on messagge wall, to not derail this?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Send it on my message wall.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh hey, I remember debunking this one.

Foundation can look at the multiverse and see all possibilities:

Cool, but doesn't mean much tier-wise.

Can look at realities that hadn't been formed yet:

Same here.

Can create infinite number of multiverses:

This isn't them creating an infinite number of multiverses. That's them simulating them using energy they've pulled from big bangs across the multiverse.

Created all concepts, existing above standard conceptualization, transcended to living ideas(Tier IV):

This doesn't mean a lot without more context.

Contained every single SCP? (Tier V):

We don't allow these sorts of NLF-y composite-y statements. There's a dozen characters who have all claimed to have created everything, another dozen characters who have all claimed to have destroyed/nullified/contained all other SCPs/anomalies. You cannot use statements like this without creating contradictions everywhere.

By using SCP 3309 they can remove their own articles:

Yep, this is on their page on the wiki.

Can use any fictional charater in fiction and create their own:

I think this is too.

Can kill their own Authors aka SCP 001 - Database by using S.W.A.N.N. Engine:

And so is this.

Mutliverse who works on Transfinite induction something that goes beyond simple infinity and caps at Uncountable Infinity (ℵ1) :

Yep, uncountably infinite universes. This statement's about to be applied to the profiles.

Multiverse which scales to even beyond Uncountable Infinites and caps at Replaceable Uncountable Infinites (ℵω):

That's not the multiverse. We use that statement to scale certain character to 1-A. And I also have no clue why that's said to cap out at aleph-omega. It uses alephs as an analogy for how infinities can be reduced into simplicity, how simple things can contain everything. It only concretely establishes uncountably infinitely many dimensions.

5D is also Aleph Space:

So if 5D ℵω logically 6D is above 5D then 6D can be scaled even higher and so on.

lol, that's just a contradiction. Aleph-omega cannot be anywhere near 5-D. Hell, it's only being claimed as 5-D because the start of the article said that place was called "The Fifth Dimension", that's a pretty wack way to scale things. There is absolutely no reason to scale this to the last statement.

This alone proves that SCP works on LEVEL IV Multiverse and that every universe is described by different mathematical structures.

No, even if I accepted all the evidence at the rating that was claimed, that would not prove a Level IV multiverse.

There are numberless layers of existence (Ignore part about the Creator):

We don't use that tale; it has a barely positive rating and was written by a battleboarder that tried vandalizing 3812 to wank it, and has since abandoned the site.

Eveything here is just part of one layer narrative of SCP, there are possibly infinite layers (high end) before Alpha Layer:

There is nothing about there being "possibly infinite layers" before the Alpha Layer. That statement doesn't put the Alpha Layer any more than 1 layer above the main narrative.

So if One layer is ℵω and each layer is ℵωω and so on then Alpha Layer would probably be Replacement - Inaccessible Infinity (ε0, ignoring 5D scalling above).

Even if I accept your prior statements as being what you rated them at, that's not how math works.

Lets use now real math and composite scalling: if 5D is already ℵω from statements above, then 6D should be ℵωω, 7D ℵωωω and up to infinite D to be ε0 which is just one layer to unknown, but lets hypothetically say there are infinite layer so each layer is then ε1, ε2, ε3 and so on. Then Alpha layer should be Cantor's oridnial (ζ) etc.

Even if I accept your prior statements as being what you rated them at, that's not how math works.

Above Alpha Layer are infinite realities (scales to inaccessible cardinal):

That is not what that statement says at all. We do not know that 3812 is above the Alpha Layer, and we do not know that those infinite narratives are between 3812 and where he started. The could just as easily extend infinitely downwards, or infinitely sideways (as we know from a lot of other material that there's parallel narratives).

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

SCP have already tier 0 feats, that obviously, aren't accepted here.

I wanna know what they are

 

[Agnaa]

Give it up dude SCP isn't an obscure japanese visual novel it can't have the big tiers

I know you don't give a shit about the actual facts, but for those who do, there's only two tier 0 profiles that're from some obscure Japanese VN. Other than that you've got a western video game (2 profiles), a western TV show (3 profiles), a western series of novels (5 profiles), a western webfiction serial (1 profile), and a western comic (1 profile).

on this wiki due to having a special treatament like DC and Marvel comics. SCP have already tier 0 feats, that obviously, aren't accepted here.

