Sans VS Choi Yoon-Seok

[Rikimarox2]

Been forever since I made a match for Yoon-seok, so why not.

Sans' ap is 6Mj, although it doesn't really matter since his main shtick is Soul stuff.

Yoon-seok's ap is >> 2.3MJ, plus he has a couple of amps.

Both are 9-B.

Speed is equalized.

Sans has prior knowledge.

Sans: 0

Choi Yoon-seok: 1 (XxZetsuxX)

Yu fodderizes both: 0

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump

 

[Dragonite007]

Been forever since I made a match for Yoon-seok, so why not.

Sans' ap is 15kj, although it doesn't really matter since his main shtick is Soul stuff.

Yoon-seok's ap is >> 2.3MJ, so any attack would one shot.

Both are 9-B.

Speed is equalized.

Sans: 0

Choi Yoon-Seok: 0

Yu fodderizes both: 0

Sans is actually 6 Megajoules

and Choi's link go to nowhere

 

[Livinmeme]

Choi Yoon-seok

Choi Yoon-seok is the main protagonist of the Korean novel "Turns out to be a Genius Duelist", after having been humiliated by his bully, Yoon-seok mysteriously teleports to an arena where he is immediately set to fight an Orc. There, he realizes his potential for fighting. Tier: 9-B, higher via...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Rikimarox2]

Sans is actually 6 Megajoules

and Choi's link go to nowhere

Fixed.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bumpty

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bumpty

 

[azontr]

Yu fodderizes both: 0

I see that you have not lost your way, brother.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bumpty

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bumpty

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Invisibility GG?

 

[Rikimarox2]

It isn't a first-move option, though he might opt for it if he starts having a bit of trouble.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

It isn't a first-move option, though he might opt for it if he starts having a bit of trouble.

Right, Can he survive Sans first attack? How skilled is he with danmaku? Is it on Sans level?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Right, Can he survive Sans first attack? How skilled is he with danmaku? Is it on Sans level?

Don't recall that many Danmaku feats for this key (One Danmaku feat for like, near the end of the story is being capable of dodging 10k arrows, from all directions, all of which is faster than him).

The only feat I could recall is dodging and blocking many arrows (Likely hundreds). Though, I'm pretty sure it is easily manageable considering this guy has a myraid of feats, and Instinctive Action on the level of Garou (Kinda), like fighting, dodging, learning, etc... all while sleeping and never fighting in his life. His instincts should help him here. For the record, the dude has a feats section down below in his profile. You can check it out to see how skilled he is (Altho it isn't every skill feat he has done)

Also, assuming he does get hit, I don't think a single attack from Sans would one shot him? Wasn't that changed?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Don't recall that many Danmaku feats for this key (One Danmaku feat for like, near the end of the story is being capable of dodging 10k arrows, from all directions, all of which is faster than him).

The only feat I could recall is dodging and blocking many arrows (Likely hundreds). Though, I'm pretty sure it is easily manageable considering this guy has a myraid of feats, and Instinctive Action on the level of Garou (Kinda), like fighting, dodging, learning, etc... all while sleeping and never fighting in his life. His instincts should help him here.

He stomps Sans if this is the case ;-;

Also, assuming he does get hit, I don't think a single attack from Sans would one shot him? Wasn't that changed?

Yeah, He doesn't one shot anymore, He kills very fast though

 

[Rikimarox2]

I still think there is a chance Sans might win here (Slim, but it exists, I think), considering Yoon-seok doesn't have any soul resistance shenanigans. Altho it is gonna be hard, but 2-3 attacks might kill him here if he messes up.

Although if we do take it that this key isn't that much inferior to later keys, then it might become a stomp. The dude was able to train, lift dumbbells, and play jumping rope, eyes closed, all at the same time while dodging attacks that were so much faster than him that they were blitzing him and he wasn't able to perceive them. Though, we don't assume that here.

Though I'm open to hearing what other people think. If majority/really knowledgeable UT fan agrees he stomps, then I can go ahead and close this thread.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I still think there is a chance Sans might win here (Slim, but it exists, I think), considering Yoon-seok doesn't have any soul resistance shenanigans. Altho it is gonna be hard, but 2-3 attacks might kill him here if he messes up.

