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Saitama(current) VS Goku(current)

THE_EINSTEINER said:
"The effects of time and space still very much apply to Saitama, meaning he doesn't truly transcends the concepts, but rather, has a way to circumvent their limits."

What you just said is that Saitama usually is affected by Time and Space but he has found a way to Transcend them or their limits.
Click to expand...
Via an ability, but yes, precisely.
THE_EINSTEINER said:
"Again, it requires at least one future where Bloodlusted Saitama lasts more than 1E-70 seconds against Bloodlusted Goku.
Such a future is impossible."

False. It's not the fact that Saitama was "bloodlusted" (which simply mean being serious) that necessary can lead to such event.
Saitama never went Bloodlusted in such Timeline, but another Saitama from another potential timeline could appear anyway throught also a causal loop.
For instance, a Saitama from the Future can theoretically do the things we said while holding a device that came from such timeline, for example a video or any type of device that can lead Saitama to learn the technique again after reviewing the material (it can even be a record or a paper indication made by the future Saitama that Explain to the past Saitama what to do to beat Goku, how to time travel and to repeat the Same thing in the future; notice that the fusion happened only between the two Saitama, not the inorganic core of genos for example).

Since Saitama did not die because it was saved by a Saitama from the future and he still holding the device with the information and data from that future Timeline, now there is a probability Greater than 0 that the occured events can rehappen again because of that.
This is a Causal Loop Paradox, and because of the nature of Such paradox some things that are trapped in such loop may lack of causality.

Temporal paradox - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org


"There would need to be at least one reality where, during his fight with Goku, Future Saitama will consciously use his time travel to hit Goku. Such a timeline isn't possible"

Which is false, like i explained with the causal loop

"Current Saitama has no knowledge of his time travelling abilities.
Current Saitama has no way of getting said knowledge during a fight with Goku, as Garou is defeated in his timeline.
Current, and Future Saitama both wouldn't resort to such a tatic in character in no possibility unless Goku kills someone he cares about, something Goku will absolutely not do.

Thus, there would not be a Future Saitama travelling back in time, making an in character causality negation utterly impossible."

Wrong. Like i explained before a Saitama from the Future can have such knowledge and can pass it inderectly with an inorganic device (plus, Current Saitama don't need to have such knowledge to have a Future Saitama from another Timeline to spawn randomly without causality; notice that the previous events, like i said before, should have led to the Grandfather Paradox...which they didn't because these are the mecchanics that the author choose for Saitama Time Travel - it may also because Saitama Trascend the laws of Causality - )
Click to expand...

Let me see the requirements here:
  • At least one timeline where Saitama doesn't fight BL Goku (which would result in an instant loss)
  • At least one-same timeline where Saitama gets the knowledge of time traveling
  • At least one-same timeline where Saitama withholds the information that he lost to Goku in an alternative timeline.
  • At least one-same timeline where Saitama travels back in time to defeat Goku.
These all need to happen in one same timeline, chained together, in other for us to have a Future Saitama, with time travel, knowledgeable of his defeat in another timeline, and willing to going back to defeat Goku.

These events chained together aren't just improbable, some of the requirements are straight up impossible to happen. There will not be a future Saitama which saves present Saitama in a picosecond.
THE_EINSTEINER said:
"Didn't say Goku had it, just said it wasn't unavoidable by any means"

The only statement that we have from the author is that it was unavoidable.
Click to expand...
The author can say whatever he wants to say, we're not going to Ad Infinitum that, nor will we apply no limits fallacy.
He believes it's unavoidable? Too bad, it's not.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Via an ability, but yes, precisely.

Let me see the requirements here:
  • At least one timeline where Saitama doesn't fight BL Goku (which would result in an instant loss)
  • At least one-same timeline where Saitama gets the knowledge of time traveling
  • At least one-same timeline where Saitama withholds the information that he lost to Goku in an alternative timeline.
  • At least one-same timeline where Saitama travels back in time to defeat Goku.
These all need to happen in one same timeline, chained together, in other for us to have a Future Saitama, with time travel, knowledgeable of his defeat in another timeline, and willing to going back to defeat Goku.

These events chained together aren't just improbable, some of the requirements are straight up impossible to happen. There will not be a future Saitama which saves present Saitama in a picosecond.

