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Samurai 8's literal God tier.

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Xulrev said:
That's why it's an analogy, it's not meant to be the precise same in every facet so that it's illustrated a different way.

He didn't create anything. It all existed. He simply infused portions of himself into it, and now says that he is it, in short, but only specifically in their specific part of the universe.

We are circling a singular issue as has this entire thread it seems. Wok still makes the most sense. You don't have a powerful argument here unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Yes and your analogy does not work.

Yeah he did not create it that does not influecne or impact my point because after he did what he did the world became him. He infused portions of himself in everything of the existing universe and provided all the energy it required to create the universe it is at the moment. A chain reaction only makes sense if he provided a few particles which weight and energy and then it did the rest, it is very clearlt not that

You can say what you want about me not having a powrful argument but you are wrong. Ultima seems to find the part where he explicitly states all of the world as a simple part of him as enough proof of High 3-A and I think that is all that is needed.
 
Rocker1189 said:
Yes and your analogy does not work.

Yeah he did not create it that does not influecne or impact my point because after he did what he did the world became him. He infused portions of himself in everything of the existing universe and provided all the energy it required to create the universe it is at the moment.

You can say what you want about me not having a powrful argument but you are wrong. Ultima seems to find the part where he explicitly states all of the world as a simple part of him as enough proof of High 3-A and I think that is all that is needed.
Click to expand...
It does, you just don't want to buy into it, and that's fine.

He did not provide all the energy for the universe to exist, not from anything you've shown. His particles simply helped it mold into what it is. He himself directly states he did not create it as it is, so you can't bypass that and try to claim he is somehow.

One person agreeing does not a point create. Ultima also asked for context on him claiming all of the universe is part of him, but other scans show him saying in this part of the universe.

You're just ignoring counterevidence to try and rush this through since someone agreed, nebulously, with you. You're above that mate
 
Xulrev said:
It does, you just don't want to buy into it, and that's fine.

He did not provide all the energy for the universe to exist, not from anything you've shown. His particles simply helped it mold into what it is. He himself directly states he did not create it as it is, so you can't bypass that and try to claim he is somehow.

One person agreeing does not a point create. Ultima also asked for context on him claiming all of the universe is part of him, but other scans show him saying in this part of the universe.

You're just ignoring counterevidence to try and rush this through since someone agreed, nebulously, with you. You're above that mate
Click to expand...
He says that he did not create it directly, you are just ignoring specific points that he is saying.

Emmited h-particles from his body and unleashed powerful energy from them: https://i.imgur.com/V9CKf4U.png

these particles broke down all the existing particles and gave them weight:https://i.imgur.com/6RPRPb9.png

And all those particles went on to form things:https://i.imgur.com/UlzAGCB.png

this completely breaks down your ponits he provided all the energy with his particles and body to all the existing particles and gives them weight from there thus the energy that forms the universe is all fro him.

He said that the evidence for all the world beign part of him is good enough for High 3-A and I provided that multiple times now:

https://i.imgur.com/XQote7f.png

Again how much more explicit do you want it..

DDM also agreed with him.

I am not ignoring anything, else I wont have been replying to every single comment and point about this. You are above baseless claims.
 
@Rocker

His particles literally just upset a carefully maintained balance, per his explicit words. If I have a giant scale with 2 planets on each side and it's in balance, and I gently press on one end of the scale, I'm not planetary, I just upset the balance and it'll tip one way.

Everything was in balance. He broke the balance. Things went off their own separate ways and combined into new matter.

That's not a Tier 3 feat. At all. He did NOTHING noteworthy here beyond some molecular manipulation.
 
Xulrev said:
@Rocker
His particles literally just upset a carefully maintained balance, per his explicit words. If I have a giant scale with 2 planets on each side and it's in balance, and I gently press on one end of the scale, I'm not planetary, I just upset the balance and it'll tip one way.

Everything was in balance. He broke the balance. Things went off their own separate ways and combined into new matter.

That's not a Tier 3 feat. At all. He did NOTHING noteworthy here beyond some molecular manipulation.
Click to expand...
And you ignore for the hundredth time that he literally gave energy and weight to every particle by his own power. He did not just give them a gentle tank he did molecular manipulation on the scale of an infinite universe. Honestly you are not making sense and just nitpiking in an extreme fashion.

You ignore again that he provided all the energy to particles that are doing nothing.