Although if we do take it that this key isn't that much inferior to later keys, then it might become a stomp. The dude was able to train, lift dumbbells, and play jumping rope, eyes closed, all at the same time while dodging attacks that were so much faster than him that they were blitzing him and he wasn't able to perceive them. Though, we don't assume that here.

Though I'm open to hearing what other people think. If majority/really knowledgeable UT fan agrees he stomps, then I can go ahead and close this thread.

Mabye give prior knowledge?

I can see Sans spam TK for the win?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Mabye give prior knowledge?

I can see Sans spam TK for the win?

Good idea. Although I don't think it's enough for a concise win, since Yoon-seok can still activate his abilities with a thought, use his law manip to stop telekinesis, attack while floating, etc... I still think it would probably ramp up the difficulty quite a bit for him.

I added prior knowledge.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Good idea. Although I don't think it's enough for a concise win, since Yoon-seok can still activate his abilities with a thought, use his law manip to stop telekinesis, attack while floating, etc... I still think it would probably ramp up the difficulty quite a bit for him.

Can he only use law manip on 1 attack? What if he uses on every Sans move set? Wouldn't that definitely make this a stomp?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Can he only use law manip on 1 attack? What if he uses on every Sans move set? Wouldn't that definitely make this a stomp?

On a type of attack, or anything, really. He could make a law stating that no one can use flight, or that no restraining effects can be applied, or no regeneration can happen, or no one can dodge, or no one can leave a certain radius, etc... Although all of this would apply to himself as well, and the law shenanigans take up a lot of mana so he can't use it to restrict sans of all of his attacks (Probably). So, if he made a law stating that no one can dodge, or no one can attack, Yoon-seok also won't be able to dodge or attack.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

On a type of attack, or anything, really. He could make a law stating that no one can use flight, or that no restraining effects can be applied, or no regeneration can happen, or no one can dodge, or no one can leave a certain radius, etc... Although all of this would apply to himself as well, and the law shenanigans take up a lot of mana so he can't use it to restrict sans of all of his attacks (Probably). So, if he made a law stating that no one can dodge, or no one can attack, Yoon-seok also won't be able to dodge or attack.

Double edged knife i see

Now, I just need to know how Sans can do something about his IA

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also, Another worrysome ability he has which is "Multiply"

Depending on how much speed you need to blitz, I think this would also mean a stomp

Last time i remember a 2-3x speed increase is a blitz no?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Now, I just need to know how Sans can do something about his IA

TK + Bone ground attack could probably land an attack or two, if Sans spams it (Though it'd become a non-factor pretty quickly since Yoon-seok will probably adapt if he didn't die). Not to mention, Yoon-seok would only use his law manip if stuff gets really tiresome, or if he cannot reach Sans (Doubtful since his attacks are ranged). Not to mention, in this key his mana isn't as unlimited as his later keys, so he probably won't resort to law manip unless things get really dangerous.

Also, Another worrysome ability he has which is "Multiply"

Depending on how much speed you need to blitz, I think this would also mean a stomp

Last time i remember a 2-3x speed increase is a blitz no?

Multiply only affects his attack speed, not his normal speed. So, his reaction speed, movement speed, etc... will all stay the same.

Though, one thing that Yoon-seok can (and will most likely resort to) do is just... attack the bones with his sword, which has powernull in it, which powernulls anything that is remotely magic-related (Which includes almost everything in his verse, including soul shenanigans)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

TK + Bone ground attack could probably land an attack or two, if Sans spams it (Though it'd become a non-factor pretty quickly since Yoon-seok will probably adapt if he didn't die). Not to mention, Yoon-seok would only use his law manip if stuff gets really tiresome, or if he cannot reach Sans (Doubtful since his attacks are ranged). Not to mention, in this key his mana isn't as unlimited as his later keys, so he probably won't resort to law manip unless things get really dangerous.

I see, Last time i remember in a Sans match, Just 0.2 seconds could kill a 20 HP person (I could be remembering wrong though)

Multiply only affects his attack speed, not his normal speed. So, his reaction speed, movement speed, etc... will all stay the same.