The author can say whatever he wants to say, we're not going to Ad Infinitum that, nor will we apply no limits fallacy.
He believes it's unavoidable? Too bad, it's not.
Click to expand...
This why you cannot follow the logic, because you don't know how causal loops works and the concepts that i already explained to you before (you probably didn't watch the video or read the wiki)
In fact the causal loop address by itself all of your concerns:

1) At least one timeline where Saitama doesn't fight BL Goku (I'm not even sure what you meant with BL: Blue? Black? if the later it is probably irrelevant to the argument) can exist since because of reversal of causality it can always be a Timeline in which a future Saitama can intervene against a past version of Goku (effect precede the cause)

2) "At least one-same timeline where Saitama gets the knowledge of time traveling" Here we go, the statement that exposed the fact that you didn't understand how a causal loop works. The timeline in which Saitama gets the knowledge of Time Traveling is the Timelime in which future Saitama after dealing with Goku manage to pass indirectly such information to the Saitama of such Timeline.
The causal loop (like the video that i linked and you didn't watch explained) lead to particolar object or information to not have a clear original causality but they can still exist inside such causal loop (in fact there is a theory that the cause that create the universe is the universe itself).
Meaning there is always a timeline in which Saitama can know to Time Travel in Virtue of the available existence of a causal loop.
You see causality of the timelines only in a linear way instead of circular (your reasoning resonate with only the normal flow of causality, heck this is why you used the word "chained together"; in fact your rationale is limited with Cause in Timeline A lead to an Effect in Timeline B that Generate a different Cause in Timeline B that lead to an Effect in Timeline C, while denying of the actual possibility that a Time travel can lead to a scenario in which a Cause in Timeline A lead to an Effect in Timeline B that Generate a Cause in Timeline B that lead to an Effect to Timeline A that Generate the First mentioned Cause in Timeline A), this is why you cannot understand this concept.




(Watch them please)


3) "At least one-same timeline where Saitama withholds the information that he lost to Goku in an alternative timeline."
Already addressed in point 2, moving on.

4)"At least one-same timeline where Saitama travels back in time to defeat Goku."
Which can happen as described in point 2.

Essentially it took me 1 point to address virtually all of the concerns you brought up.

This scenario can all happen Just in virtue of the existence of the causal loops (which can logically happen in any kind of Time Travel)

"The author can say whatever he wants to say, we're not going to Ad Infinitum that, nor will we apply no limits fallacy.
He believes it's unavoidable? Too bad, it's not."

My argument here is different. I believe the reason indeed why the author stated "Reversal of Causality, Absolutely Unavoidable" is because the hit from Future Saitama appeared in that timeline only when the punch landed and the effect transpired before the cause.

So you need to explain to me how Goku can dodge an attack that can potentially appear also while already landing (since the effect is preceding its own future causality).

Also you forgot to address these questions:
<<If not what you are saying you need to explain what "circuventing the limits of time and space" mean, what Genos meant with "manipulating and Trascend Time, Space and Causality" and what is your definition of "Trascending" within the given context.>>
 
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the timeline will not be divided into two/more? since in dragon ball when you travel in time, the line branches so in reality Saitama is not killing goku from "his past"
 
Oliver_de_jesus said:
the timeline will not be divided into two/more? since in dragon ball when you travel in time, the line branches so in reality Saitama is not killing goku from "his past"
Click to expand...
It can also be a possibility, but the problem here is what happen if a Saitama from another Timeline (that should have been the future theoretically) intervene in the Timeline of reference (the one we are taking for reference).

For example, let's have a Timeline, in this case we call it Timeline 1.
Trunks from the future went back in Time to save his Timeline (that apperently didn't actually save because he just created another reality, meaning either he never actually reunite with the original Bulma/family under this theory and they will never see him again or he just traveled back indeed to his previous timeline), but he could still Kill someone or affect in different ways (which he did) Timeline 1, the timeline we have taken for reference and that we were following upon the arrival of Trunks from the future.

Notice tho, that from what Genos have said that this may be also a similar mecchanism of the timelines in OPM, tho Genos have also stated that it doesn't matter how many parrallel worlds exist (in reference indeed to such spliting of the event and the possible many worlds interpretation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation), in the worst case scenario Saitama can eventually resort to his ability to trascend time and space and trascend or manipulate the laws of causality.

