- 14,409
- 1,692
id say Hades should scale since his will stopped his universe from getting destroyed from Cronus who is 2A but i dont know about Athena
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Saint Seiya; Tier 2-B ~ High 2-A upgrades.
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
- Start date
- Status
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #42
Unless we count them as separate canons but still canon... Shouldn't his Multiversal+ feat scale to Athena? And especially Seiya who managed to do him harm? Possibly even God cloths?AstralKing7 said:
- 14,409
- 1,692
Hades i much stronger than both Athena and Seiya. Seiya would still scale but he wouldnt be as strong as Hades
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #44
That is true, Athena should still be stronger than even God cloth Seiya...? Unless we include miracles. The light novel says Athena is equal to Hades, but the biggest difference between her an the other Gods is her compassion, her love for all things living.. . there is also supporting evidence from Omega.. Which also shows she could step in between 2 AE's colliding to stop it if she had too...AstralKing7 said:
Oh which i remembered something the wailing wall that needed to be destroyed... its a little more controversial... but 2 AE's (or 6 gold saints) colliding equal an infinite multiplied power of 1 big bang.. so if all 12 gold saints do it to the wailing wall.. to beak a hole in it...
but wouldn't Hypnos scale to a God Cloth Seiya...? Seiya did hit him with an attack while in a hurry to rush past him, and hypnos was unharmed by it... iirc that is...
- 2,684
- 317
Seiya wasn't serious he just wanted to get out of there and get to Athena
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #46
Hypnos did effortlessly take care of Shun, and then Hyoga and Shiryu awakened God Cloths too. He kept repeeating "We are not equal even with your God Cloths." He was actually going to win aganist those 2. But because they already seen his attack once before. His "Eternal Drowisness" didn't affect them.
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #47
oh and in the anime.Hypnos did say he was stronger than them even with God Cloths.
- 2,684
- 317
Yeah I guess so
- 146
- 20
Athena and God cloth users would scale to hades, also remember they all survived multiple hits from him so to some degree definitely scale. Hypnos survived a very casual attack from seiya, and Shun went down do to hax not power, but he should still at lest scale above his brother.
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #52
I'd have to go back and find the chapter. I'm a bit busy atm.Archaron said:
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #53
Also, considering how the "big bang" of the verse created "space and time, along with the Universe." So any saint that has statements or feats of being "Universal" could become "Universal+."
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #55
Archaron said:
In Saint Seiya verse. The big bang gave birth to time, space, and matter.
Someone like Aries Shion who has a feat of "His cosmos is able to destroy the universe and reshape it into something else entirely!" should be Universal+ instead of Universal.
And someone like Virgo Shaka and Shijama who are comparable to the AE.
Aries Mu through the power of a miracle when fighting the titans created an infinitely expanding universe.
- 716
- 82
the example I gave about the difference between energy and creation of the big bang is still more logical do not you think? for example the big bangs of seiya with aldebaran and saga, if it were a literal would not be equal to the big bang that creates, but rather the big bang of energy specifically.
is only universal, there is no way to know what he meant by "totally different", and as I said BB energy /=/ BB creation
can show the scan of the "infinitely expanding"?
is only universal, there is no way to know what he meant by "totally different", and as I said BB energy /=/ BB creation
can show the scan of the "infinitely expanding"?
- 1
- 0
Well I dont see any problem with the this..
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #58
You can view the scans of Cronus earsing the multiverse here... https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/391759Archaron said:
the Aries Mu one... https://imgur.com/0Of9Ds
and... the Athena Exclamation "rivals the big bang that created the universe..." https://imgur.com/fAiSJYx
Thre is other scans of the AE i could go get..
- 716
- 82
I do not think that made of the cronus itself Multiversal. The scenes make it clear that he would fuse the past and future times of the earth and the size of the titans, causing it to collapse. Nothing is said about universes or continuous space-time.
Ah! of course, the miracle of the mu.
Big bang no Creational specifically.
Ah! of course, the miracle of the mu.