And again all of the universe baecame just a part of him that still makes him High 3-A in the end even if he really initially did nothing,
 
AstralKing7 said:
If u are the universe itself u will scale to universal. This isn't new at all on this site. What's the problem here
Click to expand...
The problem is that he blatanty isn't the universe. Small parts of him are strewn throughout the universe. We have no clue what concentration, we have no clue how much he can manipulate, we have no clue what his range, potency, abilities with this are.

We know he spread some particles and it helped forge the universe, and then he says that in a certain part of the universe his particles are everywhere.
 
Lmfao after reading Xrlev argument I can tell he is either not knowledgeable on the series or is jsut downplaying.

The Warrior God Acala has been tier 3 for the longest even since the first chapter. He literally created the galaxy as a simple feat and this latest chapter further expands his power
 
@Rocker

He explicitly didn't manipulate every particle, he broke the balance, and suddenly when it wasn't a singularity it gained weight and gravity became a thing.

This is just reaching at this point. More Staff input is needed since this is just going over the precise same scans
 
Xulrev said:
The problem is that he blatanty isn't the universe. Small parts of him are strewn throughout the universe. We have no clue what concentration, we have no clue how much he can manipulate, we have no clue what his range, potency, abilities with this are.

We know he spread some particles and it helped forge the universe, and then he says that in a certain part of the universe his particles are everywhere.
Click to expand...
Except he is blatantly the universe holy shit dude:

https://i.imgur.com/XQote7f.png

how many times till you acknowledge this scan.

You interpretation of his abilities would mean that any samurai coud just oneshot the universe with their power over h-particles.
 
Simply get Don't Talk here, it's as simple as that. But as far as I'm concerned and after giving this thread a read this looks more akin to range and matter manipulation as opposed to actual AP.
 
AstralKing7 said:
Lmfao after reading Xrlev argument I can tell he is either not knowledgeable on the series or is jsut downplaying.
The Warrior God Acala has been tier 3 for the longest even since the first chapter. He literally created the galaxy as a simple feat and this latest chapter further expands his power
Click to expand...
Glad to see we resorted to personal attacks this rapidly, weird how it always happens when you're around.

Regardless, I don't care what others are rated. We are examining specific feats. Either examine them or leave the discussion.
 
He isn't the entire universe itself, just the h-particles that spread throughout so the matter that makes up the "universe" is somewhat linked to him.Unless the entire universe had like infinite matter or something I don't think this could work since he specefically influences the matter only that makes up this "space". Even then it's still a chain reaction feat.

I pretty much agree with Wokistan and Xulrev though.

Our universe
 
i'll retract my previous agreement of the proposed rating , i'm neutral right now as some counter arguments do make sense.

i'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject to know wich is right
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
He isn't the entire universe itself, just the h-particles that spread throughout so the matter that makes up the "universe" is somewhat linked to him.Unless the entire universe had like infinite matter or something I don't think this could work since he specefically influences the matter only that makes up this "space".
I pretty much agree with Wokistan and Xulrev though.
Click to expand...
Except that he states that just a part of himself and specifies everything the universe contains as just a part of himself.

nd the universe can indeed have infinite matter it is an infinte sized universe.
 
Naeblis495 said:
i'll retract my previous agreement of the proposed rating , i'm neutral right now as some counter arguments do make sense.
i'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject to know wich is right
Click to expand...
I would admit that some counter arguments make sense but I believe that this scan clears things up:

https://i.imgur.com/XQote7f.png
 
Xulrev said:
@Rocker
He explicitly didn't manipulate every particle, he broke the balance, and suddenly when it wasn't a singularity it gained weight and gravity became a thing.

This is just reaching at this point. More Staff input is needed since this is just going over the precise same scans
Click to expand...
No he gave every particle weight there is no explicit about him not manipulating every particle him simply did not direct their behaviour after giving them weight.
 
@Rocker

Our universe is technically infinite as well hence the terms universe and observable universe. For him to be the entirety of the universe he'd need to shoot out infinite h-particles to affect the infinite matter already there in the universe. So they'd need to be moving at infinite speed to reach an infinite universe completely.

I rather assume it's the observable universe that all of that happened.

Other things that bother me is that he specifically uses the words World and Universe, I don't see why they'd be the same thing.
 
@Rocker

Relying on the 'all of this world' scan is just silly. He doesn't say universe, for one, even though that term is repeatedly used.

For two, if he were universal and everything were part of him from the beginning, why would he point out he didn't create the universe?

For three, if he were universal, why did it explicitly take an exceptionally long time for his H-particles to mold the universe into what it is?