At that point is only a matter of what timeline you take of reference, if a causal loop happen (which also would address many if your concerns since it would affect similar timelines to the ones of reference ad infinitum) and what it is your interpretation of the statements made between chapter 168 and 169 (expecially what mecchanics of time travel you apply; if a character as a main Hax have time travel, should we count as a victory if he kill his opponent by traveling backwards or not? ).
 
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THE_EINSTEINER said:
This why you cannot follow the logic, because you don't know how causal loops works and the concepts that i already explained to you before (you probably didn't watch the video or read the wiki)
In fact the causal loop address by itself all of your concerns:

1) At least one timeline where Saitama doesn't fight BL Goku (I'm not even sure what you meant with BL: Blue? Black? if the later it is probably irrelevant to the argument) can exist since because of reversal of causality it can always be a Timeline in which a future Saitama can intervene against a past version of Goku (effect precede the cause)

2) "At least one-same timeline where Saitama gets the knowledge of time traveling" Here we go, the statement that exposed the fact that you didn't understand how a causal loop works. The timeline in which Saitama gets the knowledge of Time Traveling is the Timelime in which future Saitama after dealing with Goku manage to pass indirectly such information to the Saitama of such Timeline.
The causal loop (like the video that i linked and you didn't watch explained) lead to particolar object or information to not have a clear original causality but they can still exist inside such causal loop (in fact there is a theory that the cause that create the universe is the universe itself).
Meaning there is always a timeline in which Saitama can know to Time Travel in Virtue of the available existence of a causal loop.
You see causality of the timelines only in a linear way instead of circular (your reasoning resonate with only the normal flow of causality, heck this is why you used the word "chained together"; in fact your rationale is limited with Cause in Timeline A lead to an Effect in Timeline B that Generate a different Cause in Timeline B that lead to an Effect in Timeline C, while denying of the actual possibility that a Time travel can lead to a scenario in which a Cause in Timeline A lead to an Effect in Timeline B that Generate a Cause in Timeline B that lead to an Effect to Timeline A that Generate the First mentioned Cause in Timeline A), this is why you cannot understand this concept.




(Watch them please)


3) "At least one-same timeline where Saitama withholds the information that he lost to Goku in an alternative timeline."
Already addressed in point 2, moving on.

4)"At least one-same timeline where Saitama travels back in time to defeat Goku."
Which can happen as described in point 2.

Essentially it took me 1 point to address virtually all of the concerns you brought up.

This scenario can all happen Just in virtue of the existence of the causal loops (which can logically happen in any kind of Time Travel)

"The author can say whatever he wants to say, we're not going to Ad Infinitum that, nor will we apply no limits fallacy.
He believes it's unavoidable? Too bad, it's not."

My argument here is different. I believe the reason indeed why the author stated "Reversal of Causality, Absolutely Unavoidable" is because the hit from Future Saitama appeared in that timeline only when the punch landed and the effect transpired before the cause.

So you need to explain to me how Goku can dodge an attack that can potentially appear also while already landing (since the effect is preceding its own future causality).

Also you forgot to address these questions:
<<If not what you are saying you need to explain what "circuventing the limits of time and space" mean, what Genos meant with "manipulating and Trascend Time, Space and Causality" and what is your definition of "Trascending" within the given context.>>
Click to expand...

"If not", I confirmed your first assumption was correct, thus, there is no need for me to address the "if not".

This is plain idiotic, you CANNOT argue for a Causal Loop because causality is not being tempered with in n given timeline.

You seem under the very strange fixation that the simple act of travelling back in time within a Multiverse Theory scenario would trigger such a concept, it would not.

There is an n number of possible realities that coexist within a Multiversal structure, we could not even argue that n = infinity too, but somehow you're under this completely asinine instance that a causal loop would simply happen due to the very existence of Saitama's hax, absolute bullshit. Your argument doesn't have any basis other than, "Hey... Causal Loops, they work like that. Why would they even be present in a Goku vs Saitama scenario?.... Uh, WATCH!!!"

Piss off
 
GodlyCharmander said:
"If not", I confirmed your first assumption was correct, thus, there is no need for me to address the "if not".

This is plain idiotic, you CANNOT argue for a Causal Loop because causality is not being tempered with in n given timeline.