Then nvm unless he gets too close to Sans XD

Though, one thing that Yoon-seok can (and will most likely resort to) do is just... attack the bones with his sword, which has powernull in it, which powernulls anything that is remotely magic-related (Which includes almost everything in his verse, including soul shenanigans)

This just gave me an idea, Does his powernull work on intangible things since i don't see NPI in his profile? If not Sans could just yeetus deletus his soul and win

 

[Rikimarox2]

I see, Last time i remember in a Sans match, Just 0.2 seconds could kill a 20 HP person (I could be remembering wrong though)

Plenty of time, unironically, considering their speed and Yoon-seok's IR.

Then nvm unless he gets too close to Sans XD

Keep in mind, every attack that Yoon-seok makes with his sword is ranged (It shoots energy blades, which are invisible).

This just gave me an idea, Does his powernull work on intangible things since i don't see NPI in his profile? If not Sans could just yeetus deletus his soul and win

How would he do that? Does he just have EE on soul or smth? Or do you mean that he can just yank his soul with TK and Yoon-seok is unable to do anything?

As for the Powernull, it just works on anything that remotely has magic in it. Yoon-seok himself doesn't have NPI for his physical attacks (IE punches or smth like that), but his sword should pretty much ignore that since its powernull is able to affect anything, including intangible shenanigans (Energy attacks, aura, soul stuff, info type 2, etc...) especially considering its the sword of a Low 5-B/5-A dude that can kill almost everything in the verse. So, anything that has a projectile should work.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Plenty of time, unironically, considering their speed and Yoon-seok's IR.

Aight

Keep in mind, every attack that Yoon-seok makes with his sword is ranged (It shoots energy blades, which are invisible).

Sans cannot see invisible things, This is more worrysome for Sans o-o

How would he do that? Does he just have EE on soul or smth? Or do you mean that he can just yank his soul with TK and Yoon-seok is unable to do anything?

No no, I meant as a joke, Like Sans attacks and Choi's souls gets nuked, Nothing important XD

As for the Powernull, it just works on anything that remotely has magic in it. Yoon-seok himself doesn't have NPI for his physical attacks (IE punches or smth like that), but his sword should pretty much ignore that since its powernull is able to affect anything, including intangible shenanigans (Energy attacks, aura, soul stuff, info type 2, etc...) especially considering its the sword of a Low 5-B/5-A dude that can kill almost everything in the verse. So, anything that has a projectile should work.

I think it needs to show him being able to null intangible things, I'm pretty sure soul, info type 2, energy and aura are completely different stuff

But i might be just nitpicking ngl (But i would like some scans if possible)

 

[Rikimarox2]

I think it needs to show him being able to null intangible things, I'm pretty sure soul, info type 2, energy and aura are completely different stuff

Mb, I instantly thought of like, the immaterial intangiability (Which his sword has shown to null, such as mana, magic, etc...). I assume Sans' attacks are phasing? If so, it might be a bit of problem, although I still don't know how they'll interact considering Sans' attacks are still magic at the end of the day. I'm pretty sure there are intangible things in the verse, but man I'm not in the energy to look at 309 chapters right now.

But i might be just nitpicking ngl (But i would like some scans if possible)

I'll try to look at his draft to see if he has it, then I'll check one of his fights with the magician. Though, I still don't think it'll change the outcome much (aside from possibly damaging Yoon-seok a bit, though there's still the case of his IA just making him dodge automatically).

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Mb, I instantly thought of like, the immaterial intangiability (Which his sword has shown to null, such as mana, magic, etc...). I assume Sans' attacks are phasing? If so, it might be a bit of problem, although I still don't know how they'll interact considering Sans' attacks are still magic at the end of the day. I'm pretty sure there are intangible things in the verse, but man I'm not in the energy to look at 309 chapters right now.

I'll try to look at his draft to see if he has it, then I'll check one of his fights with the magician. Though, I still don't think it'll change the outcome much (aside from possibly damaging Yoon-seok a bit, though there's still the case of his IA just making him dodge automatically).

