ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
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Goofy ass skeleton beats Low 2-C
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Sans vs Golden Frieza
- Thread starter Pizzabox492
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball frieza sans undertale
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- 1,566
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ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
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Teleportation varies. Some characters just teleport themselfs around but some characters use it in a different way and in this case its sans who uses it in a different way also yeah sans doesn't have a sign he can predict
Except for the fact that Freeza can sense his energy move instantly? As in, if Sans appears behind him Freeza can pretty much instantly respond without even looking.
That is an arguement because if sans can't kill freeza fast then freeza can just use one of his abilities to kill sans or blow him up. Sans kills frisk who has soul resistance and high durability (They take soul attacks as normal attacks) but sans was still able to kill them fast so yeah sans can kill freeza with 2 hits or just a few seconds in a bone.
A few seconds is an eternity if we're going by DB standards. A few seconds in the ToP is easily a few minutes of continual fighting and talking in real time.
Yeah but sans just slams him down after dodging and danmakus him he can't just dodge them while also attacking sans since sans danmaku is extremely weird and unpredictable
And why can't Freeza dodge them? Speed is equalised, Freeza can sense energy which should also include detecting Sans' attacks no matter what direction they come from. And Sans has no giant AoE explosions covering the screen, just a lot of beam spam. You are also assuming Freeza won't get enraged by being forced down while blasted and won't just power up his aura to try and kill Sans.
Which one? You mean thought based thing? He never uses his hands and just teleports which I assume is thought based
When does Sans instinctively teleport out of attacks?
He would be surprised seeing this random skeleton with a weak ass Ki slammed him down and nearly one shotted him with an attack. Yeah he would fight back attack sans a few times nearly hitting sans before getting hit again and dying
Again, why would he be surprised? He has seen endless things by this point in his career. He has also obviously encountered undetectable or weak kis (Android 17, would have seen the Trio De Dangers, Jiren who has extreme energy control). He's well aware people like that exist. I also don't really think he will care about a skeleton when he's been to Hell and tormented by faeries and walking talking plush toys.
You also keep saying Sans will 'nearly one shot' Freeza, but why? Are you assuming Freeza can't react at all? If you think the gravity manipulation means anything I think you're forgetting the entire ToP where Freeza was forced to fight without access to flight and had his gravity manipulated by the Grand Priest. He knows those abilities exist. Then there is also the part where Sans and Freeza both have unknown LS, so how exactly are we factoring that into Freeza enduring gravity manipulation? We don't even have a defined limit for him.
How will it be impossible? 2 hits is enough to kill freeza and frisk who came back with reset who knows everything about sans can't even dodge, are we assuming he would somehow know sans can't escape telekinesis and not use his other million power
Because this entire argument is built on Freeza standing still while drooling. Even though Freeza has actively dodged fodder in the past. I also don't know why you think Freeza wouldn't even attempt telekinesis even though he tried it on GoD Toppo to paralyse him and throw rocks at him, or when he smashed Jiren with rocks via telekinesis while being relentlessly attacked. It's in character for him to use Telekinesis on stronger opponents.
I was saying its burst damage since sans does the DoT damage EXTREMELY fast this is the reason sans wins most of his matches by killing the opponent extremely fast
You keep saying 'extremely fast'. Do you have a measurement for that? How many times do you think Freeza can shoot his Death Beam in that timeframe? How many times do you think Sans can dodge city-level explosions in that timeframe?
For the last time no one is saying sans oneshots. We can't really scale it so its just assumed sans kills people who aren't like frisk extremely fast
And I am questioning what 'extremely fast' means. What is the metric here? What do we measure how long Freeza survives? How much HP does Freeza have?
Karma is like I said fanon its just KR. I think you also forgot sans was able to destroy chara and frisk who have insane LOVE anyways thats like I said doesn't work and would break every UT match ever
Insane LOVE? Freeza has blown up entire worlds unprovoked. He has slaughtered countless innocent lives. Even if we only counted Planet Vegeta, how many innocent infants do you think he killed? I'd wager a hell of a lot more than Frisk and Chara ever have. It also doesn't 'break every UT match ever', it just calls into question how character alignment should factor in to verse equalisation with SOUL's scaling on LOVE.