You seem under the very strange fixation that the simple act of travelling back in time within a Multiverse Theory scenario would trigger such a concept, it would not.

There is an n number of possible realities that coexist within a Multiversal structure, we could not even argue that n = infinity too, but somehow you're under this completely asinine instance that a causal loop would simply happen due to the very existence of Saitama's hax, absolute bullshit. Your argument doesn't have any basis other than, "Hey... Causal Loops, they work like that. Why would they even be present in a Goku vs Saitama scenario?.... Uh, WATCH!!!"

Piss off
Click to expand...
"This is plain idiotic, you CANNOT argue for a Causal Loop because causality is not being tempered with in n given timeline."

Define what you mean being tempered within a given timeline

"You seem under the very strange fixation that the simple act of travelling back in time within a Multiverse Theory scenario would trigger such a concept, it would not."

Explain why a causal loop cannot exist.
Even in Many worlds interpretation a causal loop can always exist because the existence of other Universes may totally be irrelevant with the existence of other Universes in which the causal loop occur.

If there is a multiverse Theory, and a me from another timeline tell me to travel back in time in the future and explain me how to do it, and i travel back in time to a parallel world with the same exact variables of my own and i told to my own self to do that with the same exact words of my previous self, why a causal loop cannot occur?

There is nothing in the many worlds interpretation that prevent the very existence of causal loops, this is why the universe we are in can indeed be the consequence of a causal loop.

"Causal loop would simply happen due to the very existence of Saitama's hax, absolute bullshit"

Causal Loops can be a litteral consequence of Time Travel. It's not that deep bro. Calm down.
Insulting and malding about it will not make you seem more in the right.

"Your argument doesn't have any basis other than, "Hey... Causal Loops, they work like that. Why would they even be present in a Goku vs Saitama scenario?.... Uh, WATCH!!!""

I could litteraly make the most rational explaination and post 10 or more peer reviewed studies or journals about MWI and causal loops...you would still say that my argument does not have any basis (which indeed you will do)



In all of this you still didn't address this:

<<If not what you are saying you need to explain what "circuventing the limits of time and space" mean, what Genos meant with "manipulating and Trascend Time, Space and Causality" and what is your definition of "Trascending" within the given context.>>
 
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GodlyCharmander said:
Literally, this is just the equivalent of a dude who watches Vsauce and thinks he knows how Cardinals work.
Click to expand...
1) Good, because I don't watch Vsauce

2) I simply making an argument, it doesn't mean that i'm doing this to boast my ego or to think i'm a know-it-all (expecially since i fairly assume that this is not also my or your field of expertise). I'm basing my assumption based on the information that i have. As far as i know, there is litterally nothing that prevent the existence of causal loops even in the many world interpretation


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331149973_Causal_Loops_in_Time_Travel (same previous journal)


Time travel paradoxes, path integrals, and the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics

We consider two approaches to evading paradoxes in quantum mechanics with closed timelike curves. In a model similar to Politzer's, assuming pure states and using path integrals, we show that the problems of paradoxes and of unitarity violation are related; preserving unitarity avoids paradoxes...
journals.aps.org journals.aps.org

[2103.03173] The quantum mechanical notion of unobservable causal loop and the anthropic principle

arxiv.org

www.vesselproject.io

God in the Loop – Vessel Project

How a causal loop could shape existence.
www.vesselproject.io www.vesselproject.io



3) The problem here is that in a given infinite set of universes/timelines you can have also an infinite Set of universes that are trapped into a causal loop.
Because the set of universes and timeline that are trapped inside the causal loop is infinite at both ends, the causal loop can repeat itself without having the possibility to pinpoint other causality of the event beside the causal loop itself.

