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Scaling AP to Striking Strength 2 (Staff only)
- Thread starter Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
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I don't really think Dark intended to imply any of those verses needed revising for sure, just ones to consider. We're all free to discuss and debate the ones that are good and which ones need revising. On topic, I saw Boros's thing about the collapsing Roar Cannon; while I can agree striking strength could be downgraded, his durability shouldn't be that much weaker than it. Yes, it's true he was killed by it, but that's because Saitama's serious punch repelled it with even more force than the initial attack, meaning what he actually got hit by was above baseline. And he was still able to breath and talk for a moment before he died. So if anything, his durability could be given an at most Planet level, but it really shouldn't be any lower than that.
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I'm fine having to recalculate a few verses and whatnot, but it'll be a bit difficult given the backlash regarding this.
I heavily agree with Matt that this is a case-by-case basis, if a character can perform a feat by a physical attack/casual move, I don't think they'd need to be slapped with the "it doesn't scale to stats" condition, which is contrasting what the blog is doing (Listing a lot of verses that scales to a storm/creation/ feat without context). Then again, the blog does mention something about MLP character's physically overpowering a storm being fine, so that definitely says it acknowledges this.
On the contrary, I can see people going against this due to having their favorite verses/characters downgraded based on identical feats. Likewise, I'm actually fine having to discuss/find new feats/recalculate stuff, so I'll post a few possible candidates here:
LEGO BOI (Catalog Heaven player): Scales to a feat where a sword sends a beam up into a sky to rotate the Earth. It's definitely possible to replace this feat with the one where the player rotates the Earth with the celestial staff due to performing it by simply waving rod around and actually performing attacks with it (Which would place them at 5-A, since it was calculated in the same blog with the other feats). If not, then I can probably do a few kinetic energy feats with the lightning wand (which is considered real lightning as per the blog) and some rocks.
TL;dr - another god falls from glory (unless the staff feat is accepted). Fortunately, I have an evil plan where I scale lightning speed to pushing a gigantic blocc that the player can tank without any injuries, so lego boi can probably smite a few one piece characters during his fall from glory.
Monster islands or whatever: Verse page nor' any character pages were created yet. Fortunately, I could probably replace the feat I'll be talking about in a moment with Malgorok'Zyth's swiping attack compared to the velocity of a meteor. As for the feat that would concern this thread, the Frostwing Centurion can create a blizzard with his presence or something on the lines of that. I think this would definitely warrant something on the lines of "possibly High 6-C" due to the fact that this is the same guy that's capable of summoning spikes of ice and freezing a bit of the area around him by simply slamming his hammer onto the ground, so there's a good chance that he could've caused it by physical strikes. Then again, nothing suggests it, so probably just High 6-C by environmental destruction. /e disappointment.
Terraria: God tiers scaled to the celestial towers pulling a moon, arguable that it could be done with a fraction of their power, so it's definitely up to debate. I'm not saying that definitely doesn't scale, but it's possible.
I heavily agree with Matt that this is a case-by-case basis, if a character can perform a feat by a physical attack/casual move, I don't think they'd need to be slapped with the "it doesn't scale to stats" condition, which is contrasting what the blog is doing (Listing a lot of verses that scales to a storm/creation/ feat without context). Then again, the blog does mention something about MLP character's physically overpowering a storm being fine, so that definitely says it acknowledges this.
On the contrary, I can see people going against this due to having their favorite verses/characters downgraded based on identical feats. Likewise, I'm actually fine having to discuss/find new feats/recalculate stuff, so I'll post a few possible candidates here:
LEGO BOI (Catalog Heaven player): Scales to a feat where a sword sends a beam up into a sky to rotate the Earth. It's definitely possible to replace this feat with the one where the player rotates the Earth with the celestial staff due to performing it by simply waving rod around and actually performing attacks with it (Which would place them at 5-A, since it was calculated in the same blog with the other feats). If not, then I can probably do a few kinetic energy feats with the lightning wand (which is considered real lightning as per the blog) and some rocks.
TL;dr - another god falls from glory (unless the staff feat is accepted). Fortunately, I have an evil plan where I scale lightning speed to pushing a gigantic blocc that the player can tank without any injuries, so lego boi can probably smite a few one piece characters during his fall from glory.