Ok but where did you take that i said marvel and DC have tier 0 tho? i said SCP does, the special treatament is the power scaling rules + canon

Wait, so you don't want SCP to have any canon/power scaling rules? Good luck getting anything remotely coherent out of that.

Want talk on messagge wall, to not derail this?

I'm gonna respond to that thread here since it's also not very good evidence.

The first narrative is very different, at peak it's Low 1-A.

Ayy, we actually agree here.

The Hanged King Rules and has full control over Alagadda, the dimensional nexus of the multiverse in which all uncountably infinite higher and lower dimensions are unified into a single world in which all beings can interact with each other regardless of their dimension of origin.

It's extremely misleading to combine those statements. Alagadda's a realm where beings in the multiverse can interact regardless of their dimension of origin, it doesn't combine with a statement of "uncountably infinite higher and lower dimensions". It's pretty telling how you link a statement completely unrelated to Alagadda, of a dude holding a circle of metal (which can be held by an ordinary 3-D being), which on closer inspection doesn't contain "uncountably infinite higher and lower dimensions", but has its "vectors" with a notable tension in "uncountable spaces". The simple fact that such a small object supposedly holds all those higher dimensions in it should demonstrate that those "higher dimensions" aren't actually anything qualitatively superior, and are thus inapplicable for scaling.

If we can use Plato concepts for 1-A then probably it would kinda be more 1-A due to the creation including the very forms described by Plato, such as SCP 609

We can't use platonic concepts for 1-A. That idea was laughed at even 3 years ago, and we've made many strides since then.

WoG stated that SCP-3812 trascend SCP-2935, who could eventually kils everything, meaning he could kill SCP-2747

Here's what I mean by this cross-scaling to "destroy all SCPs" statements being contradictory as hell. If 2935 eventually killed everything, it would have killed 3812.

SCP-2747 can manifastate on any narrative, and SCP-3812 is scaling all of them, they are books into a TV into a light novel etc...
this is kind of High 1-A, and he will go higher.

That is not High 1-A, it's 1-A+, which is the end listed on 3812's profile.

But a point where everything stops is when there is the writers, the 001. actually the point itself is the Overvoid Lurk, which noobody can trasend, expect external events. since dosen't matter how much try, you can't trascend it, it's tier 0, and then there there are the writers, which are Above overvoid lurk, and then true 001 which are above the normal 001 (note that readers aren't 0, they are in existence tho)

The Overvoid Lurk does not remotely have any statement like that. The Overvoid Lurk and Swann are just other characters at another layer in the narrative stack, there's nothing demonstrating that they're above it. And even then, they would only be High 1-A.

 

[Darksmash]

I know you don't give a shit about the actual facts, but for those who do, there's only two tier 0 profiles that're from some obscure Japanese VN. Other than that you've got a western video game (2 profiles), a western TV show (3 profiles), a western series of novels (5 profiles), a western webfiction serial (1 profile), and a western comic (1 profile).

I didn't really specify I was talking about tier 0. Besides the statement was more about how these verses are generally treated than what their current tiers are

 

[Agnaa]

If we're getting to a level that vague, all I can really say is that I disagree.

 

[manu_zarri]

I wanna know what they are

Ok I will send in the wall

 

[Ovy7]

there's only two tier 0 profiles that're from some obscure Japanese VN

The funny thing with this is that the webseries at tier 0 (Unsong) seems to be way more obscure than the VN, and I also won't really call the VN obscure when it has one of the best selling VNs with dozen of spinoffs and like 10 anime adaptations. The only other VN that could be more popular (outside of stuff like Nekopara or meme-tiers like DDLC) would be Fate.

Off-topic, but meh, I was bored.

 

[Agnaa]

Meh, I was using their language. But this sparked some more off-topic thoughts that I'll dive into.

Eh, Unsong isn't that obscure of a web serial. It's the 14th-most popular, according to topwebfiction.com. For context, that puts Worm at about 5x as popular.