So technically, you can get caught in a loop where, at the end, someone always switches universes in which a same specific event (the one that for example in your reality happen 1 hour previous) happen, leading to his previous self to do it again after 1 hour, then it’s essentially a casual loop because you’re stuck in the same event over and over again.
In such case, you could just declare that either traveling back in time can affects all world lines if the timeline stays consistent with every single world line caught in a casual loop or perhaps a casual loop branches off from the regular world line (as many alternative timelines may created at each causal loops) and makes a little pocket dimension (meant as a group of timelines) where the loop happens while the rest of the other worlds continue to exist (since there will be always a timeline that follow the same dinamics of the events of the universe with the previous causal loop; the group of universes with an infinite number of causal loops without a prime cause besides them i was talking about)

Still waiting for this tho:

<<If not what you are saying you need to explain what "circuventing the limits of time and space" mean, what Genos meant with "manipulating and Trascend Time, Space and the laws of Causality" and what is your definition of "Trascending" within the given context.>>
 
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EndlessWords said:
Current Saitama kills current Goku by crushing him with building debris.
Click to expand...
v9zEkE.gif
 
Shubham_Sonsurkar said:
past goku dodges that effortlessly
Click to expand...
Even baby goku or his ancestors?
How can even present goku dodge a move that came from the future and doesn't exist in the present, with the effect of this attack preceding its cause, if goku fail even to dodge many attacks in the present?
Wasn't also the punch stated to be unavoidable (likely exactly because it was from an event of Reversal of Causality)? 🗿
 
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AwkguyDB said:
Goku of the Future holds on to Saitama while he goes to the past and the two Gokus curbstomp
Click to expand...
If this happen in a timeline where Saitama already won (since due to a causal loop the same event could have happen in that timeline) then there is no goku alive in that timeline to do that.🗿

Imagine this: a Saitama from the Future kill past goku while holding any object (paper, video, device, etc) with the information that explain to present Saitama how to Time Travel and that he have to redo again in the future while keep training to use his AD at his advantage.
Saitama from the current timeline, now becoming Future Saitama redo the same process.
Because in that timeline there is no Goku (since it was killed in the past by a reversal of causality event), then there is no Goku that can holds on Saitama and Time Travel back in time with him (because, you know, yet again, he died here).
The process repeat itself in an infinite causal loop.
This is just one of the many scenario in which Saitama can win a battle by using the laws of causality in its advantage (i can use other examples as well, time traveling + limitless potential is op)
 
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THE_EINSTEINER said:
Even baby goku or his ancestors?
How can even present goku dodge a move that came from the future and doesn't exist in the present, with the effect of this attack preceding its cause, if goku fail even to dodge many attacks in the present?
Wasn't also the punch stated to be unavoidable (likely exactly because it was from an event of Reversal of Causality)? 🗿
Click to expand...
never shown to go back that far in time plus you just gonna make a different timeline altogether by self bfr.....
 
Shubham_Sonsurkar said:
never shown to go back that far in time plus you just gonna make a different timeline altogether by self bfr.....
Click to expand...
True, but i can also argue that:

1)The time travel stopped only when Saitama Landed the punch

2) There is nothing that said in the wiki that Saitama can only travel on a limited time space and the main problem that in this case would be an exception to the no limits fallacy is that many characters that have time machines or time travel capabilities and traveled back in time are not considered to have limitations on how much they can time travel unless stated (for example, if it was never stated how much far back the Trunks Time machine can go, then you need to argue that the machine cannot travel 0,1 seconds prior the timeframe he landed)

3) In the manga it was stated that Saitama not only does not have limits that he can Transcend and manipulate Time, Space and the laws of causality, meaning it is not far fetched to assume it can do that

4) Theoretically, even if we lowball such feat to 5 minutes, He can simply report on the device that he will bring with him the information on how to time travel and remeber indirectly to the past Saitama of 5 minutes ago how to Time Travel another 5 minutes and repeat the process, giving him the opportunity to travel back in years🗿

5) The Timeline point can be debatable, expecially in the condition that a Saitama of another Future Timeline go Back and kill the Goku of the Timeline of reference (it can happen, since effect precede the cause; this is litterally what happened to Garou).
On this point there can be not only a discussion around which Time Travel dinamics should be take as reference, but also if killing a past Goku should be count as a victory.
If you think about it, killing a baby Goku using Time Travel mecchanics that lead to alter the same Timeline and killing a Baby Goku using Time Travel mecchanics that lead to another timeline have the same result: The dead of a weaker version of Goku that does not represent the current one.
So another debate here, on top of the previous ones, is if such action of characters that do that can be counted as a victory or a stalemate: If the entire abilities of a character is solely based on Time Travel and kill a weaker version of his opponent in the past and he remain in such Timeline, we should consider it a victory or a Stalemate?
 
