Scaling Ruby Rose's Sliver Eyes Attack Potency

[Community_Gamer]

@Damage3245 @Nico-v11 @WeeklyBattles

Now that we are down with irrelevant conversations, can we please discuss the topic of this post?

Alright cool. First off, hax can have AP. It is clearly displayed by Ruby when first used her eyes on The Apathy it only pushed them back not kill them. A clear indication that it isn't a one shot move that bypasses durability of all Grimm. It wasn't clear before because she turned the Wyvern to stone not VAPORIZE them. Which clearly shows that is has AP, this is not up for discussion. So, lets move to Cinder she was already part Grimm from when she infused herself with that Grimm beetle to steal Amber's power. Hence the tatoo she got afterward, and this is why she affected by the Sliver Eyes. Maidens aren't affected by the SE, Salem was refering to Cinder's Grimm arm not her maiden powers. HENCE the line of "continuing your treatment", which was learning to control the Grimm in her. It was pretty obvious when see them doing this later. AND finally how the SE affect different Grimm. It would be headcannon to assume that large Grimm can't be vaoprized but smaller ones can. Especially when Maria says these are abilities which means they conscious decisions AT LEAST when you hhave control over the SE. Ruby doesn't know how to distinguish between them yet like Maria. That and the horde of The Apathy should have more mass than the average Nevermore. Even if not, under occam's razor this is the most plausible explanation.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hax cant have AP

 

[Nico-v11]

Please read the hax page. Ignoring durability is hax by definition. Therefore IF hax had an AP then it would not be able to overcome a certain durability at some point which is something hax of course overcomes naturally.

I disagee with so much else you put but I'll leave it to someone else since I'm at a Christmas party.

 

[Community_Gamer]

@WeeklyBattles @Nico-v11

I am very aware of VSB's nortious definition of "hax". Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore one or more of an opponent's statistics and effectively render them irrelevant, such as soul-based attacks ignoring conventional durability.

So I'll steal man an use this definition. So what? This doesn't apply to Ruby at all. We see her use her sliver eyes on The Apathy initially and it was only pushed them back NOT kill them. So does this "ignore one or more of an opponent's statistics and effectively render them irrelevant"? No. By your own flawed defintion it doesn't even mean it is a hax at all. Maybe you guys should revise it. If you still don't understand then we can continue until you do.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The Apathy ... are you by any chance referring to the Grimm that move around in hordes and make people feel like nothing matters? Against a teenage girl whose hax requires her to feel strong emotions about protecting life? SE failing at first makes perfect sense seeing as the Apathy pretty much counter them. Without her friends present to almost die in front of her like another time, SE would have done jack all, inexperienced or not.

 

[Wokistan]

Just gonna note that there is stuff like soul manip that doesn't negate durability, so her silver eyes abiding by durability and AP shouldn't just be dismissed with "but it's hax".

 

[Wokistan]

However, if it does function like the kryptonite example above as an anti Grimm thing, then no you can't generalize that. If it's an anti Grimm weapon, to assume that it works with that potency on non grim is unfounded.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It is an anti-grimm/anti-magic/anti-evil power, its akin to magic nulling holy manip

 

[Nico-v11]

The only way you are ever going to consider that Silver Eyes has AP is to not even consider it to be hax and argue it to be a regular attack.

I mean what's even the basis for arguing Silver Eyes has AP? That Ruby barely hurt the apathy first time? Come on that only proves that she's a novice at Silver Eyes that wasn't focused and was being weakened by The Apathy. That's a failure to properly exert hax at its fullest potential instead of a low output of AP.

There's a clear difference there.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Let me explain. Ruby vaporizes/disinergates The Apathy, unlike the petriifcation on the Wyvern, it was a clear display of attack potency.

Attack Potency, using your definition, "an alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces."

Vaporization/Disinergation: :to convert from a liquid or solid into a vapor ; to break or decompose into constituent elements, parts, or small particles (Websters Dictionary)

Now the reason why her Sliver Eyes have some level of attack potency is, by your own definition, displaying "damage to characters that can withstand such forces".

To address the issues with my position:

1st. @Nico-v11 To begin, you are just spewing ad nauseam and the headcannon isn't making it any better. The only information we have on the Sliver Eyes is that they only affect Grimm as stated by Maria. They only work when you have the desire to protect your friends, they can turn Grimm to stone, blind Grimm, or vaporize them. All things stated by Maria, so where pray tell is this information that "Come on that only proves that she's a novice at Silver Eyes that wasn't focused and was being weakened by The Apathy" come from? There is no mention that Grimm can weaken her Light and if anything her eyes should be strong has Haven if not stronger since her OWN teammate was a mere feet away from her grasp.

The only things that distinguish a novice SEW (Sliver Eyed Warrior) and an experienced one is activation time, which is debatable, and choosing whether or not to blind, petrify, or vaporize. And maybe the radius of the light, but also debatable. That is all, anything else is headcannon so get that shit out of here.