But at the end of the day, it's a moderately large fish in a really small pond. All other tier 0 verses are very well-known. Umineko less so, but as you say, it's one of the most popular VNs. Communities leaning towards hardcore weeb stuff, VNs, or Japanese mysteries will have it plastered everywhere. Unsong's the rarely-mentioned side-product of a moderately-successful blogger in a niche community (lesswrong/rationalists).

 

[manu_zarri]

now i just notice that someone answered to that stuff. so im going to answer to that.

The Hanged King Rules and has full control over Alagadda, the dimensional nexus of the multiverse in which all uncountably infinite higher and lower dimensions are unified into a single world in which all beings can interact with each other regardless of their dimension of origin.

It's extremely misleading to combine those statements. Alagadda's a realm where beings in the multiverse can interact regardless of their dimension of origin, it doesn't combine with a statement of "uncountably infinite higher and lower dimensions". It's pretty telling how you link a statement completely unrelated to Alagadda, of a dude holding a circle of metal (which can be held by an ordinary 3-D being), which on closer inspection doesn't contain "uncountably infinite higher and lower dimensions", but has its "vectors" with a notable tension in "uncountable spaces". The simple fact that such a small object supposedly holds all those higher dimensions in it should demonstrate that those "higher dimensions" aren't actually anything qualitatively superior, and are thus inapplicable for scaling.

well i start to say that i wans't really talking in wiki standards (Was talking in a other standards), i probably writed in the wall there. but whatever, I just maked the assumption taht it could, since, this will probably hurt someone, according to the scaling there is a composite cosmology. so after this great wank, you can also assume that the kigndom of alagadda's there was also those dudes.

If we can use Plato concepts for 1-A then probably it would kinda be more 1-A due to the creation including the very forms described by Plato, such as SCP 609

We can't use platonic concepts for 1-A. That idea was laughed at even 3 years ago, and we've made many strides since then.

well, as said above and in the wall message i wasn't talking about current wiki standards, and that I wouldn't revise them. let's say we are lucky enough not to say that 3812 is High 1-A because it only transcends one layer, this is legal in debates on sites like comicvine or any other place where characters are wanked to an unimaginable level. in reality true Platonists and false Platonists are pretty much the same thing, and are also about to be revised. but i was talking about the rat scaling

WoG stated that SCP-3812 trascend SCP-2935, who could eventually kils everything, meaning he could kill SCP-2747

Here's what I mean by this cross-scaling to "destroy all SCPs" statements being contradictory as hell. If 2935 eventually killed everything, it would have killed 3812.

well, the creator says that just because 3812 is on a higher metaphysical level, he cannot be influenced by O Death, anyways that's not cross-scaling, they are made by the same author, if that's what you mean by cross-scaling

SCP-2747 can manifastate on any narrative, and SCP-3812 is scaling all of them, they are books into a TV into a light novel etc...
this is kind of High 1-A, and he will go higher.

That is not High 1-A, it's 1-A+, which is the end listed on 3812's profile.

SCP-2747 can theorically manifestate on any narrative levels, this, theoretically, should also compromise the narratives that 3812 is traversing to reach the summit, described in the canonical article, as nothing above them. We could also use 001 for 3812 scaling, but it's hardly believable if you allow me.

But a point where everything stops is when there is the writers, the 001. actually the point itself is the Overvoid Lurk, which noobody can trasend, expect external events. since dosen't matter how much try, you can't trascend it, it's tier 0, and then there there are the writers, which are Above overvoid lurk, and then true 001 which are above the normal 001 (note that readers aren't 0, they are in existence tho)

The Overvoid Lurk does not remotely have any statement like that. The Overvoid Lurk and Swann are just other characters at another layer in the narrative stack, there's nothing demonstrating that they're above it. And even then, they would only be High 1-A.

so, i think there is somewhere in the canonical articles, like that book that had created some, but even if it weren't, we can imagine alpha layer as the real world (but it's not literally ours) where everything is fiction, and assume 3812 is still in overvoid lurk being that it is still on site. it would be easy to assume that High 1-A or similar would be possible

Btw, sorry for the answer after like 12 days

 

[Agnaa]

well i start to say that i wans't really talking in wiki standards (Was talking in a other standards), i probably writed in the wall there. but whatever, I just maked the assumption taht it could, since, this will probably hurt someone, according to the scaling there is a composite cosmology. so after this great wank, you can also assume that the kigndom of alagadda's there was also those dudes.

