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Saitama vs Chiaotzu (Android saga)

KaenDragneel123 said:
Chiaotzu is more skilled
And... Suicidal Explosion?
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Suicidal explosion would be his last resort, it would end up in a stalemate (unless this wikia states that suiciding with an explosion is a win for the character)
 
Xenomorphios said:
Suicidal explosion would be his last resort, it would end up in a stalemate (unless this wikia states that suiciding with an explosion is a win for the character)
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If is succesful

Yes
 
Saitama. Saitama with only a fraction of his full power deflected a planet-destroying beam with a punch. He was able to take a hit that sent him from Earth to the Moon with absolutely no damage, and landed back down, again, without any. Even if Chiaotzu used his suicide attack, the explosion would do next to nothing, and even before that Saitama can punch him into nothing but a blood spatter.
 
Speedbump from Chinatown said:
Saitama. Saitama with only a fraction of his full power deflected a planet-destroying beam with a punch. He was able to take a hit that sent him from Earth to the Moon with absolutely no damage, and landed back down, again, without any. Even if Chiaotzu used his suicide attack, the explosion would do next to nothing, and even before that Saitama can punch him into nothing but a blood spatter.
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Although Saitama may be stronger than currently in his profile, we can't just say that saitama is suddenly higher because this website only uses feats that were shown. So far Saitama with his current feats will lose to Saiyan Saga Goku (when fighting vegeta) which was already added to his losses. Chiaotzu by the android saga should be way above base Saiyan Saga Goku (possibly near saiyan saga Vegeta). Unless they upgrade Saitama with proof of better feats, he is not going above 5-B.
 
Xenomorphios is right. We cannot say he's far higher than Planet level as we need sufficient feats of him doing something above what he had done in his fight with Boros and Garou. All we do know is taht Saitama is likely far stronger due to all his feats being done casually. How strong, we don't know....
 
The amount of rigidness for "we cannot assume Saitama is stronger than he's shown" is stupidly high for some reason, and applied to only him.

Yes, his best feat is casual planet level, and we don't know HOW much stronger he is, but it was still very casual planet level. Applying the same logic applied to Saitama onto Chiatzu, he can't be higher than Small Planet, since that is his absolute best feat, and thus Saitama stomps.
 
That's what we do for literally every character who has an extremely casual feat, though? There's no reason it shouldn't apply to Saitama. Nobody's even saying he's LARGE Planet level. Just that a casual Planet level feat makes him at least Planet level.

I mean hell, as I already said, Chiaotzu has done nothing beyond Small Planet+ in canon, and we only assume he's "at least 5-B" because "he should probably be at that level.
 
Alright fine then, Jeez. Shit, why do i even bother commenting anyways about Saitama? Waste of my damn time anyways. -_-
 
You don't have to comment on Saitama threads. I don't want to almost 99% of the time, but the rigidness of something applied to only him is absurd.

Hell, one of the reasons he "lost" to Guldo is the fact that, despite Guldo's AP being lower than Saitama's durability and not having any way to ignore durability, he should supposedly "be able to hurt him with volume of punches, anyway". Not only is that incredibly debatable, but it's also something that's pretty much never taken into account unless there's a massive and exploitable speed gap between the fighters, which definitely wasn't the case, there.

An attempt to prevent wanking for a character who (thankfully) wasn't even wanked very much on this wiki in the first place has become an opportunity to severely downplay him and act as if he literally loses to anyone else in his tier.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
An attempt to prevent wanking for a character who (thankfully) wasn't even wanked very much on this wiki in the first place has become an opportunity to severely downplay him and act as if he literally loses to anyone else in his tier.
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well.. he pretty much does that. Anyone with speed equal to his and decent abilities is preeeety much the winner.
 
LordAizenSama said:
well.. he pretty much does that. Anyone with speed equal to his and decent abilities is preeeety much the winner.
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With decent abilities and much better speed, yes. Totally.

However, many people seem to think characters of his tier with a slight speed advantage will be able to win "just because", which is hilariously false, especially since everything he's done so far has been hilariously casual. It's like assuming Saitama's max speed isn't even 1.1x his casual speed.

Also, going to point out that both Boros and Garou were in casual Saitama's tier, and both had vastly superior abilities. Like...ridiculously superior. They both still lost without him exerting much effort. Why?

Because this is still him being very casual. Hence the "At least".
 
1-Serious punch is not casual.

2-Then you want to apply that to fieza who's casually Dwarf level and say he can beat all dwarf levels because he did it "casually" sorry to say this but you're making Saitam an exeption that's a little bit hypocritical.
 
@aza See the issue there is, where are you drawing the line? do we assume he can actually assume hes 1.1x faster than what we note on his profile? 2x, 5x, or 100x because its a casual feat? And i can assure you this is not just Saitama this applies to, I welcome you to the world of Bleach's pretimeskip where everyone who is anyone is Mach 29 despite everyone speedblitzing eachother over a dozen times, but thats how it gets treated. It's just lowballed to the lowest known value.

We lowball the chars to their best feat and that's what we use in versus battles. In Character saitama will be casual anyway. which is our standard battle assumptions, anyway.

Is it a perfect system? No, far from it. But it's just how it is
 
@Aimenaltair

1. Yes, it is. It's not entirely devoid of effort, but it's still casual. Boros even comments after the fight about how Saitama was still holding back. A point was made about how he was trying to get as good a fight as possible, but he was still just too strong.