2nd. @AnonymousBlank Do I really need to why your point doesn't mean anything toward the discussion? Guess so. You said, "SE failing at first makes perfect sense seeing as the Apathy pretty much counter them. Without her friends present to almost die in front of her like another time, SE would have done jack all, inexperienced or not". See this would be fine if we were talking theories, but we are not. Headcannon can wait ouside, there is no evidence of The Apathy weakening her Sliver Eyes in the slightest. To use the lore against you, Maria said in Chapter 8 that the SE come from the GoL, a gift to humanity counter then Grimm. This was after humanity was reset that they were given this gift meaning it'd be a huge leap inlogic to assume the Grimm found a way to negate them in any way. Especially when they yet to be fully explored. And The Apathy drain your will, so if Sliver Eyes channel the Light then that is a hard counter to The Apathy not other way around. And you it wouldn't have mattered if was experienced or not but Maria makes it sounds like she has dealt with them before and she would've known how to deal with it. Finally, you stated, "Against a teenage girl whose hax requires her to feel strong emotions about protecting life?" actually that isn't true. In Chapter 8, Maria says that Ruby should focus on creating state of mind to tap into rather than waiting for friends to be in severe danger. That and in Chapter 7, we see Maria do it on the spot without difficulty. Which also implies that your effectiveness, or strength in this case, with your eyes doesn't necessarily increase because you are more experienced. Since Ruby turned a larger and more powerful Grimm into stone when she far weaker than she currently is, and current Ruby should be weaker than Prime Maria.

3rd. @Wokistan It is only a hax by VSB's definition. And even when I abide by those definition for conveniency sake, they don't accept my explanations. And no it is not like Kryptonite for reasons I have already explained.

4th. @WeeklyBattles Okay. It is an anti-grimm ability. What is your point? That doesn't mean it lacks attack potency. Once again, I strongly urge Admins on VSB to revise that defintion but I'll make a thread about that later. You should consider what a hax does when attacking someone physically if their opponent is several tiers above them. And that hax hasn't be stated or shown the capability to harm someone far stronger than them. I digress though, just a thought.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't really think that calc is a good idea.

Ruby's bullets seem to vary heavily in thier effectiveness, and I don't think we can assume that the amount of energy required to vaporize a single Apathy is the same as the amount of energy required to vaporized a building.

Since the Silver Eyes can bypass durability when it petrifies the Grimm, I don't see why it can't also bypass durability when it vaporizes the Grimm too. So it wouldn't matter what the durability of the Apathy are.

 

[Nico-v11]

@Community Gamer

Let me explain something to you. What the show tells you and what it shows you may not correlate and that has been very common from the beginning. You may not be aware of that but let me explain:

1. Silver Eyes only affect Grimm. Yes this was clearly stated however it was also clearly shown that Ruby hurt Cinder extensively in the Volume 3 finale. You're argument was Salem saying "continuing your treatment" which means absolutely nothing. Salem continuing Cinder's treatment is the after effect of being harmed by Ruby. Salem also states that "it is because of the Maiden's power" which very clearly insinuates that Silver Eyes hurt Maidens. That is hard fact also backed by the fact that Salem has much more knowledge than Maria.

"How was it that a novice was able to best one of us?" Is a clear statement made by Hazel as to why a Silver Eyed warrior (novice) was able to beat one of them. To which Salem responds above. Rewatch Volume 4 chapter 1 and then come back.

Grimm do not weaken Silver Eyes obviously however you are forgetting that The Apathy have the power to weaken Willpower which has a direct correlation with emotions. This means that Ruby was very much getting her willpower sucked away and that of which powers her Silver Eyes, the willpower to save her friends was being depleted. Only when she completely focused was she able to actually kill the Apathy. When Maria was there teaching a novice how to truly harness the power instead of just being frantic about about it.

It's not headcannon at all. You just misinterpreted the whole scene.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I don't really think that calc is a good idea.

Ruby's bullets seem to vary heavily in thier effectiveness, and I don't think we can assume that the amount of energy required to vaporize a single Apathy is the same as the amount of energy required to vaporized a building.

Since the Silver Eyes can bypass durability when it petrifies the Grimm, I don't see why it can't also bypass durability when it vaporizes the Grimm too. So it wouldn't matter what the durability of the Apathy are.

Even if you Grand Stand that Ruby's bullets are inconsistent, which they aren't its just she uses different bullets, she has clearly been shown one shotting Beowolfs which makes up from the inconsistency. And I've already explained the Sliver Eyes, so I'd tather not again but the Wyvern wasn't completely petrified as stated by Tai Yang and Miles Luna. So this means that Ruby's most power showing again her most powerful opponent doesn't scale her as high as the Wyvern because she didn't finish it off. Meaning the Wyvern had a higher resistance to the level of Light Ruby released, thus showing her Sliver Eyes don't bypass durability. The Apathy were just more compelling.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Could someone paste the calc in a blog? It looks legit, but it's only going to be accepted if the calc is in a blog format so it can be evaluated and linked to the profile. Copy/Pasting the OP into this will be legit.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Could someone paste the calc in a blog? It looks legit, but it's only going to be accepted if the calc is in a blog format so it can be evaluated and linked to the profile. Copy/Pasting the OP into this will be legit.

Alright, so just any blog or is there something specific required?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It should preferably be a user blog here yes. We also sometimes Narutoforums calcs among other things, the blog could be anything as long it's appropriate. Though, also no punctuation in the blog's title.

 

[Community_Gamer]

So it just has to be in calculations thread. Okay can do.

 

[Kepekley23]

This is pure calc stacking.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I like to know how I am.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh yeah, Kepekley is right; you don't take durability of the targets and use it to stack vaporization multipliers. That would be an example of Calc Stacking. What you use for vaporization feats is the volume and heat capacity of the targets being vaporized. There's this calc for human vaporization, then you compare the size of the Apathy being vaporized to that of a human and the number of them of course. Assuming they're about the same size, vaporizing 11 of them would be 3.3 Gigajoules or 8-C.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I gotcha.