Alright, But with this i can see being more fair

Though i don't know if Sans version of IA will help him with invisible attacks from the sword

 

[Rikimarox2]

Alright, But with this i can see being more fair

Though i don't know if Sans version of IA will help him with invisible attacks from the sword

I'm honestly willing to just assume he cannot affect them with his sword for the time being. Although I still think Yoon-seok can get a pretty comfortable win due to his IA, invisible energy attacks, multiply, law manip, godtier stamina (Which, if worst comes to worst and he just decides to dodge, he'd be able to outlast Sans very quickly), and finally, his invisibility (Which isn't a first move, but he might opt to go for it).

As for IA, I don't think it matters if Sans' IA could cover invisible attacks, since Yoon-seok already fights dudes with IA from like, the first chapter, and he has Analytical prediction, and skillstomps other dudes of similar caliber.

Although the phasing stuff might be a bit of a problem, I think Yoon-seok still has a 60-70% chance of winning here. Also, if it matters, we're assuming SBA here, which means they'll be 4KM apart. Not sure if that changes much, but if it does skew with the match a lot, I can change it if you want.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm honestly willing to just assume he cannot affect them with his sword for the time being. Although I still think Yoon-seok can get a pretty comfortable win due to his IA, invisible energy attacks, multiply, law manip, godtier stamina (Which, if worst comes to worst and he just decides to dodge, he'd be able to outlast Sans very quickly), and finally, his invisibility (Which isn't a first move, but he might opt to go for it).

As for IA, I don't think it matters if Sans' IA could cover invisible attacks, since Yoon-seok already fights dudes with IA from like, the first chapter, and he has Analytical prediction, and skillstomps other dudes of similar caliber.

Although the phasing stuff might be a bit of a problem, I think Yoon-seok still has a 60-70% chance of winning here. Also, if it matters, we're assuming SBA here, which means they'll be 4KM apart. Not sure if that changes much, but if it does skew with the match a lot, I can change it if you want.

How would he do against Sans own law manip? Could Sans make him incapable of attacking and then proceed to SI?

He can convince a murderer child on a rampage to spare him so idk mabye it could work?

If not, Consider me voting for Choi (Rip ;c)

 

[Rikimarox2]

How would he do against Sans own law manip? Could Sans make him incapable of attacking and then proceed to SI?

For law manip, he can override it with his own (He did it quite a bit in the series). Although I'm honestly not sure why he doesn't have resistance to law manip, since it was already accepted here. A mistake on my part, but even if he didn't have it, he still can override it pretty easily.

As for SI... Maybe? Probably not? The problem is that, 1, Yoon-seok isn't really a child. And 2, this key is kind of where the whole Bloodthirsty arc begins for him. Had it been another key (Aside from the current 2, so I mean If I updated the profile), the chances would've probably been higher. However, in this key, he kind of just goes on a rampage, killed his own parent's illusions (Or would, pretty soon), etc...

Though, even if we removed all of that, it still wouldn't really matter? Because for 1, if Sans tries to dunk him, his IA will kick in, and 2, SBA already assumes the character are in kill mode, and Yoon-seok, considering how the story's setting is (A huge tower of 1v1s, or 1vgodknowshowmany), is not familiar with monsters at all, killed other peeps, and is sure as hell not willing to take chances.

And even then, ignoring all of this, and assuming his SI would work, that is still assuming Sans can survive long enough or get tired enough to do it, when realistically, 1 or 2 attacks from Yoon-seok would kill him.

If not, Consider me voting for Choi (Rip ;c)

Nice, I'll wait for ur reply then I'll count it.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

For law manip, he can override it with his own (He did it quite a bit in the series). Although I'm honestly not sure why he doesn't have resistance to law manip, since it was already accepted here. A mistake on my part, but even if he didn't have it, he still can override it pretty easily.

Rip

As for SI... Maybe? Probably not? The problem is that, 1, Yoon-seok isn't really a child.

Children are... How do i say it, Hard to convince because they do not listen, Papyrus could not convince them because they refuse to listen and Papyrus is not very good with words unlike Sans

And 2, this key is kind of where the whole Bloodthirsty arc begins for him. Had it been another key (Aside from the current 2, so I mean If I updated the profile), the chances would've probably been higher. However, in this key, he kind of just goes on a rampage, killed his own parent's illusions (Or would, pretty soon), etc...