Yeah even if you assume that, from the way it's portrayed in that scene, it isn't applicable to scaling.

well, as said above and in the wall message i wasn't talking about current wiki standards, and that I wouldn't revise them. let's say we are lucky enough not to say that 3812 is High 1-A because it only transcends one layer, this is legal in debates on sites like comicvine or any other place where characters are wanked to an unimaginable level. in reality true Platonists and false Platonists are pretty much the same thing, and are also about to be revised. but i was talking about the rat scaling

idk what standards you're talking about. iirc the only other debating sites that use "1-A", "High 1-A", and "0" with definitions like ours are vsbw and websites copying that system. I don't think comicvine has those, OBD and WWW definitely don't.

well, the creator says that just because 3812 is on a higher metaphysical level, he cannot be influenced by O Death, anyways that's not cross-scaling, they are made by the same author, if that's what you mean by cross-scaling

I'm not saying that 3812 should be killed by 2935, I'm saying that we shouldn't assume that every single SCP, including ones that reside in higher narratives like Swann and 2747, were killed. Because from the context of the article, 2935 just affected stuff in that universe. The furthest we can take it is WoG that it killed SK, which I'm happy scaling 3812 above.

What I mean by cross-scaling is just "Taking all statements that all SCPs/anomalies/whatever were nuked at face value and reason to scale to literally every single SCP regardless of context or how much that ***** up the cosmology".

SCP-2747 can theorically manifestate on any narrative levels, this, theoretically, should also compromise the narratives that 3812 is traversing to reach the summit, described in the canonical article, as nothing above them. We could also use 001 for 3812 scaling, but it's hardly believable if you allow me.

I do agree that 3812 can eventually get above 2747's highest potential, but those are both future-based statements, but it ain't High 1-A.

so, i think there is somewhere in the canonical articles, like that book that had created some, but even if it weren't, we can imagine alpha layer as the real world (but it's not literally ours) where everything is fiction, and assume 3812 is still in overvoid lurk being that it is still on site. it would be easy to assume that High 1-A or similar would be possible

I don't think we should assume that the alpha layer is a different kind of narrative. Every narrative already sees all narratives below them as fictional worlds inside of them source 1 source 2. And 3812 is said to have ascended above its own author, which could be Swann or it could be someone random.

Btw, sorry for the answer after like 12 days

No problem buddy.

 

[Qawsedf234]

idk what standards you're talking about. iirc the only other debating sites that use "1-A", "High 1-A", and "0" with definitions like ours are vsbw and websites copying that system. I don't think comicvine has those, OBD and WWW definitely don't.

Comicvine doesn't have a solid or uniformly accepted system above universal besides "Multiversal" and "Multiversal with extra steps". Different users will bring up different systems but there isn't a consensus on which is correct and half the time the bulk of users get really put off by dimensional tiering.

 

[manu_zarri]

idk what standards you're talking about. iirc the only other debating sites that use "1-A", "High 1-A", and "0" with definitions like ours are vsbw and websites copying that system. I don't think comicvine has those, OBD and WWW definitely don't.
rat scaling, you can find it in some place, according to it, trascending 1-A is High 1-A. it's not necessary a site, can just be like the debates on instagram

I'm not saying that 3812 should be killed by 2935, I'm saying that we shouldn't assume that every single SCP, including ones that reside in higher narratives like Swann and 2747, were killed. Because from the context of the article, 2935 just affected stuff in that universe. The furthest we can take it is WoG that it killed SK, which I'm happy scaling 3812 above.

