Sanji vs Oldbeard

[Sus]

wb destroys via scaling to kaido

 

[DaMonkeMan]

There are several distinct factors of speed that you are attempting to conflate.

These factors include reaction speed, attack speed, combat speed, perception speed, and mental speed.

Perception speed is the rate at which one can perceive an attack approaching. The fact that Queen can perceive Marco's assault, despite not scaling in other speed categories, implies that any individual capable of perception blitzing Queen is faster than Marco.

i see the point yall are making but i dislike making big decisions based on tiny evidence

Occam's Razor.

 

[ZKillerz]

wb destroys via scaling to kaido

Now that we are deeply engaged in this conversation, I realize that I may have neglected to account for Whitebeard's numerous statements. I became too fixated on the feats and failed to take this into consideration.

Considering this, how would you go about scaling Whitebeard? Do you believe he is solely the strongest when he is in possession of his medicine, or do you think he retains his title despite his underwhelming feats during the Marineford War when he was sick?

 

[Sus]

Now that we are deeply engaged in this conversation, I realize that I may have neglected to account for Whitebeard's numerous statements. I became too fixated on the feats and failed to take this into consideration.

Considering this, how would you go about scaling Whitebeard? Do you believe he is solely the strongest when he is in possession of his medicine, or do you think he retains his title despite his underwhelming feats during the Marineford War when he was sick?

kaido was confident of killing old wb but admires his prime (i know confidence scaling is shit dont boo me)
kaido didnt know wb was sick iirc

for his title, no, it doesnt refer to his literal ap

 

[ZKillerz]

Occam's Razor.

How does your argument align with Occam's Razor?

In my opinion, your interpretation lacks equal logical reasoning when compared to mine. Furthermore, your interpretation is fundamentally flawed as your trying to conflate two different categories of speed.

 

[ZKillerz]

kaido was confident of killing old wb but admires his prime (i know confidence scaling is shit dont boo me)
kaido didnt know wb was sick iirc

for his title, no, it doesnt refer to his literal ap

So you dont think Whitebeards title makes him the strongest in the verse?

 

[Sus]

So you dont think Whitebeards title makes him the strongest in the verse?

you do?
if we're taking titles too literally then kaido would be the strongest not wb

 

[ZKillerz]

you do?
if we're taking titles too literally then kaido would be the strongest not wb

Idk honestly I haven't thought about the subject much

 

[DaMonkeMan]

How does your argument align with Occam's Razor?

In my opinion, your interpretation lacks equal logical reasoning when compared to mine. Furthermore, your interpretation is fundamentally flawed as your trying to conflate two different categories of speed.

Mine is fundamentally flawed because I'm not trying to scale Queen and Sanji to the guy who kept up with Kizaru, Akainu, Kuzan, Big Mom, etc.?

 

[ZKillerz]

Mine is fundamentally flawed because I'm not trying to scale Queen and Sanji to the guy who kept up with Kizaru, Akainu, Kuzan, Big Mom, etc.?

Your argument is flawed due to its flawed reasoning. You have failed to acknowledge that Sanji scales over Marco due to his ability to blitz Queen's perception.
It is not difficult to understand that blitzing someone visually is more impressive than blitzing them physically.

Edit: A general law of motion is that the faster something is the harder it is to perceive it

The fact that Queen was able to perceive Marco means that Sanji was moving faster than he was.

 

[Sus]

do you think sanji is faster than kizaru ?

 

[Kachon123]

do you think sanji is faster than kizaru ?

As of the feats shown up until chapter 1082, yes, Sanji is faster than Kizaru.

Later on when Kizaru shows more feats that may change, but until further notice, Sanji is faster.

 

[Sus]

thats wild

 

[Kachon123]

How?

 

[ZKillerz]

do you think sanji is faster than kizaru ?

Based on what we've seen so far yes

I would say sanji is faster than kizaru

If you want my non-objective opinion then I believe Kizaru has received a plot amp and would likely be able to quickly defeat Sanji in a fight.

 

[Sus]

wdym plot amp
so far there's 1 version of kizaru

 

[ZKillerz]

wdym plot amp
so far there's 1 version of kizaru

I just want to reiterate that this is my subjective opinion.

I believe that many characters in One Piece are in need of a plot amp simply due to how extreme the power-cliffing in Wano has become. The fact that Luffy is much stronger than the admirals, but they are still supposed to be significant threats to him, leads me to think that they will receive a "plot amp" in order to remain competitive with the rest of the high tier characters in the verse.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

As of the feats shown up until chapter 1082, yes, Sanji is faster than Kizaru.