Oh my god like I said I don't make the rules bruv its just that way we don't assume characters level up because they have never shown their soul leveling up its most likely only applies to UT but sans bypasses it anyway
Why are you getting frustrated? This is really basic information to get out of the way for the match to even function. It's a part of SBAs, we have to argue how the verses equalise to rationalise how this even goes down. This is a case-by-case basis deal.
Uhh okay? Go make a crt then
Since when did this require making CRTs? We're arguing verse equalisation in the case of DB vs UT right here to settle how it logically works. That's how every single argument I've ever been in on this website has worked. One party raises a case on how it equalises, the other raises a different interpretation. That's often how matches are even decided, rationalising the equalisation of verses.
Seriously, engage with me here. Does LOVE function on Magic or Determination or anything else? Or is it just bodycount? Is there any reason other verses wouldn't be allowed this as an argument? The entire reason equalisation even works is so abilities using similar systems across verses can work against eachother. So if two verses have souls and one verse states "We use soul hax to kill others. The more people you have killed, the harder it is to be killed by this soul hax." we would have to rationalise whether or not this is from a special ability or if it should apply to any character with a high kill count fighting a character from that verse.
Except for the fact that Freeza can sense his energy move instantly? As in, if Sans appears behind him Freeza can pretty much instantly respond without even looking.
That is an arguement because if sans can't kill freeza fast then freeza can just use one of his abilities to kill sans or blow him up. Sans kills frisk who has soul resistance and high durability (They take soul attacks as normal attacks) but sans was still able to kill them fast so yeah sans can kill freeza with 2 hits or just a few seconds in a bone.
A few seconds is an eternity if we're going by DB standards. A few seconds in the ToP is easily a few minutes of continual fighting and talking in real time.
Yeah but sans just slams him down after dodging and danmakus him he can't just dodge them while also attacking sans since sans danmaku is extremely weird and unpredictable
And why can't Freeza dodge them? Speed is equalised, Freeza can sense energy which should also include detecting Sans' attacks no matter what direction they come from. And Sans has no giant AoE explosions covering the screen, just a lot of beam spam. You are also assuming Freeza won't get enraged by being forced down while blasted and won't just power up his aura to try and kill Sans.
Which one? You mean thought based thing? He never uses his hands and just teleports which I assume is thought based
When does Sans instinctively teleport out of attacks?
He would be surprised seeing this random skeleton with a weak ass Ki slammed him down and nearly one shotted him with an attack. Yeah he would fight back attack sans a few times nearly hitting sans before getting hit again and dying
Again, why would he be surprised? He has seen endless things by this point in his career. He has also obviously encountered undetectable or weak kis (Android 17, would have seen the Trio De Dangers, Jiren who has extreme energy control). He's well aware people like that exist. I also don't really think he will care about a skeleton when he's been to Hell and tormented by faeries and walking talking plush toys.
You also keep saying Sans will 'nearly one shot' Freeza, but why? Are you assuming Freeza can't react at all? If you think the gravity manipulation means anything I think you're forgetting the entire ToP where Freeza was forced to fight without access to flight and had his gravity manipulated by the Grand Priest. He knows those abilities exist. Then there is also the part where Sans and Freeza both have unknown LS, so how exactly are we factoring that into Freeza enduring gravity manipulation? We don't even have a defined limit for him.
How will it be impossible? 2 hits is enough to kill freeza and frisk who came back with reset who knows everything about sans can't even dodge, are we assuming he would somehow know sans can't escape telekinesis and not use his other million power
Because this entire argument is built on Freeza standing still while drooling. Even though Freeza has actively dodged fodder in the past. I also don't know why you think Freeza wouldn't even attempt telekinesis even though he tried it on GoD Toppo to paralyse him and throw rocks at him, or when he smashed Jiren with rocks via telekinesis while being relentlessly attacked. It's in character for him to use Telekinesis on stronger opponents.