What I mean by cross-scaling is just "Taking all statements that all SCPs/anomalies/whatever were nuked at face value and reason to scale to literally every single SCP regardless of context or how much that ***** up the cosmology".

well, im not really sure about that, but either way, 3812 should eventually be above 2747, since we can assume that 2747 it can manifest in all planes, where 3812 transcends, and it can be possibly, because there is no effective limit to 3812, until it reaches the definitive peak or to be above everyone (which will be possible)

I don't think we should assume that the alpha layer is a different kind of narrative. Every narrative already sees all narratives below them as fictional worlds inside of them source 1 source 2. And 3812 is said to have ascended above its own author, which could be Swann or it could be someone random.
well, maybe we can scale them to 2747, with some luck, at least for make the 3812 scaling

 

[Teezar]

TOAA is meant to be teir 0

 

[Agnaa]

well, im not really sure about that, but either way, 3812 should eventually be above 2747, since we can assume that 2747 it can manifest in all planes, where 3812 transcends, and it can be possibly, because there is no effective limit to 3812, until it reaches the definitive peak or to be above everyone (which will be possible)

Oh 100%, but that's already on the profiles. 3812's a higher level of 1-A+ than 2747 is.

 

[manu_zarri]

Oh 100%, but that's already on the profiles. 3812's a higher level of 1-A+ than 2747 is.

Could we say possible high 1-A being that those narratives above the infinite ones do not have a limit and therefore it is possible that 3812 transcends all the possible extensions?

 

[Rikimarox2]

I doubt it. I already made a thread for that, and it wasn't enough to grant even a possibly. 3812 needs to have a feat where even if new stacks gets added into the narrative, he would still be above it.

With the current evidence at hand, it ain't enough. Sadly.

 

[manu_zarri]

I doubt it. I already made a thread for that, and it wasn't enough to grant even a possibly. 3812 needs to have a feat where even if new stacks gets added into the narrative, he would still be above it.

With the current evidence at hand, it ain't enough. Sadly.

well, the thread was about him not being H1A because he dosen't trascend all possible exetension, if we scale 001 to 2747, then we can get something for 3812

 

[Agnaa]

Could we say possible high 1-A being that those narratives above the infinite ones do not have a limit and therefore it is possible that 3812 transcends all the possible extensions?

The issue is that he'd still reach that by going through the hierarchy, and then continuing on once it ends. He isn't above the hierarchy, he'll just keep transcending it until he reaches the top, and then keep going.

You'd have to already be above any possible extensions of it, but because of the nature of 3812's ability, I don't think he'd ever get a superiority over narratives like that.

well, the thread was about him not being H1A because he dosen't trascend all possible exetension, if we scale 001 to 2747, then we can get something for 3812

I don't think we should scale 001 to 2747's highest potential, and doing that wouldn't help out 3812, since we only know that its "highest potential" is notable because of statements involving 3812.

 

[manu_zarri]

The issue is that he'd still reach that by going through the hierarchy, and then continuing on once it ends. He isn't above the hierarchy, he'll just keep transcending it until he reaches the top, and then keep going.

You'd have to already be above any possible extensions of it, but because of the nature of 3812's ability, I don't think he'd ever get a superiority over narratives like that.

i know that in order for reach High 1-A you need trascend any possible extension, 3812 stated that a day nothing would above them, that after all those passages of the narratives would have reached a point where nothing would have been above them, and we know that there will always be narratives above the others, also we know that if there is a narrative then there will be 2747, but 3812 theoretically transcends

I don't think we should scale 001 to 2747's highest potential, and doing that wouldn't help out 3812, since we only know that its "highest potential" is notable because of statements involving 3812.
the stataments that involves 3812 are about the cosmology tho

 

[Agnaa]

i know that in order for reach High 1-A you need trascend any possible extension, 3812 stated that a day nothing would above them, that after all those passages of the narratives would have reached a point where nothing would have been above them, and we know that there will always be narratives above the others, also we know that if there is a narrative then there will be 2747, but 3812 theoretically transcends

We don't know that there will always be narratives above the others, and even if we did, with the context of how 3812's ability works, that would just mean that 3812's transcendence outpaced the upward growth of narratives.

Once 3812's above the narrative stack, he can keep transcending himself, while 2747 can't really go above the narrative stack. I don't know how being above 2747 would make 3812 High 1-A.

the stataments that involves 3812 are about the cosmology tho

Yes but, what I mean is you're trying to say:

"2747 can reach any narrative, and there's infinite narratives, and 001-SWN is above that, and 3812 can go above 001-SWN, so 3812 is High 1-A"

But the issue is that from the way 3812's described, it caps out at some self-transcendence above the narrative stack. If you were to somehow scale Swann above 2747, I don't think you could say that 3812 is above Swann.