Big bang no Creational specifically.
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #60
https://imgur.com/a/JEejYjQ This link is for the cosmology of Saint Seiya.Archaron said:
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #61
I found new information on the Zeus vs Typhon fight from Episode G. Turns out there was 2 fights with Typhon. Zeus and the Olympians lost the first fight. The 11 remaining olympains fled to Egypt and Zeus was sealed. Zeus managed to somehow reverse the situation and Won the Second fight.
This does tie into Gigamatchie light novel as we are told there is 2 fights that take place but were only told that "Zeus fled"
but in Gigamatchie what i posted in the Google docs is.
Athena = Typhon (Destroyed his true Body and kept him sealed away with her own power after his defeat.)
Athena is said to be = Zeus whom is = to Hades whom is = Posidon.
Ultiamtely when it comes to Gods of equal strength fighting it would come down to who has better hax, and as Gigamatchie and Hades, along with Thanatos and Hypnos points out. Personaility traits can prevent a victory.
This does tie into Gigamatchie light novel as we are told there is 2 fights that take place but were only told that "Zeus fled"
but in Gigamatchie what i posted in the Google docs is.
Athena = Typhon (Destroyed his true Body and kept him sealed away with her own power after his defeat.)
Athena is said to be = Zeus whom is = to Hades whom is = Posidon.
Ultiamtely when it comes to Gods of equal strength fighting it would come down to who has better hax, and as Gigamatchie and Hades, along with Thanatos and Hypnos points out. Personaility traits can prevent a victory.
- 20,720
- 3,668
I dont get the powerscaling:
Athena = Typhon = Zeus
Athena = Hades
Hades = Poseidon.
My issue is Athena = Typhon literally making the other 11 olympians fleeing and Zeus facing Typhon in single combat... Useless as at least 4 of them would be as strong as Typhon.
Athena = Typhon = Zeus
Athena = Hades
Hades = Poseidon.
My issue is Athena = Typhon literally making the other 11 olympians fleeing and Zeus facing Typhon in single combat... Useless as at least 4 of them would be as strong as Typhon.
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #64
There was 2 fights with Typhon. Zues lost the first. He won the 2nd. I posted the scan above a short while ago.PaChi2 said:
also it would be an issue of Hax, or even personaility traits.
Athena also destroyed the True Body of Typhon, and it was her whom sealed Typhon away, She would at least need comparable power to him to keep him sealed away.
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #66
Well we lack significant details of how the battle happened. We only know a few important events. Typhon could have had help with others. For example, Gaia, and Tartarus are an unkown factor during that event. Did they thelp their Son, or not?
[Edit] Also, i didn't say Typhon is weaker. He is equal to about 4 of them that we know of. I plan on going through Episode G again to find more information. And like i said it could be an issue of him being more resistant to hax.
[Edit #2] Saint Seiya Gigamatchie came out before Episode G
"Saint Seiya Gigantomachia ( Þüû Úùÿ Õú½ µÿƒþƒó Òé« Òé¼ Òé¼ Òâ│ Òâê Òâ× Òé¡ ÒéóSeinto Gigantomakia Semi ? ) Is anovel inspired by themanga andanime Saint Seiya , known as The Knights of the Zodiac , is written byTatsuya Hamasaki under the supervision ofMasami Kurumada , author of the original work. It is located between the confrontation against Poseidón and the War with Hades. It was published byShüeisha in the Jump Books collection, published in Japan on August 23, 2002. It consists of two volumes called:Mei's Chapter ( þøƒ Òü« þ½á Mei no shō ? )andBlood Chapter(ÞíÇ Òü« þ½áChi no shō ? ) ."
Saint Seiya Episode G release dates can be found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Saint_Seiya_Episode.G_chapters
[Edit 3] For anyone that says only Hades should get Multiversal+ Status.. please remember that There has been innumerable amount of Holy Wars between Athena and Hades. Also between Posideon (probably spelled wrong.) and Athena.