I was saying its burst damage since sans does the DoT damage EXTREMELY fast this is the reason sans wins most of his matches by killing the opponent extremely fast
You keep saying 'extremely fast'. Do you have a measurement for that? How many times do you think Freeza can shoot his Death Beam in that timeframe? How many times do you think Sans can dodge city-level explosions in that timeframe?
For the last time no one is saying sans oneshots. We can't really scale it so its just assumed sans kills people who aren't like frisk extremely fast
And I am questioning what 'extremely fast' means. What is the metric here? What do we measure how long Freeza survives? How much HP does Freeza have?
Karma is like I said fanon its just KR. I think you also forgot sans was able to destroy chara and frisk who have insane LOVE anyways thats like I said doesn't work and would break every UT match ever
Insane LOVE? Freeza has blown up entire worlds unprovoked. He has slaughtered countless innocent lives. Even if we only counted Planet Vegeta, how many innocent infants do you think he killed? I'd wager a hell of a lot more than Frisk and Chara ever have. It also doesn't 'break every UT match ever', it just calls into question how character alignment should factor in to verse equalisation with SOUL's scaling on LOVE.
Oh my god like I said I don't make the rules bruv its just that way we don't assume characters level up because they have never shown their soul leveling up its most likely only applies to UT but sans bypasses it anyway
Why are you getting frustrated? This is really basic information to get out of the way for the match to even function. It's a part of SBAs, we have to argue how the verses equalise to rationalise how this even goes down. This is a case-by-case basis deal.
Uhh okay? Go make a crt then
Since when did this require making CRTs? We're arguing verse equalisation in the case of DB vs UT right here to settle how it logically works. That's how every single argument I've ever been in on this website has worked. One party raises a case on how it equalises, the other raises a different interpretation. That's often how matches are even decided, rationalising the equalisation of verses.
Seriously, engage with me here. Does LOVE function on Magic or Determination or anything else? Or is it just bodycount? Is there any reason other verses wouldn't be allowed this as an argument? The entire reason equalisation even works is so abilities using similar systems across verses can work against eachother. So if two verses have souls and one verse states "We use soul hax to kill others. The more people you have killed, the harder it is to be killed by this soul hax." we would have to rationalise whether or not this is from a special ability or if it should apply to any character with a high kill count fighting a character from that verse.
ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
- 3,659
Why would sans just teleport behind him? Just because he knows where attacks will be doesn’t mean he can dodge them. Frisk knew what would happen but couldn’t dodge it, you also forget gaster blasters are faster than both of them right now.
I said a few seconds for us humans lmao its probably a smaller than seconds in this debate
Gaster blasters are faster than both of them. Telekinesis also
He dodged an attack while sleeping and he will teleport if he can’t just slide to the right
Like the other person said sans is much different than other DB characers
One shotting and LS or gravity manip has nothing to do with it? I already told you why sans kills him fast
We are not saying he is gonna stand there we are saying he can’t dodge sans danmaku while getting thrown around and gravity manipped and teleported and you saying Freeza will attack while dodging all of that
We can’t measure that its a pixel game. Sans will just kill him quickly and if freeza focuses o hitting sans instead of dodging then he will die even faster
Just fast lol he will die pretty fast compared to frisk not one shot but fast
20 LOVE is max lol so nope
Because you keep asking me the stuff you should talk in CRTs
Because you are going out of this fight to talking if undertale matches need LOVE added to them or KARMA
LOVE is weird since it seemed to work on undertale humans only so we can’t say that it would work on other humans in fiction. Humans in UT are universal at base (lol). Sans literally ignores that, the whole point of sans fight is that he ignores all your durability and health
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don't see how this i relevant, the yardrat has an indication for when he will teleport, sans does not, plus with sans just teleporting freeza himself into his attacks, freeza has not shown to be able to adapt quickly to that
Perhaps? But Sans' first move only involves one teleport of his target, and that's pulling them down into bones not spam, along with that he doesn't use that ability too often earlier into a fight (using his boss fight as my source here for what he would do). Sans does also telegraph his telekinesis at least, something that should be noted.
