Saturn Black vs. Valev

[ThePerpetual]

Why is a magical hero dude fighting a happy-go-lucky revolutionary? Beats me, but I feel like doing some matches, so here we are regardless. I'm using the Dragon Mode key (fourth) for the former, and the World of Myths key (third) for the latter. Otherwise, Speed Equalized, SBA applies (including that the fight starting four kilometers apart in Central Park), etc.

Who'd win, you think? Be sure to supply your reasoning and so forth.

Saturn Black (Pre-Timeskip):

Valev:

 

[Moritzva]

Are we restricting Attack Mode? Since that would certainly help Saturn, although being slower would be a massive hinderance against Saturn.

Valev typical opens with some sort of banter alongside Kiri spam, attempting to figure out what his opponent does before going in. Of course, due to the gap, Valev probably first rushes in close to Saturn, then does this, as he doesn't range spam against unknown opponents.

Valev can compete with Saturn's various Modes with his own extreme amp alongside abusing Saturn's decreased stats, since he'd probably pick up on that sort of thing pretty quickly.

So, Saturn probably has a sizable AP advantage, but Valev has quite a sizable intelligence, skill, and versatility advantage, alongside amp that doesn't negatively affect his other stats.

Matter Manip. may be an issue, although Valev has plenty of counters to such an attack.

Also, speed equal sounds like a good idea here.

 

[ThePerpetual]

(I was in the process of editing that last bit in, yeah.)

 

[Spinoirr]

I'll wait until more people give reasons to who wins

 

[Moritzva]

I'll wait until more people give reasons to who wins

I mean, I'd give some insight on how your guy fights.

Given how the profile says Saturn rarely uses his Destruction Balls, I'll vote Valev. Valev's amp will give Saturn an extremely hard time, since Attack Mode would be unable to land a hit on Valev and Speed Mode would not do enough damage.

The Destructions Balls could help, but Valev has cloning and can destroy the balls with his power null.

Time stop is resisted, but Valev has plenty of other tricks up his sleeve.

To finish the battle off, the momen Saturn switches to Attack Mode, Valev will unload a massive amount of statistic reductions via Kiri and take him out, among other methods.

I vote Valev due to intelligence, skill, amp, and versatility.

 

[Spinoirr]

Saturn mostly doesn't use those because he doesn't like killing his foes and can make 200 speed clones that can all attack at once also the clones don't disappear when he turns on a different mode only when they hit or get hit

 

[ThePerpetual]

Just so you know, Spinoirr, stipulations against killing generally go away under the rules of Standard Battle Assumptions. Unless its for a reason beyond specifically "he doesn't like killing", I don't see why he would hold back from using it.

 

[Spinoirr]

Then he would use it, he normally goes all out from the start

 

[Moritzva]

It says on the profile he doesn't use destruction balls due to the massive amount of energy they take in that form.

Speed clones get countered by The Flames of The Consortium, as once he figures out what they do, he'll just constantly unleash a weak AoE to kill all of them. Plus, Valev likely outspeeds him in speed form anyway; his amp was enough to not only nearly blitz people similar to himself (He became nearly impossible to hit for a majority of his guild), but he also became faster than other people with similar speed amp.

 

[Spinoirr]

Even then Saturn's matter destruction is slower when used on a living thing like a person then him destroying matter of a non living thing, like a rock

So even if it hits him he still has time to beat saturn

 

[Moritzva]

How slow is it, anyways? Because Anamnesis Technique + defying death means I'm highly doubtful that, even with a direct hit, it would kill him.

Vote still for Valev, atm.

 

[Spinoirr]

Like slow as super manga gokus haikai

So yeah this would go to valev

 

[Moritzva]

That's a vote?

 

[ThePerpetual]

...Goku can Hakai?

 

[DMUA]

DBS manga goes places

 

[Moritzva]

DBS manga goes places

Vote plz

 

[ThePerpetual]

Ah, ye. Sorry, was just confused was all.

 

[DMUA]

No lol

yeets out of window

 

[Moritzva]

No lol

yeets out of window

Get back here, cretin

 

[Smashtwig]

commenting to follow thread, also Za Warudo gets resisted so... yikes

 

[Moritzva]

commenting to follow thread, also Za Warudo gets resisted so... yikes

We need one more vote to enter grace iirc.

 

[Smashtwig]

Okay first off Pixel, you can't just ASSUME that your guy's amp is better than someone else's (at least in the part that is being amped), to me that's an unfair argument.