Relating this to AP is wrong. It's matter manip over time.
 
Also Zamasu is a bit different, for one he's directly stated to be fusing with the fabric of time and space and began to branch out into other timelines. So unless this dude has direct statements of fusing with the very fabric of both time and space then there is no possibility of High 3-A.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
@Rocker
Our universe is technically infinite as well hence the terms universe and observable universe. For him to be the entirety of the universe he'd need to shoot out infinite h-particles to affect the infinite matter already there in the universe. So they'd need to be moving at infinite speed to reach an infinite universe completely.

I rather assume it's the observable universe.
Click to expand...
No our universe being infnite is an entire unknown. You are saying all of that as if that should somehoe hinder him? So what if he has infinite speed? He is also an information aggregation which is just as impossible since information cant just exist on its own. And is in a state of being both alive and dead. Those are all impossibilities heck h-particled are only 1 part of his body which has 3 parts with the other 2 being unkwnowns.

That makes no sense when a universe is stated to be infinite on the wiki we go for it being infinite we dont just downgrade to "observable universe" that is what is assumed with no statement of it being infinite.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Also Zamasu is a bit different, for one he's directly stated to be fusing with the fabric of time and space and began to branch out into other timelines. So unless this dude has direct statements of fusing with the very fabric of both time and space then there is no possibility of High 3-A.
Click to expand...
time and space is Low 2-C, he is just space so far which is High 3-A so that is in fact High 3-A. Also yet again he has a direct statement where he says that all of the world and everything in it is just a part of him, are you guys just ignoring that?
 
Xulrev said:
@Rocker
Relying on the 'all of this world' scan is just silly. He doesn't say universe, for one, even though that term is repeatedly used.

For two, if he were universal and everything were part of him from the beginning, why would he point out he didn't create the universe?

For three, if he were universal, why did it explicitly take an exceptionally long time for his H-particles to mold the universe into what it is?

Relating this to AP is wrong. It's matter manip over time.
Click to expand...
dude all of this world and what it contains, it is very clearly universe the least it could mean is planet which is very obviously wrong. And it is not silly at all what kind of rubbish statement is that no offence because it contradicts you? And you point out that universe is repeatedly used so reall ywhat was the point in this statement?

Because he did not? None of that is a contradiiction he became the universe only after fusing with it.

Becuase he did not direct the molding it happened naturally he only gave them the power to mold in the fiirst place.

And all the power to do that was related to him in the first place and doesnot matter since just a part of him is the world.
 
Rocker1189 said:
That makes no sense when a universe is stated to be infinite on the wiki we go for it being infinite we dont just downgrade to "observable universe" that is what is assumed with no statement of it being infinite.
Click to expand...
Yes no one is denying the universe itself is infinite I said it myself. But the way I interpert it via the use of both world, universe, and galaxies. Is that these are seperate things. Also you didn't exactly address my entire post.

Pretty much every staff agrees the creation bit means pretty much nothing since it's unquantifable, only the part where he says "this whole world is a part of me" seems to be gaining discussion regarding his tier. But like I said it's just my opinion because I don't he reason to refer to universe and both world and universe if there wasn't a difference.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Yes no one is denying the universe itself is infinite I said it myself. But the way I interpert it via the use of both world, universe, and galaxies. Is that these are seperate things. Also you didn't exactly address my entire post.

Pretty much every staff agrees the creation bit means pretty much nothing since it's unquantifable, only the part where he says "this whole world". But like I said it's just my opinion because I don't he reason to refer to universe and both world and universe if there wasn't a difference.
Click to expand...
I dont see what else there was to address and I dont really gget your point overall with what you are sying, yes world, universe and galaxies are said a lot.

why wont he? world and universe literally mean the same thing unless you mean planet or societ neither of which fit his point in anyway way thhus universe makes the most sense. Notice the and everything it contains bit it is clearly the universe.
 
boy this thread is really big

can I get a TL;DR on what needs reviewed by me here? not knowledgeable on the verse but I'm willing to moderate.
 
Well it's clearly not Low 2-C nor 3-A since he actually didn't make a universe, it already existed and was just filled with motionless matter.

I'm honestly not sure what tier it is since he release H-particles that triggered a domino effect of the already existing matter of the universe.

It honestly doesn't feel quantifiable since his particles triggered that chain reaction from planets till galaxies throughout the universe with already existing matter. It also occured over time clearly. Sigurd even points out Fudo's admission of having not made the galaxy itself, it was a chain reaction.
 