yeah, sans just can kill easier and faster than freeza, this and sans having higher reactions to dodge freeza's attacks and having a way to just make freeza get hit, aka teleporting freeza himself into the attacks, this an also the gaster balster being even faster than sans himself and freeza in this instance since speed is equalized
It doesn't seem to be IC for Sans to spam teleports earlier into the fight. Also, Ki attacks scale above the user. That's kind of the point of even using them. Death Beam in particular is built for speed with its rapid fire rate.
this is assuming he is going to live this long and that sans wouldn't just attack back + teleport freeza into the attacks + teleport freeza's attacks away from him
And that's assuming Sans lives long enough to do all of that. And, when does Sans teleport attacks away from himself? Seriously I keep seeing people say this but all he ever does is physically dodge. Has it ever been shown this is even an application?
something like what?
Something like Sans using teleportation in combat to avoid attacks.
shown me anyone in db that can slam you down, teleport and trow numerous projectiles, all with seconds of difference, and consecutively
Every single character that can teleport in Dragon Ball. Even Goku himself, the person Freeza focuses the most on.
why would he need to? the moment of his attacks hit he is going to damage freeza's soul and poison it with KR, and then combined with the other dozens he trows at the same time, it is not likely that freeza lives long enough to get mad
Again, this type of argument is all built on the idea that Freeza just stands there and dies without even trying to dodge or attack back as well as the idea that Freeza apparently has turtle reflexes preventing him from getting naturally angry from being slammed around. Even though Freeza has actively fought way faster opponents than himself and was able to react just fine.
it is both, he ignores durability and ads poison effect to the soul, to a being who resists soul manipulation attacks in the first place, freeza would fall even easier, within seconds of being in sans's attacks
How much damage does Sans do without KR's DoT.
since sans does not care about that at all, he straight up ignores your stats
That...doesn't even make sense in the context of what you quoted.
the max LOVE in undertale is 20, so if you want to equalize that is how much freeza would have
Which is more than enough for Freeza to survive numerous attacks by simply moving and reacting like the fighter he is. Which also gives him time to reconsider his options or, say, get pissed and blow up the entire mountain.
Perhaps? But Sans' first move only involves one teleport of his target, and that's pulling them down into bones not spam, along with that he doesn't use that ability too often earlier into a fight (using his boss fight as my source here for what he would do). Sans does also telegraph his telekinesis at least, something that should be noted.
yeah, sans just can kill easier and faster than freeza, this and sans having higher reactions to dodge freeza's attacks and having a way to just make freeza get hit, aka teleporting freeza himself into the attacks, this an also the gaster balster being even faster than sans himself and freeza in this instance since speed is equalized
It doesn't seem to be IC for Sans to spam teleports earlier into the fight. Also, Ki attacks scale above the user. That's kind of the point of even using them. Death Beam in particular is built for speed with its rapid fire rate.
this is assuming he is going to live this long and that sans wouldn't just attack back + teleport freeza into the attacks + teleport freeza's attacks away from him
And that's assuming Sans lives long enough to do all of that. And, when does Sans teleport attacks away from himself? Seriously I keep seeing people say this but all he ever does is physically dodge. Has it ever been shown this is even an application?
something like what?
