Saitama vs Kenshiro

[Robo432343]

Saitama

Saitama (サイタマ?) is a human from Z-City who; through rigorous (sort of) training broke through his human limiters and achieved unbelievable strength and abilities. Never breaking a sweat, the name One Punch Man is fitting for the effortless wins Saitama has achieved through the series. Never...

vsbattles.fandom.com

vs

Kenshiro (Hokuto no Ken)

Kenshiro (拳けん士し郎ろう, Kenshirō?) is the protagonist of the Hokuto no Ken franchise, the 64th successor of the Hokuto Shinken style of martial arts, and the greatest of all of them in its 1,800 years. Originally an orphan from Taiseiden, Asura, and a descendant of the Hokuto Sōke bloodline, he was...

vsbattles.fandom.com

SBA
Distance: 50m
Speed =

 

[Robo432343]

lets hope this aint a stomp

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Saitama can kill Kenshiro with a breeze, but Kenshiro has an absolutely ungodly skill advantage, like, this shit is wild, also multiple forms of dura neg and also musou tensei. I'm gonna wait for other people bcuz this could just be a stomp for Saitama, but I'm interested to see if Kenshiro could pull through. Although, given Kenny's hax, this could be a stomp for him

 

[Kachon123]

Is this High 6-A Saitama? If it is then Kenshiro probably stomps.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Is this High 6-A Saitama? If it is then Kenshiro probably stomps.

This is SBA, so current timeline Saitama

 

[DavidTPPM]

Saitama can kill Kenshiro with a breeze, but Kenshiro has an absolutely ungodly skill advantage, like, this shit is wild, also multiple forms of dura neg and also musou tensei. I'm gonna wait for other people bcuz this could just be a stomp for Saitama, but I'm interested to see if Kenshiro could pull through. Although, given Kenny's hax, this could be a stomp for him

From what I'm reading Kenshiro can just like, gain NEP with an ability and as far as I remember Saitama can't interact with that.
This kinda seems like Saitama just gets skill stomped and dura negged

 

[Kachon123]

From what I'm reading Kenshiro can just like, gain NEP with an ability and as far as I remember Saitama can't interact with that.

Ehh, Saitama has Garou level of busted technique copying but even better to the point to where he can copy God's techniques, which originate from his 5D dimension. Saitama should definitely be able to copy Kenshiro's technique. Saitama was also able to interact with hyperspace gates, which are also seemingly 5D structures that allow entry to God's higher dimension.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Oooh man…

Ehh, Saitama has Garou level of busted technique copying but even better

No… learning something that's specifically shown to you with the intent of you learning it ≠ power mimicry. All we've seen Saitama actually copy mid battle are like, basic karate chops.

Also from what I heard that scan is a mistranslation which would be pretty consistent with how badly Viz tends to translate OPM. The original fan translation is much more in line with the context of the chapters and what Garou actually saw Saitama do.

to the point to where he can copy God's techniques, which originate from his 5D dimension.

First of all, that's not 5D but 4D. Yk, higher than standard 3D.
Second of all, originating somewhere means literally nothing. Like honestly why would "originating in a higher dimension" mean ANYTHING about the complexity of the technique?
Lastly "power of god" ≠ "gods techniques".

Saitama should definitely be able to copy Kenshiro's technique. Saitama was also able to interact with hyperspace gates, which are also seemingly 5D structures that allow entry to God's higher dimension.

Again, a hyperspace is not a 5D construct. It's without further evidence 4D at best. And even then the statement can be translated as "subspace" which would just outright not mean anything. And Garou states he can teleport anywhere within his line of sight which makes it being 4D pretty questionable. Furthermore Saitama only interacted with the 3D projection which basically means nothing.

Saitama never copied anything that would imply he could copy gaining NEP and doesn't even copy stuff in character unless he's bloodlusted.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

This already happened and it was a stomp. I don’t see what changes from last time.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Also from what I heard that scan is a mistranslation which would be pretty consistent with how badly Viz tends to translate OPM. The original fan translation is much more in line with the context of the chapters and what Garou actually saw Saitama do.

Isn't this scan used for Saitama's power mimicry scale > garou

First of all, that's not 5D but 4D. Yk, higher than standard 3D.
Second of all, originating somewhere means literally nothing. Like honestly why would "originating in a higher dimension" mean ANYTHING about the complexity of the technique?
Lastly "power of god" ≠ "gods techniques".

You can't say that with such conviction, the higher dimension scan says that "God's dimension ignores size, distance and energy" this statement may very well be 5D, or even low 1-A since even high 1-B dimensions are limited by distance and size

Again, a hyperspace is not a 5D construct. It's without further evidence 4D at best. And even then the statement can be translated as "subspace" which would just outright not mean anything. And Garou states he can teleport anywhere within his line of sight which makes it being 4D pretty questionable. Furthermore Saitama only interacted with the 3D projection which basically means nothing.