IMade seems to be in agreement with me on that point, and it's also simply....factually correct.

@Bambu

it's complicated.

The 'god' of this verse showed up, everything existed but was in a state of balance, so he threw that into disarray to form the universe over time, but claims that all 'in this world' is a part of him, so the debate is over what tier that would qualify as.

I personally think it's just standard cut and dry matter manip of an unquantifiable scale.

Rocker believes it's a blatant High 3-A feat.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
boy this thread is really big
can I get a TL;DR on what needs reviewed by me here? not knowledgeable on the verse but I'm willing to moderate.
Click to expand...
essentially I would just lay down the facts and try to be unbiased I wuld give my view on it though but would try not to misrepresent the other side:

Fudo Myoo arrives from another universe to an infinite world of nothing but particles doing nothing and they formed nothing.

then all this happened:

Emmited h-particles from his body and unleashed powerful energy from them: https://i.imgur.com/V9CKf4U.png

these particles broke down all the existing particles and gave them weight:https://i.imgur.com/6RPRPb9.png

And all those particles went on to form things:https://i.imgur.com/UlzAGCB.png

this formed the universe as it is now.

There are a few points that I and other disagree with.

others say it is a simple chain reaction I do agree that yes the final bit is in fact a chain reaction howveer I disagree that it does not scale to his AP because of the fact that he as stated above fused with the existing particles and gave then all his energy to proivde weight and gravity and while he says that he did not create everythig which is correct ir does not mean his power had no hand in it, he simply let it run its course over tie after provding the energy.

Now the second point is that he is not the entire universe. This was true before he arrived of course. However he states that the world and everything in it is just a part of himself:

https://i.imgur.com/XQote7f.png

this I think makes him High 3-A regardless of how the world began because of the fact that it would mean that an infinte sized universe is just a part of his body.

Other do rightfully point out that he states that a specific part of the universe is made of h-particles which is his body:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:D6a4303b4a491e5d9ecb8afe96118415.png

but I think that is a misinterpreation of his point, because the part of the universe he is talking about is where all we know of the samurai that use h-particles (his body) exist thus yes a lot moer h-particles would be at that part.

Finally I am trying to support my with the fact that he claims that space is now h-particles which again is a part of his body:

https://i.imgur.com/G2wVyL5.png

which would of course be throughout the universe and that all that space contains other dimensions and infinites:

https://i.imgur.com/t50xovP.png

thus I think he warrants a High 3-A rating.
 
Also he never states there is infinite matter which is what he affected. He instead there was a vast amount implying it was a finite amount. Just thought I should mention that.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Also he never states there is infinite matter which is what he affected. He instead there was a vast amount implying it was a finite amount. Just thought I should mention that.
Click to expand...
Vast does not mean finite in anyway way, it just means that there is a lot of it, which can mean anything from finite to infinite.

In fact sysnonyms of vast includes immeasureabel and boundless.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
snip
Click to expand...
imagine reading manga

Alright, well I can safely say that I agree, that isn't a High 3-A feat. Or an AP feat in general, it seems to just be the setting off of a chain reaction. Introduce unspecified amount of "H-Matter", cause all existing matter in the universe to, overtime, form things and bits which form other things and bits and so on.

Based on all this, wouldn't give the god a solid tier rating at all.
 
AstralKing7 said:
The fact that the universe is him and everything that is in it gives him a tier itself.
Click to expand...
You could interpret this as a Tier 3 feat but I feel like the statement doesn't have enough context tbh.
 
AstralKing7 said:
The fact that the universe is him and everything that is in it gives him a tier itself.
Click to expand...

He isn't one with the fabric of time, so no that clearly isn't the case, even Rocker admitted such. Let's not use the word "everything." so loosely as that would imply he's one with both time and space.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
You could interpret this as a Tier 3 feat but I feel like the statement doesn't have enough context tbh.
Click to expand...
I am not sure what else is needed if all of the world and everything in it is said to be just a part of himself tbh. It sounds pretty explicit to me.
 
Honestly, Fudo's rating should be "Unknown, at least far higher than 5-A (should be greater than the best feats shown so far in the series)".

Without a doubt an actual concrete feat will show up, we've literally barely been introduced to Fudo himself. I'm sure Kishi isnt done with him yet.
 
Mostly I would need context that the statement is legitimate. That phrase alone is oftentimes just boasting/flowery language.
 
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