[Edite #4] In Gigamatchie Light Novel. It appears that there were other Giants born from the union of Gaia and Taraturs. Typhoon was simply the strongest.
[Edit] Also, i didn't say Typhon is weaker. He is equal to about 4 of them that we know of. I plan on going through Episode G again to find more information. And like i said it could be an issue of him being more resistant to hax.
[Edit #2] Saint Seiya Gigamatchie came out before Episode G
"Saint Seiya Gigantomachia ( Þüû Úùÿ Õú½ µÿƒþƒó Òé« Òé¼ Òé¼ Òâ│ Òâê Òâ× Òé¡ ÒéóSeinto Gigantomakia Semi ? ) Is anovel inspired by themanga andanime Saint Seiya , known as The Knights of the Zodiac , is written byTatsuya Hamasaki under the supervision ofMasami Kurumada , author of the original work. It is located between the confrontation against Poseidón and the War with Hades. It was published byShüeisha in the Jump Books collection, published in Japan on August 23, 2002. It consists of two volumes called:Mei's Chapter ( þøƒ Òü« þ½á Mei no shō ? )andBlood Chapter(ÞíÇ Òü« þ½áChi no shō ? ) ."
Saint Seiya Episode G release dates can be found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Saint_Seiya_Episode.G_chapters
[Edit 3] For anyone that says only Hades should get Multiversal+ Status.. please remember that There has been innumerable amount of Holy Wars between Athena and Hades. Also between Posideon (probably spelled wrong.) and Athena.
[Edite #4] In Gigamatchie Light Novel. It appears that there were other Giants born from the union of Gaia and Taraturs. Typhoon was simply the strongest.
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #67
lets forget about the light novel saying they are all equal..
Lets focus on Multiversal+ Hades due to him surviving, and fending off Cronuses Multiverse destroying attack..
Which would Scale to Athena due to how many Holy Wars they had in history, which would scale to other characters..
we also have the Saint Seiya Omega feat where Athena blocked a blast from the Holy Sword of time which controls time, and space to an infinite degree.
Idk if this sent before.. So i will type it again..
Lets focus on Multiversal+ Hades due to him surviving, and fending off Cronuses Multiverse destroying attack..
Which would Scale to Athena due to how many Holy Wars they had in history, which would scale to other characters..
we also have the Saint Seiya Omega feat where Athena blocked a blast from the Holy Sword of time which controls time, and space to an infinite degree.
Idk if this sent before.. So i will type it again..
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #69
I don't see it as an outlier considering all the other evidence supporting it.
Hades would of had to protect his Underworld through his Divine Will when Cronus was destroying the multiverse. If we accept that Hades universes he supports are apart of the same Multiverse not outside of it that is.
Perhaps the biggest difference between them is that Cronus was sealed for who knows how many years while Hades had free reign to get stronger through who knows what means.
I can post feats of what the "Divine Will" is if needed..
but the talk about Cronus earsing the multiverse can be seen here. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/391759
Saint Seiya cosmology can be seen here. https://imgur.com/a/JEejYjQ
Hades would of had to protect his Underworld through his Divine Will when Cronus was destroying the multiverse. If we accept that Hades universes he supports are apart of the same Multiverse not outside of it that is.
Perhaps the biggest difference between them is that Cronus was sealed for who knows how many years while Hades had free reign to get stronger through who knows what means.
I can post feats of what the "Divine Will" is if needed..
but the talk about Cronus earsing the multiverse can be seen here. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/391759
Saint Seiya cosmology can be seen here. https://imgur.com/a/JEejYjQ
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #71
Considering how Cronus had a vendetta aganist the Olympians especially Zeus its likely he attempted to destroy it. He did seem helluva surprised to see Hades as well wasn't he? Perhaps because he survived it?
- 20,720
- 3,668
Well, you see, this is all speculation. Cronus giving his power to Hades is not.
Its the best fact you can use to support 2-A Olympians. However, it wouldnt scale to regular Athena because it doesnt make sense:
1) they warred for ages. Supposedly equals.
2) Hades suddenly is granted a massive power boost.