Yeah, What i said above, I could still see it working, The premise is the same but him being an adult rather than a child, He can use his head to think rationally more easily than Frisk as they are a child

Though, even if we removed all of that, it still wouldn't really matter? Because for 1, if Sans tries to dunk him, his IA will kick in,

Yeah, But Sans has prior knowledge on him, He won't do that otherwise he knows he is screwed

and 2, SBA already assumes the character are in kill mode, and Yoon-seok, considering how the story's setting is (A huge tower of 1v1s, or 1vgodknowshowmany), is not familiar with monsters at all, killed other peeps, and is sure as hell not willing to take chances.

I believe they are in character but willing to "kill" iirc unless someone changed the rules or i might be misremembering it

And even then, ignoring all of this, and assuming his SI would work, that is still assuming Sans can survive long enough or get tired enough to do it, when realistically, 1 or 2 attacks from Yoon-seok would kill him.

Hm

Nice, I'll wait for ur reply then I'll count it.

I will wait for yours now XD, Mabye you can agree with my points

 

[Rikimarox2]

Children are... How do i say it, Hard to convince because they do not listen, Papyrus could not convince them because they refuse to listen and Papyrus is not very good with words unlike Sans

Yeah, What i said above, I could still see it working, The premise is the same but him being an adult rather than a child, He can use his head to think rationally more easily than Frisk as they are a child

I can kind of see your point, but unlike Frisk or Chara, Yoon-seok, in this key, knows that he quite literally cannot stop killing (He is forced to go to the Arena/Tower, and has to kill there), and I don't think he'd risk the chance of dying since he knows Sans is his opponent and there might be the slightest chance he'd kill him. Not to mention, I still don't think Yoon-seok would really risk it, especially considering everyone so far has been trying to kill him, and very shortly after, he kind of... well, went on a killing spree against people he thought that did some wrong. He even knew what he was doing (IIRC) was not right, but he still did it. No one could really convince him to stop, not until he got an ability that blocks these kinds of thoughts. He killed his parent's illusions, even when they were pleading with him.

But even then, ignoring all of that, didn't Sans kind of have prior knowledge on Frisk/Chara? He still didn't really opt to just try to do mercy with them, but instead fought with them for quite a bit and then decided to mercy them. I don't think Sans will act any differently, especially since he will be able to tell that Yoon-seok killed many people. I don't think Sans would opt to mercy someone who killed many people,

Yeah, But Sans has prior knowledge on him, He won't do that otherwise he knows he is screwed

Fair point, though I still don't think he'd immediately do it, and there's still quite a large chance it will fail, or hell, Yoon-seok might not even give him the chance to talk.

I believe they are in character but willing to "kill" iirc unless someone changed the rules or i might be misremembering it

No, you are right. But the thing is, Yoon-seok's In-character is kind of... killing, if he has an opponent.

Though, let's ignore all of this. Assuming SI would work, Sans will need to 1. Instantly try to convince Yoon-seok the moment the fight starts (Which I find kind of unlikely), and 2. Pray that Yoon-seok doesn't immediately kill him with an attack, especially considering he'd opt to immediately attack right away. Honestly, I think just Tking and attacking him has a higher likelihood of winning.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I can kind of see your point, but unlike Frisk or Chara, Yoon-seok, in this key, knows that he quite literally cannot stop killing (He is forced to go to the Arena/Tower, and has to kill there), and I don't think he'd risk the chance of dying since he knows Sans is his opponent and there might be the slightest chance he'd kill him.

I mean, While he cannot i still believe Sans can do something

Frisk killed for fun and curiosity which is kinda even more worse than Yoon-Seok

Frisk started enjoying killing seen when he started doing a scary face on flowey and how he simply tortured sadistically flowey (By attacking him repeatedly even when he was already dead)

They did not care about a motherly figure such as Toriel who wanted the best for them

And how they simply ignored and killed Papyrus who was more than willingly trying to save them

Not to mention, I still don't think Yoon-seok would really risk it, especially considering everyone so far has been trying to kill him, and very shortly after, he kind of... well, went on a killing spree against people he thought that did some wrong.