Monster islands or whatever: Verse page nor' any character pages were created yet. Fortunately, I could probably replace the feat I'll be talking about in a moment with Malgorok'Zyth's swiping attack compared to the velocity of a meteor. As for the feat that would concern this thread, the Frostwing Centurion can create a blizzard with his presence or something on the lines of that. I think this would definitely warrant something on the lines of "possibly High 6-C" due to the fact that this is the same guy that's capable of summoning spikes of ice and freezing a bit of the area around him by simply slamming his hammer onto the ground, so there's a good chance that he could've caused it by physical strikes. Then again, nothing suggests it, so probably just High 6-C by environmental destruction. /e disappointment.
Terraria: God tiers scaled to the celestial towers pulling a moon, arguable that it could be done with a fraction of their power, so it's definitely up to debate. I'm not saying that definitely doesn't scale, but it's possible.
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I want to clarify that i don't even agree all that much, i made the blog to list all the verses i saw with a particular feat, but i don't to say to quickly revise them, but to check them. If all the community is fine some listed verses to not be revised, i will be ok.
Note: We should write the requirements for why these characters fully scale like the interchangeble projectile and phisical attack thing or done casually if accepted.
Note: We should write the requirements for why these characters fully scale like the interchangeble projectile and phisical attack thing or done casually if accepted.
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I may be stating the obvious here, but if a storm or destruction feat was caused because a characters sneezed, burped, or farted, then it should definitely scale to all statistics. Silver Age Superman's 4-B sneeze for example easily requires his nostrils having Solar System level durability.
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Or breathed.
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Yes, cases like these obviously scale to physical stats. The stuff that scales only if there is evidence are AP feats performed with powers that aren't directly related to the character's strength in any form.
Telekinesis for example needs evidence in order to scale to physical stats
Telekinesis for example needs evidence in order to scale to physical stats
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Well telekinetics tend to use it in combat a lot.
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Of course. I'm saying that before it scales to striking strength the character should harm someone who can survive being slammed into the ground with TK with a punch.
For example Mega Alakazam has 6-C TK but its striking strength is "actually can't move via sheer strength" level because its muscles are atrophied
For example Mega Alakazam has 6-C TK but its striking strength is "actually can't move via sheer strength" level because its muscles are atrophied
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For a more extreme example of this, Malcador the Sigillite can move a moon with Telekinesis, and wields Solar System level psychic and magical power, but physically he's an old man who needs a walking stick (That changes when he amps himself with psychic power, though).Kaltias said:
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I want to say that we should not be like that towards Dark. It was I who told him to list all possibly affected verses to analyse case-by-case.
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I changed the lego boi profile I mentioned just recently based on a calculation I did that was accepted, so one profile is cleared up.
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Well, I did create the profile in question as well as perform the calculations for it, but if the guidelines as per this thread change, I'll see what can be discussed.
The swords either just shoot a beam into the sky and rotate the Earth without physically doing so nor' doing it with a casual (physical) action, it's basically a magic ability of sorts.
The only exception I can probably see for this being the Celestial Staff, given that the user rotates the Earth by waving the staff around in a circle (Which seems like a pretty casual action to me and is somewhat physical). I believe something like 6-B, likely 5-A could work, but I think we should settle on 6-B or whatever goes through in the end.
EDIT: I'm probably going to scale the Terra Warrior's Staff's boulders to lightning for kinetic energy rather than the giant block. While the block thing would definitely work in an environment where the profile is a "composite catalog gear robloxian" thing, it would be far from applicable in catalog heaven due to literally not having it happen.
The swords either just shoot a beam into the sky and rotate the Earth without physically doing so nor' doing it with a casual (physical) action, it's basically a magic ability of sorts.
The only exception I can probably see for this being the Celestial Staff, given that the user rotates the Earth by waving the staff around in a circle (Which seems like a pretty casual action to me and is somewhat physical). I believe something like 6-B, likely 5-A could work, but I think we should settle on 6-B or whatever goes through in the end.
EDIT: I'm probably going to scale the Terra Warrior's Staff's boulders to lightning for kinetic energy rather than the giant block. While the block thing would definitely work in an environment where the profile is a "composite catalog gear robloxian" thing, it would be far from applicable in catalog heaven due to literally not having it happen.
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When it comes to striking strength in general, striking strength is basically the direct application of force/energy (a physical strike) to something else; obviously, quantifiable energy is going to be involved.
So when it comes to evaluating feats that may/may not directly scale to his/her striking strength...
So when it comes to evaluating feats that may/may not directly scale to his/her striking strength...
- Can the actual energy of the feat itself be quantified in Joules? Application of energy towards a certain feat can be directly translated to application towards physical strength.