3) Still equals during the 20th century?
Its the best fact you can use to support 2-A Olympians. However, it wouldnt scale to regular Athena because it doesnt make sense:
1) they warred for ages. Supposedly equals.
2) Hades suddenly is granted a massive power boost.
3) Still equals during the 20th century?
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #73
"First I'd like to direct you here where Saint Seiya Omega is accepted as canon.
Time and Space. Zero and Infinity. || This is the Holy Sword of Time. || This is the ultimate holy sword that control each of those concepts to an infinite degree. || Athena tanked an attack from this sword. || While she was massively weakened."
Saint Seiya Omega is a Time Skip after Apollo, and After Hades arc. Athena was later seen tanking a blast from a Sword that was Orginally Saturns' which he then fused other Swords of equal power into it to make his Schythe.
Which I made a post about Saturn here. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1713198
We also have the case of the Wailing Wall/Wall of Lametation.
"These are the new Viz translation versio. || "The destructive force wouldn't be merely twice of that Athena Execution/Exclamation. It could multiply exponentially. " || This is what the OG classic series says. Which can be read here.
|| "if two athena exclamations - two big bangs - collide their destructive force will not be multiplied by 2, or 3, but it will be multiplied infinitely! " || The big bang gave birth to both Space and Time with the creation of the universe for the Saint Seiya verse. || Naturally Athena herself scales above this Shadow Technique. That is the reason why they named it after her. Now, we have an instance of Shaka and Shijma doing something similar.
|| https://imgur.com/W3wSPNF || https://imgur.com/BUXLq0 || https://imgur.com/GQXCVgQ || https://imgur.com/9tJgGum You may fact check this here. https://********.org/chapter/158461/1 She should be far superior by a massive margin to the likes of Shaka and Shijma. || I would like to point out that the Infinite multiplier, and the Innumerable worlds being created were the result of the collision of these immense powers. Not because each one of them are capable of doing such a feat by themselves. It is only the result of attack stalemating."
2 Athena Excalamations colliding has an Expotential, or possibly infinite multiplied power.
The Wailing Wall/ Wall of Lametation took the power of all 12 Gold Saints focusing their cosmos to a single point, I.E Aioros's arrow, to breach a wall in the wall that was supported through Hades Divine Will. That's also not factoring in the stats of each Gold Saint..
Iirc i think that was the first time since the age of myth that a whole* happened in that wall. According to classic series.
Also, the Dagger Seiya used to Hurt Saturn we later learn in Episode G. That Cronus created it.
I have no idea how this will render so i may end up deleting it.
[Edit] Also Hades with Cronus'es Dunamis is featless, and He didn't get all of it as we also Learn pontos was stealing Cronuses Dunamis.
[Edit#2] Time frame and links to read the mangas and for the anime are given for fact checking in the pictures.
[Edit #3] just saying there is still other feats that can be considered which could make it consistent...
Time and Space. Zero and Infinity. || This is the Holy Sword of Time. || This is the ultimate holy sword that control each of those concepts to an infinite degree. || Athena tanked an attack from this sword. || While she was massively weakened."
Saint Seiya Omega is a Time Skip after Apollo, and After Hades arc. Athena was later seen tanking a blast from a Sword that was Orginally Saturns' which he then fused other Swords of equal power into it to make his Schythe.
Which I made a post about Saturn here. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1713198
We also have the case of the Wailing Wall/Wall of Lametation.
"These are the new Viz translation versio. || "The destructive force wouldn't be merely twice of that Athena Execution/Exclamation. It could multiply exponentially. " || This is what the OG classic series says. Which can be read here.
|| "if two athena exclamations - two big bangs - collide their destructive force will not be multiplied by 2, or 3, but it will be multiplied infinitely! " || The big bang gave birth to both Space and Time with the creation of the universe for the Saint Seiya verse. || Naturally Athena herself scales above this Shadow Technique. That is the reason why they named it after her. Now, we have an instance of Shaka and Shijma doing something similar.
|| https://imgur.com/W3wSPNF || https://imgur.com/BUXLq0 || https://imgur.com/GQXCVgQ || https://imgur.com/9tJgGum You may fact check this here. https://********.org/chapter/158461/1 She should be far superior by a massive margin to the likes of Shaka and Shijma. || I would like to point out that the Infinite multiplier, and the Innumerable worlds being created were the result of the collision of these immense powers. Not because each one of them are capable of doing such a feat by themselves. It is only the result of attack stalemating."