Something like Sans using teleportation in combat to avoid attacks.
shown me anyone in db that can slam you down, teleport and trow numerous projectiles, all with seconds of difference, and consecutively
Every single character that can teleport in Dragon Ball. Even Goku himself, the person Freeza focuses the most on.
why would he need to? the moment of his attacks hit he is going to damage freeza's soul and poison it with KR, and then combined with the other dozens he trows at the same time, it is not likely that freeza lives long enough to get mad
Again, this type of argument is all built on the idea that Freeza just stands there and dies without even trying to dodge or attack back as well as the idea that Freeza apparently has turtle reflexes preventing him from getting naturally angry from being slammed around. Even though Freeza has actively fought way faster opponents than himself and was able to react just fine.
it is both, he ignores durability and ads poison effect to the soul, to a being who resists soul manipulation attacks in the first place, freeza would fall even easier, within seconds of being in sans's attacks
How much damage does Sans do without KR's DoT.
since sans does not care about that at all, he straight up ignores your stats
That...doesn't even make sense in the context of what you quoted.
the max LOVE in undertale is 20, so if you want to equalize that is how much freeza would have
Which is more than enough for Freeza to survive numerous attacks by simply moving and reacting like the fighter he is. Which also gives him time to reconsider his options or, say, get pissed and blow up the entire mountain.
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Why would sans just teleport behind him? Just because he knows where attacks will be doesn’t mean he can dodge them. Frisk knew what would happen but couldn’t dodge it, you also forget gaster blasters are faster than both of them right now.
All of that is nonsense. I never said Sans would 'just' teleport behind him. You also ignore the part where most of Sans' attacks are extremely linear besides the long corridor segment. You are out of your mind if you think Freeza couldn't react to any of that. Along with that, Freeza has reacted to people dozens of times faster than him. What makes you think he can't dodge straight lasers on reaction?
Gaster blasters are faster than both of them. Telekinesis also
And Freeza has consistently reacted to people faster than him. Particularly Dyspo who has linear movements just like the lasers from the Gaster Blasters. Ki attacks also scale above the user and are logically faster than Sans.
He dodged an attack while sleeping and he will teleport if he can’t just slide to the right
That's headcanon. He has never dodged an attack by teleporting.
Like the other person said sans is much different than other DB characers
No he isn't.
One shotting and LS or gravity manip has nothing to do with it? I already told you why sans kills him fast
Actually, you haven't. Freeza also has unknown LS and logically your LS correlates with the gravity you can withstand. Meaning there is no context for how effective Gravity Manipulation is here. You also haven't made any compelling arguments for Sans 'kills him fast' . Seriously, getting brushed by KR isn't going to kill Freeza and you are all assuming Freeza somehow can't dodge and react to Sans' attacks on the premise of teleportation (something Sans rarely uses early into the fight) and Gaster Blasters being faster (when Freeza has reacted to faster attacks and opponents and his own attacks are faster than Sans as well)
We can’t measure that its a pixel game. Sans will just kill him quickly and if freeza focuses o hitting sans instead of dodging then he will die even faster
Oh so you have zero argument for the timeframe Sans can kill Freeza. You just arbitrarily assume Freeza will get razed to death despite his decades of experience, mental training, ki sensing and ability to fight opponents much faster than him.
20 LOVE is max lol so nope
With the limited number of kills. Chara pretty clearly wants to pursue more LV in the ending of the Genocide route, meaning it can actually go beyond that.
Because you keep asking me the stuff you should talk in CRTs
This isn't CRT stuff. It's just basic verse equalisation. I'm inquiring about the logic of that verse so we can equalise with the other verse so the match makes sense. That's how battleboarding works. That's how the rules work. Adding in notes to verse pages and whatnot only occur in special circumstances, otherwise it's just case-by-case arguments. If this wasn't raised in past UT matches then that just means the arguments in past UT matches were poor quality and didn't equalise the verses properly.
Because you are going out of this fight to talking if undertale matches need LOVE added to them or KARMA
I'm asking basic information about how basic mechanics in UT's power system functions. How am I going 'out of this fight' to ask how one character's abilities will work under verse equalisation?
LOVE is weird since it seemed to work on undertale humans only so we can’t say that it would work on other humans in fiction. Humans in UT are universal at base (lol). Sans literally ignores that, the whole point of sans fight is that he ignores all your durability and health
That doesn't really answer the question. Why does LOVE work against UT Humans? Well, maybe because it enhances your SOUL-based damage? Your AT increases with LV doesn't it? So the basic conclusion is that more LV = more power. Freeza obviously can't use LV to attack souls and whatnot since he lacks Soul Manipulation but he should still be harder to kill inherently since UT Monsters have a harder time killing high LV opponents (due to their passively higher hit points).
