Scaling AP to Striking Strength 2 (Staff only)

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Continued from here.

So the conclusions from the last thread was:

Storm feats/Creation feats etc do not scale to physical strength, unless it is effortlessly done (breathing, thinking) or caused by physical force (slamming the ground)

What we have to do now:

Change the justification for ones that do scale to physical strength, like Zeus (DCEU) or Artemis (Riordan).

Change the striking strength and durability for those who do not scale to unknown or whatever.

Staff only

 

[Kaltias]

I thought that the agreement was that you need evidence that it scales to physical stats when it's via thought?

Kinda lost track of the thread after a while

 

[Antvasima]

"Please note that Striking Strength doesn't automatically scale from Attack Potency unless there are Feats suggesting otherwise. For example, if a character used their strongest energy blast to vaporize a city, it would only scale to their physical strength if they were able to harm opponents that can withstand the aforementioned energy blast, or vice-versa."

We should probably also add this to the Striking Strength page.

 

[Antvasima]

Btw: I moved this thread to the staff forum.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I thought that the agreement was that you need evidence that it scales to physical stats when it's via thought?

Kinda lost track of the thread after a while

Most people agreed with Matthew, who said effortless stuff should scale to physical strength. Eg Artemis brightened stars by breathing, when weakened and wounded.

 

[Kaltias]

I heavily disagree with effortless = scales to SS.

SS scales if there are reasons to do so.

Being casual isn't a reason, it simply means that your AP > the feat

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Kaltias makes sense.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I am neutral.

You can ask Matthew to comment here as he said that

 

[Dark649]

If a character is able to redirect the same amount of power into his physical attacks, it should scale.

 

[Kaltias]

You mean Matt's comment near the beginning?

He said that those feats scale to general AP as long as they aren't a super powerful technique above literally everything else.

Zeus' and Artemis' striking strength scales because they use melee attacks and energy attacks interchangeably, not because the feats are casual.

I could point you towards characters who perform feats passively while focusing most of their power into something else, whose striking strength still doesn't scale, because the verse doesn't treat their AP as equal to their SS

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

No, Matt said DCEU Zeus scales bc he created an island when dying.

No, Artemis doesn't create constellations and strike interchangebly, lol.

 

[Kepekley23]

I agree with Kaltias.

 

[Dark649]

I have three questions. 1] Does it apply to energy blasts? 2] If a character made a storm and no one took it, then it will scale only to ap?. 3] If a character put the same effort in a physical attack or a projectile as he made the storm/creation feat does it scale to Striking Strength [And Durability if someone took the attack]?.

 

[Kaltias]

@Spino

Weren't the Olympians using both physical attacks like arrows and energy attacks (Like Zeus' Master Bolt) against Typhon? Doubt that they'd do that if their physical attacks were <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< non-physical attacks.

Also if it's done by breathing it scales simply because generating energy via breathing is physical AP

@Dark

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) No. Doctor Strange exerting himself to punch you hard =/= 2-C punch.

However, if you hit a character with a energy blast and they survive, their durability = AP of your energy blasts.

At this point if you harm them with a punch, the latter is comparable to the durability

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

5-C is creating a constellation, not energy blasts.

 

[Dark649]

5-C is for creating a moon, High 4-C for a constellation.

 

[Antvasima]

I still agree with Kaltias.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

@Dark649 Greeks God do not literally creatr one, they just brighten existing stars.

 

[Kaltias]

5-C is creating a constellation, not energy blasts.

Creating the constellation scales to general AP because it falls under "stuff that isn't a super powerful technique above everything else".

The thing that needs to be proven is that it scales to striking strength, AP feats still scale to general AP

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Scaling energy blasts to a constellation feats sounds unreliable and headcanon.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

People really love this term headcanon...

 

[Kaltias]

You could say that about approximately every feat ever.

Saying that an actual attack where you put effort is > something that you do casually is just common sense.

The main reason why you need to prove that it scales to SS is because in fiction there are obvious cases of people whose AP >>>>>>>>>>>> their striking strength

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Therefore, "common sense" says SS has more effort

 

[Kaltias]

The main reason why you need to prove that it scales to SS is because in fiction there are obvious cases of people whose AP >>>>>>>>>>>> their striking strength

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And that is incredibly easy to identify 99% of the time.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I agree with Matthew. Each case needs to be looked at.

 

[Kaltias]

Anyway, I think that the two things that need to be added to pages are basically:

1) Super powerful finishing moves don't scale to general AP unless something points towards that (although maybe that should be a note on the AP page)

2) About scaling to SS, I think that Kep's wording is fine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

IIRC, most characters due still legit have their durability and striking strength comparable. to their AP. Pretty much every JRPG character is good since their physical attacks can do similar damage to their summons in Final Fantasy's case and most of them scale to end game bosses. But let's say there are Shaman like characters who can manipulate the weather but are just normal humans physically, they obviously are glass cannons who's AP doesn't scale to SS.

I also trust Matt's judgement for a lot of these verses.

 

[Antvasima]

I added Kepekley's suggested text to the striking strength page, and also restored a segment that had been accidentally removed:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Striking_Strength&diff=2718545&oldid=2563189

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Bump

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Btw Artemis's constellation feat isn't "not a super-powerful finishing move", it...isn't a move at all. It's just star-brightening.

 

[Golden_Void]

I agree with most of what Kaltias said.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

What do you disagree with?

 

[Golden_Void]

Personally I don't think AP should scale at all to physical stats unless proven otherwise. Storms, magic, all that stuff.

 

[Dark649]

With the finishing move regulation and Unite words most pages i know would end up with having Unknown in most stats [unless it is decided backward scale to them to weaker char. stats or something else] and thus subject to deletion.

 

[Kaltias]

Personally I don't think AP should scale at all to physical stats unless proven otherwise. Storms, magic, all that stuff.

I mean that's what I said.

@Dark

I really doubt so.

Even then as I said, accuracy comes first

 

[Golden_Void]

Well lifting strength is probably the most unknown stat. Range, speed, AP, stamina is easy. That just leaves striking strength and durability, which shouldn't be hard.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Accuracy comes first.

Unknown stats>>>>>>>>>Inaccurate stats

 

[Antvasima]

I agree about that inaccurate statistics are worse than unknown statistics.

 

[Dark649]

I agree about that inaccurate statistics are worse than unknown statistics.

Yes, i agree.