2 Athena Excalamations colliding has an Expotential, or possibly infinite multiplied power.
The Wailing Wall/ Wall of Lametation took the power of all 12 Gold Saints focusing their cosmos to a single point, I.E Aioros's arrow, to breach a wall in the wall that was supported through Hades Divine Will. That's also not factoring in the stats of each Gold Saint..
Iirc i think that was the first time since the age of myth that a whole* happened in that wall. According to classic series.
Also, the Dagger Seiya used to Hurt Saturn we later learn in Episode G. That Cronus created it.
I have no idea how this will render so i may end up deleting it.
[Edit] Also Hades with Cronus'es Dunamis is featless, and He didn't get all of it as we also Learn pontos was stealing Cronuses Dunamis.
[Edit#2] Time frame and links to read the mangas and for the anime are given for fact checking in the pictures.
[Edit #3] just saying there is still other feats that can be considered which could make it consistent...
- 716
- 82
I still want the Cronos AP Multiversal scan. and if you send the matthew thread again, it will not do much good, I've already said that it's only universal + and that multiversal is a lack of interpretation.TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Hades would of had to protect his Underworld through his Divine Will when Cronus was destroying the multiverse. If we accept that Hades universes he supports are apart of the same Multiverse not outside of it that is.
Again, I want the scan that says that the attack of cronos reached the underworld and not only the dimension of the titans and the planet earth.
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #75
I provided you with a link as well to understand the Saint Seiya Cosmology. https://imgur.com/a/JEejYjQArcharon said:
Past, present, and future = Alternate worlds.
Which we also learn there is an infinite number of these worlds. https://imgur.com/a/GPLSP
- 716
- 82
Again... I already said that I do not need scans of cosmology, I already know the whole verse.TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Paradox speaks of the infinite ramifications of possibilities that a single universe and timeline can have, I see nothing of infinite universes there, only infinite "possibilities."
- 6,300
- 1,593
- Thread starter
- #77
Maybe i should explain in detail.
Episode G assassins follows the same multiverse mechanics as Saint Seiya Omega.
"Many different futures and Connected worlds may exist in a Universe."
"Fact is I belong to a different time period ."
Keywords to take note of are: Future, and Time period.
For Chronos of Next Dimension: "Past and Future Connect here ."
"Independent of World, or of Time, in any dimension that is. "
Keywords are: World, or of time, in any dimension.
"I have went through Worlds, History, and through time... "
Keywords are: Worlds, History, and Time.
Episode G assassins just like Omega also states there is Infinite possibilities .
"I have crossed time, Universes, and even Dimensions ."
Keywords are: Time, universes, and even dimensions.
In Saint Seiya Omega, The Gold Saint of Cancer, Schiller, confirms that other worlds exist besides the present one in Saint Seiya Omega. This further validats Paradoxes/Integra's monolouge.
"Your lying! This is an Illusion! "
"This future is impossible !."
Keyword to take note of is: Future.
"one of the futures after a divergence. "
Keyword to take note of: Future.
"No, It does exist. " Paradox confirms they do exist. She confirmed that these alternate futures do exist. Saint Seiya follows the same Cosmology as the Next Dimension, and Assassins.
Saturn's "End of Time" dimension. Just like Chronos it is repeated several time to be "A Space that lays beyond time. " Other lanuages say its a space that transcend time.
and just like Chronos. It is a place where Past, present, and future overlap [2 and connect [2].]
In summary; What Cronus really was desroying was every past, present, and future alternate reality/Universe.