"The Destructions Balls could help, but Valev has cloning and can destroy the balls with his power null." First you might have to explain how powernull even works. From what I remember Valev's Power Null (the crushing one right?) requires him to actually overpower the attack in order to negate it. Given that Destruction Balls are Saturn's most powerful attack, as well as Saturn having the AP advantage, that option would either take a lot out of Valev or not be an option at all.

"To finish the battle off, the momen Saturn switches to Attack Mode, Valev will unload a massive amount of statistic reductions via Kiri and take him out, among other methods." This argument really only applies if the Kiri actually hit, Saturn can just block the attacks, simple as that.

"I vote Valev due to intelligence, skill, amp, and versatility." Both have Weapon Mastery... can't even say he has the skill advantage, but the others are agreeable

 

[Moritzva]

His intelligence/age gives Valev the advantage in it.

As well, while I did admit his strength/dura amps were probably stronger than Valev's, I stated that his speed was likely moreso after looking over Saturn's profile. Although if Spin wishes to debate it, I would gladly engage in such a debate.

I apologize for rushing to a conclusion. It was based off of what I derived from the profile. Spinoirr, if you believe I was incorrect regarding speed amps, please correct me.

 

[Spinoirr]

Now Saturn has the ap advantage, defense advantage with his modes as his defence mode was able to handle attacks from wyvern form taiga who is baseline small country level, but this makes him weaker and slower and his attack mode just makes him slower so in attack mode he is large island level with island level derabilty

 

[Moritzva]

The AP advantage is useful... Except it comes at a cost of speed, which means he'll basically never be able to land a hit on Valev due to Valev's speed amp and Saturn's reduced speed.

The Dura advantage is useful (Assuming Valev doesn't put on Goliath Armor, which he has little reason to do), but Kiri can shut that down as well. So yea.

 

[Smashtwig]

For the first part, it depends on how much slower, if it's not that bad, Saturn can still definitely keep up

For your Kiri stuff, Defense Mode has the Barriers to block the attacks of them, so the DuraReduce isn't gonna work because it didn't land and deal damage

 

[Spinoirr]

the lowering of speed isn't that bad as he was still some what able to keep up with taiga who is faster then him with speed mode and he swiched to attack mode and he was still able to land some hits so the drop of speed isnt that bad

 

[Moritzva]

Well, considering that they start at equal speed, and Valev amps much higher than his base while Attack Mode leaves Saturn slower...

If Saturn is slower than base, while Valev is much higher than base, then of course Valev has the advantage. While the constantly switching could give him issues, overall, it's not something he can't play around.

Defense Mode's barriers have different issues, although Kiri's Dura Reduce can also apply to the barriers and make them easier to break through (Assuming they work like a normal object and aren't some esoteric thing, correct me if I am wrong).

It's a close fight, but considering Saturn's AP advantage will be hard to abuse due to the speed and experience gap, I think Valev wins more times than not, especially when there's multiple clones of him all doing the same thing.

 

[Moritzva]

@Spinoirr How does Saturn usually attack? What are his normal methods of attack?

 

[Spinoirr]

He normally senses if his foe is stronger then him and goes to speed mode then to attack mode the moment he is going to land a hit and if they attack he swaps to defence mode

 

[Moritzva]

In that case, yea, Valev takes this. Valev's mid-ranged Kiri spam and speed amp would be very effective against that sort of strategy, and eventually Valev will just combo down Saturn.

 

[Moritzva]

He normally senses if his foe is stronger then him and goes to speed mode then to attack mode the moment he is going to land a hit and if they attack he swaps to defence mode

Also, how exactly does his Reactive work?

 

[Spinoirr]

His reactive works is that he gets stronger and faster the longer he fights

 

[Moritzva]

Right, but how much faster/stronger?

 

[Spinoirr]

Well its like a saiyan's reactive, just with out the gets stronger when healed from near death

 

[DMUA]

They're mostly asking the rate of development

Though, I suppose that doesn't matter if Saturn basically needs the fight to be over to actually make use of it.

 

[Moritzva]

I haven't exactly heard much about Saiyans amping several tiers above with Reactive, so yea, Valev takes this.

 

[DMUA]

Well, Vegeta went from like 5-A to high end High 5-A, so that's something

but they aren't Saturn

 

[Moritzva]

Well, Vegeta went from like 5-A to high end High 5-A, so that's something

but they aren't Saturn

This. Especially when nothing of the sort is on the profile.

So.. Any arguments for Saturn? Since all we need is votes at this point.

 

[DMUA]

Either way Valev for reasons above