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I'm leaving it at that. I feel like we're going in circles now and I gotta go offline anyways. Keeping my vote to Freeza. Was nice debating with you.
All of that is nonsense. I never said Sans would 'just' teleport behind him. You also ignore the part where most of Sans' attacks are extremely linear besides the long corridor segment. You are out of your mind if you think Freeza couldn't react to any of that. Along with that, Freeza has reacted to people dozens of times faster than him. What makes you think he can't dodge straight lasers on reaction?
Gaster blasters are faster than both of them. Telekinesis also
And Freeza has consistently reacted to people faster than him. Particularly Dyspo who has linear movements just like the lasers from the Gaster Blasters. Ki attacks also scale above the user and are logically faster than Sans.
He dodged an attack while sleeping and he will teleport if he can’t just slide to the right
That's headcanon. He has never dodged an attack by teleporting.
Like the other person said sans is much different than other DB characers
No he isn't.
One shotting and LS or gravity manip has nothing to do with it? I already told you why sans kills him fast
Actually, you haven't. Freeza also has unknown LS and logically your LS correlates with the gravity you can withstand. Meaning there is no context for how effective Gravity Manipulation is here. You also haven't made any compelling arguments for Sans 'kills him fast' . Seriously, getting brushed by KR isn't going to kill Freeza and you are all assuming Freeza somehow can't dodge and react to Sans' attacks on the premise of teleportation (something Sans rarely uses early into the fight) and Gaster Blasters being faster (when Freeza has reacted to faster attacks and opponents and his own attacks are faster than Sans as well)
We can’t measure that its a pixel game. Sans will just kill him quickly and if freeza focuses o hitting sans instead of dodging then he will die even faster
Oh so you have zero argument for the timeframe Sans can kill Freeza. You just arbitrarily assume Freeza will get razed to death despite his decades of experience, mental training, ki sensing and ability to fight opponents much faster than him.
20 LOVE is max lol so nope
With the limited number of kills. Chara pretty clearly wants to pursue more LV in the ending of the Genocide route, meaning it can actually go beyond that.
Because you keep asking me the stuff you should talk in CRTs
This isn't CRT stuff. It's just basic verse equalisation. I'm inquiring about the logic of that verse so we can equalise with the other verse so the match makes sense. That's how battleboarding works. That's how the rules work. Adding in notes to verse pages and whatnot only occur in special circumstances, otherwise it's just case-by-case arguments. If this wasn't raised in past UT matches then that just means the arguments in past UT matches were poor quality and didn't equalise the verses properly.
Because you are going out of this fight to talking if undertale matches need LOVE added to them or KARMA
I'm asking basic information about how basic mechanics in UT's power system functions. How am I going 'out of this fight' to ask how one character's abilities will work under verse equalisation?
LOVE is weird since it seemed to work on undertale humans only so we can’t say that it would work on other humans in fiction. Humans in UT are universal at base (lol). Sans literally ignores that, the whole point of sans fight is that he ignores all your durability and health
That doesn't really answer the question. Why does LOVE work against UT Humans? Well, maybe because it enhances your SOUL-based damage? Your AT increases with LV doesn't it? So the basic conclusion is that more LV = more power. Freeza obviously can't use LV to attack souls and whatnot since he lacks Soul Manipulation but he should still be harder to kill inherently since UT Monsters have a harder time killing high LV opponents (due to their passively higher hit points).
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I'm leaving it at that. I feel like we're going in circles now and I gotta go offline anyways. Keeping my vote to Freeza. Was nice debating with you.
ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
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Oh yeah undertale is hard to debate anyways I will maybe respond later
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Voting Golden Freeza FRA, his wincons are more viable than Sans.