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THE_EINSTEINER said:
True, but i can also argue that:

1)The time travel stopped only when Saitama Landed the punch

2) There is nothing that said in the wiki that Saitama can only travel on a limited time space and the main problem that in this case would be an exception to the no limits fallacy is that many characters that have time machines or time travel capabilities and traveled back in time are not considered to have limitations on how much they can time travel unless stated (for example, if it was never stated how much far back the Trunks Time machine can go, then you need to argue that the machine cannot travel 0,1 seconds prior the timeframe he landed)

3) In the manga it was stated that Saitama not only does not have limits that he can Transcend and manipulate Time, Space and the laws of causality, meaning it is not far fetched to assume it can do that

4) Theoretically, even if we lowball such feat to 5 minutes, He can simply report on the device that he will bring with him the information on how to time travel and remeber indirectly to the past Saitama of 5 minutes ago how to Time Travel another 5 minutes and repeat the process, giving him the opportunity to travel back in years🗿

5) The Timeline point can be debatable, expecially in the condition that a Saitama of another Future Timeline go Back and kill the Goku of the Timeline of reference (it can happen, since effect precede the cause; this is litterally what happened to Garou).
On this point there can be not only a discussion around which Time Travel dinamics should be take as reference, but also if killing a past Goku should be count as a victory.
If you think about it, killing a baby Goku using Time Travel mecchanics that lead to alter the same Timeline and killing a Baby Goku using Time Travel mecchanics that lead to another timeline have the same result: The dead of a weaker version of Goku that does not represent the current one.
So another debate here, on top of the previous ones, is if such action of characters that do that can be counted as a victory or a stalemate: If the entire abilities of a character is solely based on Time Travel and kill a weaker version of his opponent in the past and he remain in such Timeline, we should consider it a victory or a Stalemate?
Click to expand...
1) first statement means nothing since there is no strong evidence that he can time travel infinitely nor would it matter since he would still create another timeline.
2) There is no statement on the wiki that states Saitama can time travel infinitely either
3) Don't even bring stupid statements like an Idiot, Buu in the Manga called himself omnipotent so now is Goku Omnipotent+++?
4) another dumb statement since him bringing any device is not gonna do anything since the one he brought back was genos's heart which also act as a device to store information like a storage device, hence only Genos would know meaning bringing any other item is useless. In short your 4th point is a useless as well.
5) It means nothing since both Dragon Ball and OPM have different time travel mechanics


In the end you didn't made a single valid point and are only good at making huge paras, thnx for wasting my time with your stupid replies. Also if your gonna make stupid headcanons go make a damn crt or get it accepted or just don't bring it up since it's not gonna have a single shred of value.
 
Shubham_Sonsurkar said:
1) first statement means nothing since there is no strong evidence that he can time travel infinitely nor would it matter since he would still create another timeline.
2) There is no statement on the wiki that states Saitama can time travel infinitely either
3) Don't even bring stupid statements like an Idiot, Buu in the Manga called himself omnipotent so now is Goku Omnipotent+++?
4) another dumb statement since him bringing any device is not gonna do anything since the one he brought back was genos's heart which also act as a device to store information like a storage device, hence only Genos would know meaning bringing any other item is useless. In short your 4th point is a useless as well.
5) It means nothing since both Dragon Ball and OPM have different time travel mechanics


In the end you didn't made a single valid point and are only good at making huge paras, thnx for wasting my time with your stupid replies. Also if your gonna make stupid headcanons go make a damn crt or get it accepted or just don't bring it up since it's not gonna have a single shred of value.
Click to expand...
"1) first statement means nothing since there is no strong evidence that he can time travel infinitely nor would it matter since he would still create another timeline."

Debatable.
In the manga there are more statements that suggest that Saitama can do that rather that cannot.
It is stated by the author even in manga that Saitama have no limits, while garou states even in official translation that Saitama can copy techniques ("instant mastery is your specialty), surpass them and obtain god's power without borrowing from a god and Genos itself said that he was able to Trascend Time, Space and Causality.
Plus, in the official translations that came out it is stated that it wasn't Saitama that Traveled back in Time but it was the Flow of Time that was going backwards for Saitama because his particles were doing such movements (meaning as long his particles were doing such movements, the time would have gone backwards).
www.viz.com

VIZ: Read One-Punch Man, Chapter 166 Manga - Official Shonen Jump From Japan

Life gets pretty boring when you can beat the snot out of any villain with just one punch.
www.viz.com www.viz.com

"2) There is no statement on the wiki that states Saitama can time travel infinitely either"

And there is no Statement on the wiki that Goku can stay Super Sayan beyond a specific time period and that the Time machine of Bulma can travel 0,001 second prior the biggest Time Traveling feat the machine made. There will be many logical implications on many character at that point that would lead to assumptions that would became instead more irrational than not.