Hyperspace is already well-founded within the verse as a higher dimension where cause-effect does not exist and you can see possibilities/timelines as 3D objects.

Saitama never copied anything that would imply he could copy gaining NEP and doesn't even copy stuff in character unless he's bloodlusted.

It doesn't matter Saitama just overcomes the action speed of musou tensei and takes a shot with his insane AD

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

What is actually stopping Kenshiro from using Muso Tensei instantly here? He has precognition and analytical prediction, so he’s not gonna **** around and find out, because he will just know Saitama will one punch him.

 

[FireSwordHero]

Yeah no Saitama has no chance of winning this. Saitama has this habit of not taking fights seriously and generally holds back around human opponents. If anything Kenshiro will attack him via his pressure points, only for Saitama to be confused by his "wierd poking" moments before he is blown up.

That being said if this was written in OPM style, Saitama would probably just get a headache and feel like he's got cramps LMAO

 

[DavidTPPM]

Isn't this scan used for Saitama's power mimicry scale > garou

?

You can't say that with such conviction, the higher dimension scan says that "God's dimension ignores size, distance and energy" this statement may very well be 5D, or even low 1-A since even high 1-B dimensions are limited by distance and size

It could secretly be high 0-A for all I care. My point is that the current evidence doesn't point towards anything higher than 4D and even that is very questionable as a "higher dimension" absolutely does not have to refer to a place with an additional spatial or temporal dimension.

Hyperspace is already well-founded within the verse as a higher dimension where cause-effect does not exist and you can see possibilities/timelines as 3D objects.

No, that's Voids hax ability. We know it's hax because the place makes Void himself appear bigger than the supposed "timeline" (which just shows Flashy and Sonic) and yet when he throws an attack towards it, it barely doesn't damage the size of a mountain.

It doesn't matter Saitama just overcomes the action speed of musou tensei and takes a shot with his insane AD

Saitamas amped AD took over a whole chapter to start being noticeable, and even then didn't seem to amp his speed (which is why he's not MFTL).
So he absolutely doesn't overcome anything with AD here.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

It could secretly be high 0-A for all I care. My point is that the current evidence doesn't point towards anything higher than 4D and even that is very questionable as a "higher dimension" absolutely does not have to refer to a place with an additional spatial or temporal dimension.

It's an additional dimension, you can't question that when "size and distance" are mentioned in the same sentence as higher dimension

No, that's Voids hax ability. We know it's hax because the place makes Void himself appear bigger than the supposed "timeline" (which just shows Flashy and Sonic) and yet when he throws an attack towards it, it barely doesn't damage the size of a mountain.

Yes, void attacks from hyperspace, and the other bubbles with galaxies inside, not just Sonic and Flash, and how can the demonstrated AP matter here? The conversation was not about the validity of hyperspace inside from the verse ?

Saitamas amped AD took over a whole chapter to start being noticeable, and even then didn't seem to amp his speed (which is why he's not MFTL).
So he absolutely doesn't overcome anything with AD here.

AHis AD still surpasses that of Garou, who can go from sub-rel to FTL 4c in 0.0013 seconds.

What is actually stopping Kenshiro from using Muso Tensei instantly here? He has precognition and analytical prediction, so he’s not gonna **** around and find out, because he will just know Saitama will one punch him.

Isn't Musou tensei a defensive technique that is only activated as an instinctive action? Why is it being used as an attack combo here? Saitama just needs to overcome his instinctive action which has far fewer feats than Garou's, and this thing that Saitama holds back against humanoids is collective madness ,in the martial arts tournament , and his fight with Snack shows this well, he only holds back when he is curious about something opponent, it was like that with Shiryu, Garou and Boros, he also gave his death punch to Flash as the first move

 

[Robo432343]

can saitama bypass the infinite fighting variations

 

[karo_senpaii]

Saitama insides are as durable as his body. Will duraneg even work?

 

[Robo432343]

3-C insides???

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Saitama insides are as durable as his body. Will duraneg even work?

As far as I understand, yes. The durability of your organs don’t matter to Hokuto Shinken, as it changes the functions of them more so (which I’m pretty sure is how people explode to begin with.) That’s ignoring the other durability negating techniques (Nanto Seiken go SHOU)

Isn't Musou tensei a defensive technique that is only activated as an instinctive action? Why is it being used as an attack combo here?

Yes it is a defensive technique, but he can still do things he can normally do while using MT.

Saitama just needs to overcome his instinctive action which has far fewer feats than Garou's

Looking at Garou’s Instinctive Action feats, and what’s listed on the FOTNS Martial Arts page, yeah no, I don’t see it as better, especially with Kenshiro having MT. Also, he would need to overcome it first, which once MT is already in use, good luck.