I think this can apply on what i said above

Sans can certainly convince he is a good guy and did nothing wrong, He is very good with his words

He even knew what he was doing (IIRC) was not right, but he still did it. No one could really convince him to stop, not until he got an ability that blocks these kinds of thoughts. He killed his parent's illusions, even when they were pleading with him.

What i said above

But even then, ignoring all of that, didn't Sans kind of have prior knowledge on Frisk/Chara?

Sans would've see him being LVL 1 since he can see LVLS

While he saw Frisk killing and was also LVL 19

He still didn't really opt to just try to do mercy with them, but instead fought with them for quite a bit and then decided to mercy them.

I think you could make a case because Sans will see him as lvl 1 and has prior knowledge, But i guess that's just me

I don't think Sans will act any differently, especially since he will be able to tell that Yoon-seok killed many people. I don't think Sans would opt to mercy someone who killed many people,

He has prior knowledge, So Sans will definitely know he is doing against his will

Fair point, though I still don't think he'd immediately do it, and there's still quite a large chance it will fail, or hell, Yoon-seok might not even give him the chance to talk.

What i said above

No, you are right. But the thing is, Yoon-seok's In-character is kind of... killing, if he has an opponent.

What i said above

Though, let's ignore all of this. Assuming SI would work, Sans will need to 1. Instantly try to convince Yoon-seok the moment the fight starts (Which I find kind of unlikely)

What i said above (Once again XD)

, and 2. Pray that Yoon-seok doesn't immediately kill him with an attack, especially considering he'd opt to immediately attack right away.

Sans can dodge, Even with speed equalized, He still has higher reaction speed

Honestly, I think just Tking and attacking him has a higher likelihood of winning.

I see

 

[Rikimarox2]

I think you could make a case because Sans will see him as lvl 1 and has prior knowledge, But i guess that's just me

He has prior knowledge, So Sans will definitely know he is doing against his will

I mean, if he has prior knowledge, he'd also know he killed quite a lot of people. Not to mention, Yoon-seok loves fighting (That and training are his only passion, really). I don't think Sans, even if he knows Yoon-seok is doing it against his will, would willingly spare someone who killed people even when outside of the tower.

But let's say, it will work (For now).

As I mentioned, Yoon-seok has a large likelihood of just instantly killing him, since he's still willing to kill, and Sans kind of has to Law manip him in order for Sans to do his whole monologue (Similar to how he did with Frisk/Chara), which... won't work here, when Yoon-seok has resistance, can override it, and honestly, attempting to law maniping him would probably set him off. In addition to 5x attack speed... yeah, Sans kind of has to rely on luck in order for this to work (Which I'll admit, after reading your argument, it does have some merit and likelihood to work if he manages to pull it off without law manip)

Sans can dodge, Even with speed equalized, He still has higher reaction speed

Sure, but like, that kind of is not a factor against someone who, not only buffs his attack speed by like 4-5x, but he is just so much more skilled that wherever Sans will dodge, Yoon-seok would be able to know. I mean, just before his second key (Which isn't even that more skilled, since not that much training happened nor did he meet anyone that could challenge him in skill), he defeated his literal clone, who was optimized for battle, knows more techniques, and was, IIRC, 10% stronger and faster than him. I don't think Sans would be able to dodge any of Yoon-seok's attacks, tbh.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I mean, if he has prior knowledge, he'd also know he killed quite a lot of people.

I meant like, He knows Choi has some intrusive thoughts about killing people against his will XD

Not to mention, Yoon-seok loves fighting (That and training are his only passion, really).

I mean, I believe this is kinda irrelevant because you said he is doing this against his will because of something right? And he only stops after he gets a certain skill

I don't think Sans, even if he knows Yoon-seok is doing it against his will, would willingly spare someone who killed people even when outside of the tower.

This comes to my previous comment about prior knowledge, He knows he has very slim chances of surviving if he tries to 1v1 him

But let's say, it will work (For now).

As I mentioned, Yoon-seok has a large likelihood of just instantly killing him, since he's still willing to kill, and Sans kind of has to Law manip him in order for Sans to do his whole monologue (Similar to how he did with Frisk/Chara),

He can kinda do it without law hax, He doesn't use law hax to SI frisk mid battle, He only does at the end to extend his turn

which... won't work here, when Yoon-seok has resistance, can override it, and honestly, attempting to law maniping him would probably set him off.