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I said sans but not fra
so sans fra
so sans fra
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- Thread starter
- #95
bruh idk this thread would get this big....
ima just put Sans against characters who are objectively much stronger than him who just happen to not resist soul manipulation or have no counters
ima just put Sans against characters who are objectively much stronger than him who just happen to not resist soul manipulation or have no counters
ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
- 3,659
Yep
Belive me. It works, he just beat 4-A thorima just put Sans against characters who are objectively much stronger than him who just happen to not resist soul manipulation or have no counters
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to be fair that's kinda his whole whole gimmick because that happened with LV 19 Frisk
Skeletonslayer56
He/Him- 27
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Golden Frieza FRA
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Frieza FRA
FantaRin_The_First
Username Only- 3,859
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Personally, I am on the side of Sans more tha Frieza since I think Sans' win cons are a bit stronger than Frieza's win-con (his soul-hax, his higher reactions and attack speed with GB, Sans' danmaku, his gravity-manip with Frieza's lack of LS, and the fact Sans immediately uses his "strongest attack first), so... Sans FRA.
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If i go onto sans' page one day and i see ******* GOLDEN FRIEZA in his notable victories i'll shit my ass.
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Golden Frieza FRA
GlaceonGamez471
He/Him- 2,550
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Sans FRA
Jackythejack
They/Them- 20,008
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Sans FRA
ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
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All of that is nonsense. I never said Sans would 'just' teleport behind him. You also ignore the part where most of Sans' attacks are extremely linear besides the long corridor segment. You are out of your mind if you think Freeza couldn't react to any of that. Along with that, Freeza has reacted to people dozens of times faster than him. What makes you think he can't dodge straight lasers on reaction?
You literally did but okay, You also forget that those attacks are obviously not fully shown thats like saying sans can use his get dunked on to make a undodgeable attack. Freeza cannot react to it because the telekinesis, teleportation of attacks and danmaku that can basically one shot him is too much for him too handle and you are saying he can dodge all of those and attack sans
And Freeza has consistently reacted to people faster than him. Particularly Dyspo who has linear movements just like the lasers from the Gaster Blasters. Ki attacks also scale above the user and are logically faster than Sans.
Since speed is equalized he goes down to sans speed so no he cannot react or escape them since they are faster, multiple, big hitbox that can also be abused with bones
That's headcanon. He has never dodged an attack by teleporting.
Supergenius should be able to think that? He was fighting a knife...a knife
No he isn't.
Yeap he is
Actually, you haven't. Freeza also has unknown LS and logically your LS correlates with the gravity you can withstand. Meaning there is no context for how effective Gravity Manipulation is here. You also haven't made any compelling arguments for Sans 'kills him fast' . Seriously, getting brushed by KR isn't going to kill Freeza and you are all assuming Freeza somehow can't dodge and react to Sans' attacks on the premise of teleportation (something Sans rarely uses early into the fight) and Gaster Blasters being faster (when Freeza has reacted to faster attacks and opponents and his own attacks are faster than Sans as well)
Sans gravity manipulatin effects the soul thats why only the soul is blue so basically when your soul goes down your body goes with it. Sans literally kills frisk who has crazy resistance and 90 HP extremely fast by draining his HP, you are forgetting after freeza does all of that sans will just...send more! Gaster blasters faster than both and speed is equal
Oh so you have zero argument for the timeframe Sans can kill Freeza. You just arbitrarily assume Freeza will get razed to death despite his decades of experience, mental training, ki sensing and ability to fight opponents much faster than him.
Bro wants me to calculate undertale somehow. It just assumed that way and freeza probably has a higher reaction speed if he can do those but now he is equalized with sans so no he can't react to GB.
With the limited number of kills. Chara pretty clearly wants to pursue more LV in the ending of the Genocide route, meaning it can actually go beyond that.
LV 20 is limit. Beyond that is fanon.
This isn't CRT stuff. It's just basic verse equalisation. I'm inquiring about the logic of that verse so we can equalise with the other verse so the match makes sense. That's how battleboarding works. That's how the rules work. Adding in notes to verse pages and whatnot only occur in special circumstances, otherwise it's just case-by-case arguments. If this wasn't raised in past UT matches then that just means the arguments in past UT matches were poor quality and didn't equalise the verses properly.
