Sam Fisher tier change

[Assembled1801]

Would Sam be a Wall level 9-B tier since he can knockout trained guys by subduing or break bones. Or will his durability to be Wall Level that he can survive helicopter crashes?

 

[KLOL506]

He can fight on par with enemies that can harm him. With him being able to break bones with grip strength alone and killing his targets on the spot, that's blatant Wall level in and out of itself.

 

[Assembled1801]

He can fight on par with enemies that can harm him. With him being able to break bones with grip strength alone and killing his targets on the spot, that's blatant Wall level in and out of itself.

When are going to change his tier yet?

 

[KLOL506]

Let's get a few experts.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Agree with OP

 

[KLOL506]

There's also...the issue of Wildlands. With Sam's appearance there being confirmed canon and him being comparable to the Wildlands protagonist, who is Wall level too, there's essentially nothing denying it.

Sad to see famous verses like these not being properly researched.

 

[Hellbeast1]

It's less poor research and more or rules could be rather nebulous (neck snaps) or crossovers were outright not allowed once upon a time

 

[Assembled1801]

So his stats not gonna be changed or upgraded?

 

[KLOL506]

It's less poor research and more or rules could be rather nebulous (neck snaps) or crossovers were outright not allowed once upon a time

Fisher appearing in Wildlands is canon, so to speak.

Anyway, Fisher can take multiple bullets and doesn't die that easy. Plus he's got the helicopter thing for him which is blatant Wall level.

Not only that, he KO's other comparable guys wearing kevlar armor

Funny thing is, Jason Brody was Street level for getting mauled by tigers, which are Wall level animals.

EDIT: I checked. Fisher, in combination with the grip tactic, even bends the entire head at severe angles. This is no ordinary neck snap. He also destroys a commode by repeatedly banging a man's head against it. And breaks a basin by punching a man into it.

 

[KLOL506]

Sans undertale rekts these fodders

Pfffffft. 47 throws his briefcase.

 

[KLOL506]

I found this interesting feat where Sam casually breaks apart a protective glass barrier and hilariously beats up a guy whose fall violently cracked a stone table.

 

[KLOL506]

SAM FISHER CASUALLY SHATTERS A DOOR, completely wiping it out in the process, and as a result, sends a guy into a wall so hard it breaks part of it.

Now that's easily Wall level thanks to Bambu's door-busting calc which is also in the Attack Potency section. And the wall thing.

I now have no problems with this anymore. I fully agree with the upgrades.

 

[Huesito88]

Any bullet timing speed feats for Sams?

 

[KLOL506]

I'm checking now.

 

[KLOL506]

Sadly, no bullet-timing feats.

 

[Assembled1801]

Sam is only peak human+ with superhuman agility

 

[Huesito88]

I find that hard to believe tbh.

 

[KLOL506]

Same, if anything, he should be Subsonic for blitzing fodder like that.

 

[Assembled1801]

Same, if anything, he should be Subsonic for blitzing fodder like that.

I think I agree with that.

 

[Assembled1801]

So should I edit his stats yet?

 

[KLOL506]

I'll do it with the appropriate feats, since this doesn't seem controversial at all.

 

[Assembled1801]

Fair enough.

 

[KLOL506]

The updates have been put into place. You can now ask a moderator or admin to close the thread now that it's been concluded.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What? I get AP and Durability, but being subsonic for blitzing fodder people doesn't make sense unless its extremly impressive. What actual speed feats does he have?

 

[KLOL506]

Blitzing 4 guards right before they can pull the trigger and viewing them in slow-motion. It's in the white house mission, and that's not his best blitzing feat (he's blitzed even more guards). He's also been shown to dodge gunfire, but that part could be aim-dodging or PIS (Which is neither, because Sam never dodges them in the first place).

Even fodder enemies can overwhelm Sam at times.

 

[Qawsedf234]

When did he do the first feat? Even then if they were taken by surprise it may not even be that.

 

[KLOL506]

Splinter Cell Conviction (And it's in the White House mission, at the last leg), and no, they were not taken by surprise, they were fully active and moving about restlessly trying to gun him down, but Sam blitzed them anyway.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The closest thing I found to what you described was this scene where every single guard had their guns down, were taken utterly by surprise, and Sam used their leader as a body shield. I don't think it warrents subsonic

 

[KLOL506]

Sam is capable of blitzing normal enemies in normal gameplay much faster than in the White House mission if you don't use a hostage.

 

[KLOL506]

He's also on par with the Wildlands protagonist, who might have some impressive feats himself. I'll have to check, since I haven't played Wildlands yet.

 

[Qawsedf234]

From what I saw in the video every instance of him blitzing people relied on surprise and it being so dark that they quickly and easily lost track of Sam's position. Using gameplay is also iffy considering it may not even be the canonically way Sam cleared the room.

All in all I see evidence for peak human, but none of subsonic. So I think his general speed should be "Peak human, supersonic with weapons"

 

[KLOL506]

Sometimes, they are the canon way Sam cleared rooms.

But oh well. I guess the weapon part can be added.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sure there are canon ways for Sam to clear a room, but in the one canon way I saw (after he shot the VP) he relied on stealth, surprise, and then the darkness to rapidly kill some dudes who had no idea he was there. Just not good enough imo.

 

[KLOL506]

Then again, that part is never mentioned or even used again upon meeting the Wildlands protagonist.

 

[KLOL506]

There's a mechanic in the game called Execution that allows you to dispatch multiple enemies locking onto you before they can even pull the trigger, and it doesn't slow down time.

 

[Qawsedf234]

From the previous video whenever Sam did that his opponents weren't even fully aware he was there and he didn't use it on active threats. Presumably that's the same throughout the game, where Sam rapidly kills people due to stealth and surprise rather than pure speed.

 

[KLOL506]

Not when he engages in full-blown combat. That's where Mark and Execute (Sorry, that's the real name) comes in. Everything around him slows down and he pulls off kills.

 

[KLOL506]

Here

 

[Qawsedf234]

In that video not one of his opponents until the last guy had his gun focused on Sam, and with the last guy there was a friendly body shield. In fact in that video almost all of them react with visible surprise showing they had no idea Sam was coming and were taken off guard.

 

[KLOL506]

Even if they're on their guard, Sam can still take them and gun them down with ease. He also views his foes in slow-mo, if that means anything.