"Acabei de destruir a Adamas Psammos que se encontra no labirinto de Cronos. Minha ampulheta que controla o tempo, sem ela... As horas saem de controle. O passado e o futuro, tanto daqui como da terra, se confundem... E tudo cai no mais terrivel caos..."
Meaning:
"I have just destroyed the Adamas Psammos which was inside the Labyrinth of Cronus. My hourglass which controls time, without it... The passing of the hours loses all control. The past and future, both of here and of Earth, are twisted... And all fall into the most terrible chaos."
Keywords: Past and future both here and of Earth.
Episode G assassins follows the same multiverse mechanics as Saint Seiya Omega.
"Many different futures and Connected worlds may exist in a Universe."
"Fact is I belong to a different time period ."
Keywords to take note of are: Future, and Time period.
For Chronos of Next Dimension: "Past and Future Connect here ."
"Independent of World, or of Time, in any dimension that is. "
Keywords are: World, or of time, in any dimension.
"I have went through Worlds, History, and through time... "
Keywords are: Worlds, History, and Time.
Episode G assassins just like Omega also states there is Infinite possibilities .
"I have crossed time, Universes, and even Dimensions ."
Keywords are: Time, universes, and even dimensions.
In Saint Seiya Omega, The Gold Saint of Cancer, Schiller, confirms that other worlds exist besides the present one in Saint Seiya Omega. This further validats Paradoxes/Integra's monolouge.
"Your lying! This is an Illusion! "
"This future is impossible !."
Keyword to take note of is: Future.
"one of the futures after a divergence. "
Keyword to take note of: Future.
"No, It does exist. " Paradox confirms they do exist. She confirmed that these alternate futures do exist. Saint Seiya follows the same Cosmology as the Next Dimension, and Assassins.
Saturn's "End of Time" dimension. Just like Chronos it is repeated several time to be "A Space that lays beyond time. " Other lanuages say its a space that transcend time.
and just like Chronos. It is a place where Past, present, and future overlap [2 and connect [2].]
In summary; What Cronus really was desroying was every past, present, and future alternate reality/Universe.
"Acabei de destruir a Adamas Psammos que se encontra no labirinto de Cronos. Minha ampulheta que controla o tempo, sem ela... As horas saem de controle. O passado e o futuro, tanto daqui como da terra, se confundem... E tudo cai no mais terrivel caos..."
Meaning:
"I have just destroyed the Adamas Psammos which was inside the Labyrinth of Cronus. My hourglass which controls time, without it... The passing of the hours loses all control. The past and future, both of here and of Earth, are twisted... And all fall into the most terrible chaos."
Keywords: Past and future both here and of Earth.
- 716
- 82
You are interpreting the feat of cronus in the wrong way. What Adamas Psammos did, was to merge the past and the future with the present, resulting in different times of the earth at the present time.
Original: É uma horda de almas pensam que voltaram ao mundo, por causa da interferência do tempo sobre este planeta...
Translate: It is a horde of souls think they have returned to the world, because of the interference of time on this planet...
If you think that it has reached all realities, dimensions or whatever, it is not so, it is only universal + to reach the dimension of the titans that is a universe, and the planet earth.
Conclusion. The feat of the cronus is only universal +, it is not as if he had brought universes, worlds, and etc. of the present and future earth, no. is simply parts of the past in certain areas of the earth, other areas with future, and only. is just a planetary level temporal anomaly.
Original: É uma horda de almas pensam que voltaram ao mundo, por causa da interferência do tempo sobre este planeta...
Translate: It is a horde of souls think they have returned to the world, because of the interference of time on this planet...
If you think that it has reached all realities, dimensions or whatever, it is not so, it is only universal + to reach the dimension of the titans that is a universe, and the planet earth.
Conclusion. The feat of the cronus is only universal +, it is not as if he had brought universes, worlds, and etc. of the present and future earth, no. is simply parts of the past in certain areas of the earth, other areas with future, and only. is just a planetary level temporal anomaly.
- 1
- 1
Another downgrader
- Status