2. First, I never said Saitama should beat all other 5-B characters. I even said anyone in his tier with much higher speed and decent abilities should still kick his ass. I said it's foolish to assume he cannot make up for an incredibly minor speed or power difference by getting serious.

Second, that logic IS applied to Frieza. Someone with a lower level Dwarf Star level feat and insufficient speed or hax will get destroyed, by him. That's also the entire reason his forms get progressively stronger. We didn't even rate his other forms as "At least High 5-A". We bumped him up two tiers. Saying Saitama should be able to at least go slightly faster or be slightly stronger is in no way hypocritical.

@Aizen

We don't always lowball characters to their best feats. See everyone in DBZ after First form Frieza and until Super Perfect Cell.

In fact, this isn't even saying Saitama should jump a tier for being casual, which would be incorrect. It's saying assuming his minimum power is his maximum power is a false assumption, which is part of the reason we even have ratings such as "At least". If we're going to say Saitama can be no faster and no stronger by any degree whatsoever compared to what he's shown, and then go on and add losses to characters due to them being slightly faster or slightly stronger, he shouldn't be put in VS battles at all, at least until we get a better grasp of his higher ends or the webcomic comes to a close.
 
Well Bumping Frieza to star level is not choice, he was stomping someone who's way above 10 times stronger than his first form, that's why he was bumped tiers above his high 5-A.
 
Aimenaltair said:
Well Bumping Frieza to star level is not choice, he was stomping someone who's way above 10 times stronger than his first form, that's why he was bumped tiers above his high 5-A.
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The difference between the lowest bounds of Small Star level and the highest bounds is ~50x. Most people are scaled up because it's what seems most accurate (something I agree with), not because there are better feats. In fact, by feats, Frieza's Dwarf Star+ attack would be the most impressive attack in canon DBZ, and it didn't even come directly from canon DBZ. There are times when logical boosts in power can and need to be made.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
@Aizen

We don't always lowball characters to their best feats. See everyone in DBZ after First form Frieza and until Super Perfect Cell.

In fact, this isn't even saying Saitama should jump a tier for being casual, which would be incorrect. It's saying assuming his minimum power is his maximum power is a false assumption, which is part of the reason we even have ratings such as "At least". If we're going to say Saitama can be no faster and no stronger by any degree whatsoever compared to what he's shown, and then go on and add losses to characters due to them being slightly faster or slightly stronger, he shouldn't be put in VS battles at all, at least until we get a better grasp of his higher ends or the webcomic comes to a close.
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We do always lowball it to their best showings for speed. if there is enough of a gap in AP you can get tiered up that way. that does not happen with speed

It usually works through a certain amount of characters you go through who are stronger before you eventually decide "yeah, they've gotta be this strong now, theres this many people stronger than him, it's justified". Dragon ball makes it easier with Power levels to go by, aswell.

Saitama does not have that luxury which is unfortunate.

Truthfully speaking, being "At least" Doesn't do too much for AP other than hes likely superior to the other planet level guy, and it does close to nothing for speed.

Also just incase theres a misunderstanding, i'm just pointing out the speed thing , the AP has much more versatility in that regard. Also his profile should have the at least 5-b,for whatever reason it seems to have been neglected.
 
LordAizenSama said:
We do always lowball it to their best showings for speed. if there is enough of a gap in AP you can get tiered up that way. that does not happen with speed

It usually works through a certain amount of characters you go through who are stronger before you eventually decide "yeah, they've gotta be this strong now, theres this many people stronger than him, it's justified". Dragon ball makes it easier with Power levels to go by, aswell.

Saitama does not have that luxury which is unfortunate.

Truthfully speaking, being "At least" Doesn't do too much for AP other than hes likely superior to the other planet level guy, and it does close to nothing for speed.

Also just incase theres a misunderstanding, i'm just pointing out the speed thing , the AP has much more versatility in that regard. Also his profile should have the at least 5-b,for whatever reason it seems to have been neglected.
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I was more arguing for AP, so guess I'll ignore that part. The only thing I was saying for speed is being like 1.5x faster than casual Saitama and the same tier doesn't guarantee victory.

Also not sure why the "At least" isn't before the 5-B on his profile.
 
Behause he Never has shown a planet level feat. The mere fact we put him at 5B in a likely scenario is already generous given we basically let him skip 2 tiers (moon and small planet)
 
Eh, the At least is a possibly, and it goes hand in hand with the planet level rating. if hes planet level he did it casually, hence the at least.
 
Isn't discussing matches involving Saitama is a bit pointless, considering how undefined his full strength is? He's never gone above being casual in any of his fights, and there have been no clues as to what his full power can do. The most to be said is that his power is solely based on physical ability, and I can see some losses coming from that, but, I just think it's a bit hard to talk about a character who is known to be far stronger than what they've shown..
 
Speedbump from Chinatown said:
Isn't discussing matches involving Saitama is a bit pointless, considering how undefined his full strength is? He's never gone above being casual in any of his fights, and there have been no clues as to what his full power can do. The most to be said is that his power is solely based on physical ability, and I can see some losses coming from that, but, I just think it's a bit hard to talk about a character who is known to be far stronger than what they've shown..
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Even if Saitama is truly "infinite" as the overhyped fans say, I don't think that he will go beyond High 3-A
 
My boy Chiaotzu wins. He's got the skills and raw power to beat Saitama without Suicidal Explosion. It'll be an entertaining match to watch tho.
 
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