 

[karo_senpaii]

As far as I understand, yes. The durability of your organs don’t matter to Hokuto Shinken, as it changes the functions of them more so (which I’m pretty sure is how people explode to begin with.) That’s ignoring the other durability negating techniques (Nanto Seiken go SHOU)

You would need to explain it better coz I'm not familiar with the verse and the description I'm reading on his profile he pours energy through the pressure points he hits and they blow up internally. Because it's not jut a thing of durable organs, it's to the level where he can hold anti matter particles in him and be completely fine. So is it some form of transmutation or?

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

You would need to explain it better coz I'm not familiar with the verse and the description I'm reading on his profile he pours energy through the pressure points he hits and they blow up internally. Because it's not jut a thing of durable organs, it's to the level where he can hold anti matter particles in him and be completely fine. So is it some form of transmutation or?

I think Twellas in the last thread described it better than I could. But yes, that description of pressure points I would say is correct, but they are not the same as anti matter particles (also, scans for the anti-matter particles not affecting him? I don’t even see resistances to that, let alone Durability Negation so that really confuses me)

Also no, it is not transmutation, he isn’t turning people into completely different objects or anything like that.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I think Twellas in the last thread described it better than I could. But yes, that description of pressure points I would say is correct, but they are not the same as anti matter particles (also, scans for the anti-matter particles not affecting him? I don’t even see resistances to that, let alone Durability Negation so that really confuses me)

Also no, it is not transmutation, he isn’t turning people into completely different objects or anything like that.

The previous thread his scan isn't there anymore so I could not really understand it. I'm not saying they sre the same as anti matter particles. What I'm saying is it's not just a matter of internal durability. I'm not on PC right now so dropping scans is a headache. Would do that later.
Oh I guess no one ever updated his profile but I think he has a crt for that

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Looking at Garou’s Instinctive Action feats, and what’s listed on the FOTNS Martial Arts page, yeah no, I don’t see it as better, especially with Kenshiro having MT. Also, he would need to overcome it first, which once MT is already in use, good luck.

The justifications for instinctive action in Garou's profile are bad, he can fight while sleeping and yet he has access to his entire RE/AD/mimicry arsenal, being able to defeat martial masters like Bomb and Bang that far surpass in skill the atomic samurai disciples who can do this

Yes it is a defensive technique, but he can still do things he can normally do while using MT.

Has he ever done this in character?

 

[Robo432343]

Has he ever done this in character?

yes .

 

[Epiccheev]

I mean, even if we assume Saitama could somehow copy Muso Tensei (wich also requires a specific mental state to achieve, something Saitama/Garou haven't been shown to copy) Kenshiro kinda needs only 1 tap and it's over. His in character behaviour just makes him way more likely to kill Saitama first.

 

[Robo432343]

I mean, even if we assume Saitama could somehow copy Muso Tensei (wich also requires a specific mental state to achieve, something Saitama/Garou haven't been shown to copy) Kenshiro kinda needs only 1 tap and it's over. His in character behaviour just makes him way more likely to kill Saitama first.

but saitama can also 1 tap kenshiro before MT activates

 

[Twellas]

The previous thread his scan isn't there anymore so I could not really understand it. I'm not saying they sre the same as anti matter particles. What I'm saying is it's not just a matter of internal durability. I'm not on PC right now so dropping scans is a headache. Would do that later.
Oh I guess no one ever updated his profile but I think he has a crt for that

Ken's pressure points do stuff like making your own heart stronger to the point where it makes your veins explode, makes your back muscles stronger so they contract and snap your spine, paralyses your muscles etc etc, it's not as if Ken sets off an explosion inside the opponent that has AP equal to himself, it's just that the organs are altered. One guidebook proposes that the way in which pressure points cause explosions is by quickly forcing the opponent's nervous system (pituitary gland) to secrete an abnormal amount of ADH that SOMEHOW (ADH isn't supposed to work like this on cells other than the ones on the Distal Convoluted Tube cells, I guess you could technically achieve the same thing by using the ADH's vasoconstrictor properties but I digress) basically tells the cells of whatever organ Ken wants to blow up to just accumulate a ton of water until they explode, in turn causing the whole organ to explode. Now, this really makes no ******* sense neither from a scientific standpoint nor fictional one, but it goes to show that the authors REALLY want to push the idea that it's not just a simple explosion going off inside the opponent.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Ken's pressure points do stuff like making your own heart stronger to the point where it makes your veins explode, makes your back muscles stronger so they contract and snap your spine, paralyses your muscles etc etc, it's not as if Ken sets off an explosion inside the opponent that has AP equal to himself, it's just that the organs are altered. One guidebook proposes that the way in which pressure points cause explosions is by quickly forcing the opponent's nervous system (pituitary gland) to secrete an abnormal amount of ADH that SOMEHOW (ADH isn't supposed to work like this on cells other than the ones on the Distal Convoluted Tube cells, I guess you could technically achieve the same thing by using the ADH's vasoconstrictor properties but I digress) basically tells the cells of whatever organ Ken wants to blow up to just accumulate a ton of water until they explode, in turn causing the whole organ to explode. Now, this really makes no ******* sense neither from a scientific standpoint nor fictional one, but it goes to show that the authors REALLY want to push the idea that it's not just a simple explosion going off inside the opponent.