"3) Don't even bring stupid statements like an Idiot, Buu in the Manga called himself omnipotent so now is Goku Omnipotent+++?"

The problem is that Genos Statements is back-up by feats and the author statements, so it is more likely than not to be credible (especially since i believe it is the author that used Genos to explain what the hell was going on; notice that Genos saw everything and went on also by using the science of that Universe).
Indeed, my statement about the punch being unavoidable due to the intrinsic properties of the Reverse Causality rather than mere speed have being even more confirmed in the official translation ("And Reverse causality is impossible to dodge"):
www.viz.com

VIZ: Read One-Punch Man, Chapter 166 Manga - Official Shonen Jump From Japan

Life gets pretty boring when you can beat the snot out of any villain with just one punch.
www.viz.com www.viz.com

"4)another dumb statement since him bringing any device is not gonna do anything since the one he brought back was genos's heart which also act as a device to store information like a storage device, hence only Genos would know meaning bringing any other item is useless. In short your 4th point is a useless as well."

Bruh, it take 2 seconds for Saitama to do a video with the indication to watch it immediatly and where he explain how to Time Travel, to Punch Goku of the Past and to repeat the same thing that this Saitama did (plus he didn't brought back just Genos hurt, but also the gloves of his clothes as long as the dirt he had on his body, meaning he can bring stuff with him).

Imagine that you have the power to travel back, but each time you time travel back you lose your memory but you have the opportunity to bring some objects with you.
Wouldn't be advantagious for you to bring back with you something that can keep your memories and remind of your goals?
I think this is likely what you are going to do and will be actually pretty smart...unless you act dumb and you don't do that because you claim that this stuff is dumb a priori...

"5) It means nothing since both Dragon Ball and OPM have different time travel mechanics"

So why are you using Dragon Ball Time Travel mecchanics if the feats of Time Travel that Saitama shown use OPM Time Travel mecchanics ?

Plus, after Genos explaination i would argue that they may have more things in common that you would assume.

Also your answer doesn't actually answer this question (immagine that such character is also against Goku) :

<<If the entire abilities of a character is solely based on Time Travel and kill a weaker version of his opponent in the past and he remain in such Timeline (the Timelime where the weaker version of his opponent is killed, meaning i'm using time travel mecchanics similar to the ones of DB), we should consider it a victory or a Stalemate?>>

"In the end you didn't made a single valid point and are only good at making huge paras"

I mean, that is a bias on your part. Of course you would argue that, especially considering your counter arguments.

" Also if your gonna make stupid headcanons go make a damn crt or get it accepted or just don't bring it up since it's not gonna have a single shred of value."

Indeed, you essentially took inspiration from a previous reply to do an "original" roast.
I just listed what Saitama can indeed do.
It aint an headcannon.
You all litteraly did the same by even saying that Goku holds Saitama and ******** him.

Is saying that Goku punch Saitama and kill him is a headcanon?
So why saying that Saitama traveling in the past or reverse causality and kill Goku instead it is?
 
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It is stated by the author even in manga that Saitama have no limits, while garou states even in official translation that Saitama can copy techniques ("instant mastery is your specialty)
prove it^

most of your points are shitty head canon, not even gonna bother arguing you at this point
 
Shubham_Sonsurkar said:
It is stated by the author even in manga that Saitama have no limits, while garou states even in official translation that Saitama can copy techniques ("instant mastery is your specialty)
prove it^

most of your points are shitty head canon, not even gonna bother arguing you at this point
Click to expand...
Bruh, i litteraly linked the official translation in which Garou stated that💀

Garou perform that technique without explain too much because he knew that Saitama had instant mastery...and indeed Saitama shown even by feats that he had instant mastery ( or power mimicry in the wiki) by learning a God's Technique as soon it was performed.

Insulting or malding does not validate your points, it does the opposite effect
 
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