- If the feat itself (reality warping Universes, dimensions, and whatnot) cannot be quantified in terms of Joules, then this is considered a form of hax, and it should not be applied to striking strength.
- When the feat has been shown to be done with an external power source instead of his/her own power, it is logically correct that he/she cannot physically generate that amount of power on his/her own.
- For example, the Striking Strength for Warhammer characters can stay, as the majority of the feats there are done on his/her own without any external power source. Star Wars characters, however, need to rely on the Force (which is an omnipresent power source in that universe, which the Jedi/Sith draw power from) to perform feats, thus it is sketchy to say that his/her physical strength directly scales to their major feats.
- It is an exception when he/she has withstood physical blows from someone who is capable of doing a specific level of feat with his/her own power source, however.
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>2018
>Lina still trying to downplay Star Wars.
>Lina still trying to downplay Star Wars.
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Can't Star Wars characters legit draw energy from the Force and use it to enhance their physical attacks and durability? It's not much different than Dragon Ball characters using Ki for similar purposes. Also, while I do agree with Matt, I really think we should go easy on Lina; he's just stating his opinion and trying to help.
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Yes they can. Lightsabers even vary in power dependant on how strong their user is.
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gonna be honest I dont see how star wars character output star levels of striking strnegth.
Of course if they can enhance their physical abilities with the force (and do it on the regular) then they probably are Star level in striking strength and durability.
Of course if they can enhance their physical abilities with the force (and do it on the regular) then they probably are Star level in striking strength and durability.
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They need to use the Force to accomplish such feats. They are not that strong normally. But they can amp their physical stats and their Lightsabers with the Force.
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I have a question.
Say if a character is rated as 5-B in AP, and dura. But either Unknow, or 7-A in ST. How would this affect a vs match against a character with the same specs, save for their striking strength being 5-B?
Say if a character is rated as 5-B in AP, and dura. But either Unknow, or 7-A in ST. How would this affect a vs match against a character with the same specs, save for their striking strength being 5-B?
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Well, this is a staff only thread but, it would depend on case by case. The character with subpar striking strength could still use their ranged energy attacks and/or their hax if they have it. It wouldn't necessarily be a stomp in that regard alone.
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So then unless it's a specific or special case, it doesn't make that much of a difference in VS battles then? Okay, thanks for the answer.
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Mostly, you would be correct in saying that it enhances their physical attacks/durability, but what if the portrayals of their striking strength is contradicted by what is shown to us in terms of feats? Particularly the scenes where they can be shot/struck down by weapons of much lower AP.DarkDragonMedeus said:
Blaster bolts need to actually be dodged, and explosive weaponery can severely damage them as well.
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"Blaster bolts need to actually be dodged, and explosive weaponery can severely damage them as well."
This has nothing to do with scaling their Striking Strength.
This has nothing to do with scaling their Striking Strength.
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I believe Lina is talking about the fact that their durability would be lower, which invalidates Striking Strength scaling to it due to Newton's 3rd Law.
Completely neutral on this, just pointing that out.
Completely neutral on this, just pointing that out.
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Not how it works. Jedi and Sith can amp their Striking Strength and Durability with the Force. What they are without The Force doesn't matter.
Darth Sidious' Lightsaber was a Dark Side Nexus. And his mere hologram had more power than Count Dooku due to the sheer power he emanated. Luke Skywalker broke Abeloth's ribs, tanked her Force Lightning, and also has a scene where he amps his durability to the point where even the Supermassive Black Hole at the Galactic Center wouldn't affect him. Mace Windu used Vapaad and Force Valor to increase his strength. And before Lightsabers were a thing, all Force Users used regular swords which they enhanced by letting their Force flow through them.
Darth Sidious' Lightsaber was a Dark Side Nexus. And his mere hologram had more power than Count Dooku due to the sheer power he emanated. Luke Skywalker broke Abeloth's ribs, tanked her Force Lightning, and also has a scene where he amps his durability to the point where even the Supermassive Black Hole at the Galactic Center wouldn't affect him. Mace Windu used Vapaad and Force Valor to increase his strength. And before Lightsabers were a thing, all Force Users used regular swords which they enhanced by letting their Force flow through them.
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Yeah, sounds solid.
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- Thread starter
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In my opinion, yes, and start revision threads to discuss each possibly affected verse.
That's why I wanted Dark to make a blog.
That's why I wanted Dark to make a blog.
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