The issue is if his internals are 3c then no amount of water would make the organ explode for example. And how is a H6a character making a 3c heart stronger? Ngl I'm confused on his entire thing. I'd just stay neutral

 

[Twellas]

It's just biological manipulation. Do you think the human body has enough water to blow up a H6A organ? and yet it does it, don't know what to tell you

 

[Kachon123]

Tatsumaki's Esper abilities directly target muscles and organs and yet Saitama was able to resist her by just flexing. I doubt that the force of his organs exploding can overcome Saitama's 3-C and Pre-Stellar muscle resistance strength.

 

[Kachon123]

It's just biological manipulation. Do you think the human body has enough water to blow up a H6A organ? and yet it does it, don't know what to tell you

Saitama has resistance to Biological Manipulation.

 

[Twellas]

Saitama has resistance to Biological Manipulation.

it's not on the profile, and if you're talking about him resisting the radiation, that's completely different from what pressure points to.

Also I don't really know why we're getting so hung up on the explosions when Ken has like 10 pressure points that can mind manip,, 2/3 that can turn superhumans into average humans by degrading their muscles and one that can remove your soul from your body. He has plenty of duraneg that would work, trust me, that's not an issue

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

it's not on the profile, and if you're talking about him resisting the radiation, that's completely different from what pressure points to.

I think it comes from his resistance to Psychokinesis (not like it matters that much)

 

[Kachon123]

it's not on the profile, and if you're talking about him resisting the radiation, that's completely different from what pressure points to.

Willpower and The Limiter (One-Punch Man)

The limiter (リミッター, Rimittā) is a barrier placed by God on all beings in the One-Punch Man world that restricts their physical growth[1]. The limiter acts as a sort of cap to an individual's growth, making it impossible to grow past a certain point[1]. There are different ways to bypass the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Read this.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Willpower and The Limiter (One-Punch Man)

The limiter (リミッター, Rimittā) is a barrier placed by God on all beings in the One-Punch Man world that restricts their physical growth[1]. The limiter acts as a sort of cap to an individual's growth, making it impossible to grow past a certain point[1]. There are different ways to bypass the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Read this.

Well that explains a lot, it isn’t even linked on his profile oddly enough. Also the resistance is limited, I doubt that’s even enough.

 

[Kachon123]

Well that explains a lot, it isn’t even linked on his profile oddly enough. Also the resistance is limited, I doubt that’s even enough.

It is, in his first key.

 

[Eseseso]

Hmm, definitely following.

But if internal attacks don't work, then Kenshiro would probably need Musou Tensei to win. The question is if he uses it before getting one-shot

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

It is, in his first key.

Oh, I may be a little stupid (it shouldn’t just say “Supernatural Willpower” though, as most people would probably just assume it leads to the normal page)

Still, the pressure points can still work on people who have Supernatural Willpower, as Kenshiro can affect Raoh and Raoh can affect Kenshiro for example (even if it is less effective against them, likely due to high pain tolerance and also could be due to their regeneration too, but the latter I doubt.)

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

The question is if he uses it before getting one-shot

I mean, given the Precognition and Analytical Prediction justifications, I don’t see why he wouldn’t use it right off the bat, because a single punch is going to wipe him off the map. He isn’t just going to let himself get one punched.

 

[Kachon123]

Still, the pressure points can still work on people who have Supernatural Willpower, as Kenshiro can affect Raoh and Raoh can affect Kenshiro for example (even if it is less effective against them, but it could be due to their regeneration too, but I doubt it.)

Saitama's Willpower manifests itself in different forms than the folks that Kenshiro could affect. There's no real way to compare them.

Other than "exploding" organs, what other affects do the pressure points have?

 

[Twellas]

Willpower and The Limiter (One-Punch Man)

The limiter (リミッター, Rimittā) is a barrier placed by God on all beings in the One-Punch Man world that restricts their physical growth[1]. The limiter acts as a sort of cap to an individual's growth, making it impossible to grow past a certain point[1]. There are different ways to bypass the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Read this.

I mean, it's literally got nothing to do with what pressure points do, it's just resistance to transformation pretty much, not to having your bodily functions altered by your own hormones.