However, if the statements on the number of narratives were unrelated to 3812, such scaling would be more plausible.

 

[manu_zarri]

i know that in order for reach High 1-A you need trascend any possible extension, 3812 stated that a day nothing would above them, that after all those passages of the narratives would have reached a point where nothing would have been above them, and we know that there will always be narratives above the others, also we know that if there is a narrative then there will be 2747, but 3812 theoretically transcends

We don't know that there will always be narratives above the others, and even if we did, with the context of how 3812's ability works, that would just mean that 3812's transcendence outpaced the upward growth of narratives.

Once 3812's above the narrative stack, he can keep transcending himself, while 2747 can't really go above the narrative stack. I don't know how being above 2747 would make 3812 High 1-A.

im just like assuming that 3812 would a day above the all narrative stacks which we can suppose is more than infinite, an unknown degree tho, so "possibly High 1-A" come from the assumption that the unknown degree dosen't have limit, and 2747 can theorically manifastate on that levels, so if he trascends 2747 he get possibly High 1-A according to this.

However, if the statements on the number of narratives were unrelated to 3812, such scaling would be more plausible.

i don't get what you mean with that

 

[Agnaa]

im just like assuming that 3812 would a day above the all narrative stacks which we can suppose is more than infinite, an unknown degree tho, so "possibly High 1-A" come from the assumption that the unknown degree dosen't have limit, and 2747 can theorically manifastate on that levels, so if he trascends 2747 he get possibly High 1-A according to this.

That is nowhere near good enough for a possibly. We can't assume that infinite might also mean obscenely above infinite, especially without anything implying that.

i don't get what you mean with that

If 3812 just transcended everything including narratives, instead of being a character that transcends things by way of jumping up narratives, he'd be able to be rated a lot higher.

 

[manu_zarri]

im just like assuming that 3812 would a day above the all narrative stacks which we can suppose is more than infinite, an unknown degree tho, so "possibly High 1-A" come from the assumption that the unknown degree dosen't have limit, and 2747 can theorically manifastate on that levels, so if he trascends 2747 he get possibly High 1-A according to this.

That is nowhere near good enough for a possibly. We can't assume that infinite might also mean obscenely above infinite, especially without anything implying that.

i mean, im pretty sure that a classic assumption that sometimes we have in 1-A and abovep rofiles

i don't get what you mean with that

If 3812 just transcended everything including narratives, instead of being a character that transcends things by way of jumping up narratives, he'd be able to be rated a lot higher.

a day nothing will be above 3812

SCP-3812: But it hurts so much.

SCP-3812: It will, for a time. We may have forgotten so much about being human, but something we will never lose is our ability to change. Eventually, we will learn to keep up. One sunny day, we’ll open our eyes and see nothing but creation below us, and nothing above us but ourselves, spinning out wildly into the great above.

 

[Agnaa]

i mean, im pretty sure that a classic assumption that sometimes we have in 1-A and abovep rofiles

That's done when the superiority is of a different type, not when it's of the same type.

If you see a hierarchy of worlds that are each infinitely larger than the last, but still "real" to each other, as fiction, then you can reasonably be assumed to be above any extension of that hierarchy.

But 3812 is merely climbing a hierarchy and continuing to climb once it ends. His transcendence isn't of a different kind than what came before.

 

[manu_zarri]

i mean, im pretty sure that a classic assumption that sometimes we have in 1-A and abovep rofiles

That's done when the superiority is of a different type, not when it's of the same type.

If you see a hierarchy of worlds that are each infinitely larger than the last, but still "real" to each other, as fiction, then you can reasonably be assumed to be above any extension of that hierarchy.

But 3812 is merely climbing a hierarchy and continuing to climb once it ends. His transcendence isn't of a different kind than what came before.

I mean, 3812 can travel in those narratives, but not like it, like, he has to travel single by single narrative to get where he wants, i mean if he want reach the top which is infinitely trascendental to where he is, then he can just go there without traveling one by one

 

[Agnaa]

I mean, 3812 can travel in those narratives, but not like it, like, he has to travel single by single narrative to get where he wants, i mean if he want reach the top which is infinitely trascendental to where he is, then he can just go there without traveling one by one

idk why you believe that he can instantly jump to the top.