Later on when Kizaru shows more feats that may change, but until further notice, Sanji is faster.

What the ****

 

[Sus]

I just want to reiterate that this is my subjective opinion.

I believe that many characters in One Piece are in need of a plot amp simply due to how extreme the power-cliffing in Wano has become. The fact that Luffy is much stronger than the admirals, but they are still supposed to be significant threats to him, leads me to think that they will receive a "plot amp" in order to remain competitive with the rest of the high tier characters in the verse.

why are they supposed to be a threat
luffy is an emperor, and other emperors are consistently superior to admirals
kaido scared off admirals for decades
shanks wifi diffed greenbull and stopped akainu
wb dominated akainu while sick and old
luffy was casual knowing an admiral is in the area
marco matched admirals with kicks but had to use special fire to match big mom
garp slammed kuzan

admirals are simply inferior to luffy until they show that they're not

 

[DaMonkeMan]

How?

Kizaru scales considerably above in any stat that isn't durability.

 

[ZKillerz]

admirals are simply inferior to luffy until they show that they're not

At least the og 3 admirals have a lot of story relevance and (in my non objective opinion) I think kizaru heading to egghead to face off against luffy is indicative of that

I dont see oda doing with kizaru what he did with gb but that's just my speculation

 

[ZKillerz]

Kizaru scales considerably above in any stat that isn't durability.

Since we are discussing speed, could you provide a specific feat that demonstrates Kizaru's superiority in speed compared to Sanji?

 

[Sus]

At least the og 3 admirals have a lot of story relevance and (in my non objective opinion) I think kizaru heading to egghead to face off against luffy is indicative of that

I dont see oda doing with kizaru what he did with gb but that's just my speculation

kizaru is heading there with one of the 5 elders
they have weapons and scars, if they're fodder i will be shocked

 

[ZKillerz]

kizaru is heading there with one of the 5 elders
they have weapons and scars, if they're fodder i will be shocked

Might be
But I still think he will perform decently against luffy, guess we will have to wait and see

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Since we are discussing speed, could you provide a specific feat that demonstrates Kizaru's superiority in speed compared to Sanji?

Read his speed section.

 

[Sus]

Might be
But I still think he will perform decently against luffy, guess we will have to wait and see

i believe he will face zoro/sanji while luffy faces the elder
but who knows

as of current info, luffy should be > kizaru

 

[Kachon123]

Read his speed section.

It says he reacted to Marco's kick. What about it?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

It says he reacted to Marco's kick. What about it?

Can react to his own lightspeed movement. Could morph around Whitebeard's naginata swing. Is stated to be the fastest admiral.),

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This is a stomp if we're using pre marineford whitebeard who can coat conquerors. He was able to match shanks so he just one shots sanji. Marineford whitebeard is close I think it'll be like whitebeard vs akainu but sanji is faster while whitebeard isn't damaged so I'll vote whitebeard for these reasons.

 

[Kachon123]

Can react to his own lightspeed movement. Could morph around Whitebeard's naginata swing. Is stated to be the fastest admiral.),

What feats do the admirals have that put their speed above Sanji's?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Marineford whitebeard is close I think it'll be like whitebeard vs akainu but sanji is faster

What feats do the admirals have that put their speed above Sanji's?

Scaling to Whitebeard who scales to Shanks

 

[Kachon123]

Scaling to Whitebeard who scales to Shanks

Sickbeard doesn't scale to Shanks.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Sickbeard doesn't scale to Shanks.

 

[DaReaperMan]

That's Oldbeard ya idjit

 

[Kachon123]

That's not Sickbeard.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

That's Oldbeard ya idjit

How is he different in his Sickbeard key?

 

[Kachon123]

How is he different in his Sickbeard key?

Marineford WB is Sickbeard

 

[DaReaperMan]

How is he different in his Sickbeard key?

Well first of all he's not having heart attacks, he's stated to be stronger, implied to be much faster, and can actually USE haki

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Well first of all he's not having heart attacks, he's stated to be stronger, implied to be much faster, and can actually USE haki

I mean, both him and Shanks countered Akainu before he could react, so..

 

[SlendVeny]

I mean, both him and Shanks countered Akainu before he could react, so..

So the Admirals don't scale????