What i said above

In addition to 5x attack speed... yeah, Sans kind of has to rely on luck in order for this to work (Which I'll admit, after reading your argument, it does have some merit and likelihood to work if he manages to pull it off without law manip)

This will come down if Choi starts with multiply, Does he test his opponent beforehand before acessing any of his skills or does he use it from the get go? If anything Sans could just TK him without hurting him and use it just to create distance so he can talk

Sure, but like, that kind of is not a factor against someone who, not only buffs his attack speed by like 4-5x, but he is just so much more skilled that wherever Sans will dodge, Yoon-seok would be able to know.

Fair

I mean, just before his second key (Which isn't even that more skilled, since not that much training happened nor did he meet anyone that could challenge him in skill), he defeated his literal clone, who was optimized for battle, knows more techniques, and was, IIRC, 10% stronger and faster than him. I don't think Sans would be able to dodge any of Yoon-seok's attacks, tbh.

He can't i think XD

 

[Rikimarox2]

I meant like, He knows Choi has some intrusive thoughts about killing people against his will XD

I mean, I believe this is kinda irrelevant because you said he is doing this against his will because of something right? And he only stops after he gets a certain skill

Unneccasry/brutal killings? Yeah, that was against his will. But fighting and training? Nah, man loved that stuff so much, that it really had nothing to do with the whole killing shenanigans. Normal fights? Not against his will, either. If he knows he has to fight an opponent, the dude would try to fight him. Hell, I remember a scene where, once he knew the opponent was strong or had some good abilities, he literally made that person keep attacking him while he trained to dodge. There was also another instance where he tied a person up in the arena just so he can train more (Time flowed differently in the arena, ie slower than outside, so he used that to his advantage), for weeks to the point that his opponent literally begged to kill him. This is all after he was fixed from that bloodlust. I wouldn't exactly call Yoon-seok a saint, in that regard (He did kill him eventually, though).

Also, after rereading some chapters while looking for intangibility (Which I still can't find, damn), I've stumbled upon this:

But now, he had a clear objective. He wouldn’t run away from the Tower but would climb up the ladder to become as strong as he could. Surprisingly, the efforts needed for this goal were no different than before. He just had to do his best to prepare for the next match, just like always. ~ Chapter 31

Which... kinda makes all of this moot, as it shows that, while he isn't that fond of killing, his objective is to become the strongest. Additionally, while it is against his will, he doesn't really dislike it that much, if anything, he gains the thrills from it due to fighting.

And... even if Sans did manage to stop him from killing him, I feel like the moment Sans tries to do TK, or any of his attacks, Yoon-seok will still attempt to fight him, even if not to death.

Also, isn't there like an actual mechanic in undertale where characters aren't able to attack, and each have their own turn? IIRC Sans used that, no?

He can kinda do it without law hax, He doesn't use law hax to SI frisk mid battle, He only does at the end to extend his turn

It seems I misinterpreted the law manip then. I assumed the normal game mechanic was considered law manip.

This will come down if Choi starts with multiply, Does he test his opponent beforehand before acessing any of his skills or does he use it from the get go? If anything Sans could just TK him without hurting him and use it just to create distance so he can talk

Kind of always starts with it, with this scan showing that, after King of Steel tried to attack him, he instantly used his Weapon Enhancement (A weaker version of multiply, before he got it). Keep in mind, in this fight he instantly tried to attack King of Steel with his invisible energy sword, and then used his amp when he realized that King of Steel was nuts.

He can't i think XD

Yeah, even without multiply, I don't think Sans is able to dodge, at all. So, I honestly believe any attack Yoon-seok does (Whether multiply, normal attack, etc...) all of them would spell trouble for Sans.

Tbh I feel like the chances of Sans instantly going for SI and it working immediately without him being cut in half is quite slim, and Yoon, in general, has a much higher likelihood of winning here, considering there's also the possibility of Sans opting for another move. So even if SI works, Yoon-seok still would likely win with higher winrate.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Then unfortunitely Choi FRA ;-;

 

[Rikimarox2]

Counted.

Also, thanks for the civil debate, btw. It was a good one.