Because you can't undertale is much different than other verses so people with knowledge more than both of us just agreed to some stuff that make sense like sans killing fast but not insant (It was insant back then). You can downgrade sans DoT with a CRT if you want thats what I am saying
I'm asking basic information about how basic mechanics in UT's power system functions. How am I going 'out of this fight' to ask how one character's abilities will work under verse equalisation?
Love and Karma are not sans abilitys. Karma is literally a fanon and Love is a thing on undertale that cannot be used in debates
That doesn't really answer the question. Why does LOVE work against UT Humans? Well, maybe because it enhances your SOUL-based damage? Your AT increases with LV doesn't it? So the basic conclusion is that more LV = more power. Freeza obviously can't use LV to attack souls and whatnot since he lacks Soul Manipulation but he should still be harder to kill inherently since UT Monsters have a harder time killing high LV opponents (due to their passively higher hit points).
LOVE is special to UT Humans since its in their verse. It doesn't enchance SOUL-based damage the intent to kill does. You are right about those EXPECT for the fact that it will be harder for sans to kill him since if you didn't know the entire genocide route frisk literally deletes every monster with their LOVE and barely take any damage expect for Undyen but thats a whole another story, Sans still beat the shit out of them without problem since he ignores the harder to kill rule...he breaks the rules.
Jackythejack
They/Them- 20,008
- 1,717
the fact that the first half of this thread was someone just not undertanding how dura neg works is very funny
ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
- 3,659
Skill issue (They voted friza)
- 10,272
- 17,260
- 18,393
- 14,311
F
- 4,120
- 2,179
Is Sans some new Thunder McQueen I'm too old-fashioned to understand?
FantaRin_The_First
Username Only- 3,859
- 2,249
I don't really see the issue here, tbh. Sans just has a very good kit and just tends to not frick around like, for example, Raiden with his Speed Boost and Dura-Neg Blade.
Kazuma_kuwabara
She/Her- 4,441
- 2,055
Goku is Class K in Commander red saga, why Goku becomes unknown is beyond comprehesion, but there is no reason to say "well, Goku is WEAKER than his 13 years youngself"
And Frieza can restrain Goku, both in super and in Z, Freezer is class K by simple logic, if the profiles does not reflect this is not our problem, there is literally no reason why Goku should lose his lifting strenght rating, he should gain "at least class K"
FantaRin_The_First
Username Only- 3,859
- 2,249
Wait, I didn't know. Somebody has to fix that.
ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
- 3,659
Sans uses telekinesis on the soul anyway
Kazuma_kuwabara
She/Her- 4,441
- 2,055
Half of the battles where someone resist his TK for having more LS should go then, but I am not interested, I just read that and I have to interfered
ShionAH
He/Him- 14,708
- 3,659
Okay bye bye
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Do you know if this scales to any other characters with unknown LS?
- 5,206
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So, since the OP isn't counting the votes, I decided to count and for now it's Sans 11 - 8 Golden Freeza.
Sans: @TheKillerYT, @FantaRin_The_First, @omegabronic, @Adem_Warlock69, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @Maverick_Zero_X, @LeoEpicGamer8910, @Reploidnoridomix, @Nierre, @GlaceonGamez471, @Jackythejack
Frieza: @TheGatememer, @Dragonite007, @TartaChocholate, @ImmortalDread, @CryoTheMayo, @TauanVictor, @Skeletonslayer56, @Cimafranca133
Sans: @TheKillerYT, @FantaRin_The_First, @omegabronic, @Adem_Warlock69, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @Maverick_Zero_X, @LeoEpicGamer8910, @Reploidnoridomix, @Nierre, @GlaceonGamez471, @Jackythejack
Frieza: @TheGatememer, @Dragonite007, @TartaChocholate, @ImmortalDread, @CryoTheMayo, @TauanVictor, @Skeletonslayer56, @Cimafranca133
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